Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...Matthew 28:18-20

Who are CLAIMING that they who BELIEVE in Christ and are SAVED, are the ones who truly OBEY?

Why do they attack those who OBEY Christ's command to teach OBEDIENCE to his commands instead of teaching OBEDIENCE to His commands as the verses CLEARLY state?

It's because they do not really BELIEVE Christ who spoke those words and their defiance proves it. They would rather BELIEVE and OBEY FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES....for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. John 12:42-43

The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you to the point of getting them banned to SUPPRESS THE TRUTH which no NOSAS ever did.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21[

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:15-18
You are a deceiver Fran...it means exactly what it meant...they were never saved and then lost it...that is your embellishment just like the word NOT in the garden.....and you have no honesty or integrity.....and very very deceitful....!! Did you repent for lying openly when I asked if you had been banned before and said No..........

Not gonna give you too many more chances to come clean.....you are deceiving the whole site!!!!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Except that you do not teach anything in the Bible and this is more than evident.
Since you have been preaching your doctrine here,
the one thing that comes through loud and clear is that you nullify the work of the
cross, put the work of Jesus to open shame by teaching His work was not sufficient to save and replace it with your work
( cleverly renamed obedience).
You do not teach anything above in this statement from the bible, it is just a statement that is totally
inaccurate. Being saved through repentance and faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins is the reason
Jesus came to this earth to show us the way.
Do you hate obedience because then you hate God and His ways, which implies you are His enemy?
No sheep of Jesus does not listen follow or obey, they do it all.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
So we have to, or our father will kick us out? Come on, Tell us what kind of God you think we have
The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:46

A fool in his heart will say I am safe no matter what.
A wise man will say, if the Lord has declared he will destroy a servant who crosses Him, I will make sure
I do not cross Him.

Paul put it like this

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Timothy 4:7-8

We are servant of our King to whom we owe a great debt and to whom it is a privilege to serve
with our whole hearts and complete commitment.

I do not expect unbelievers to take any notice of Jesus and His words, but to my brothers and
sisters in Christ, God stands with His people who know the Kingdom is founded on love and
righteousness and walking in it. Amen.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Except that you do not teach anything in the Bible and this is more than evident.

Since you have been preaching your doctrine here,

the one thing that comes through loud and clear is that you nullify the work of the

cross, put the work of Jesus to open shame by teaching His work was not sufficient to save and replace it with your work
( cleverly renamed obedience).
...As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain.

... For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; FOR THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL. Isaiah 5:20-24

...If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? Hebrews 10:26-29
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
You are a deceiver Fran...it means exactly what it meant...they were never saved and then lost it...that is your embellishment just like the word NOT in the garden.....and you have no honesty or integrity.....and very very deceitful....!! Did you repent for lying openly when I asked if you had been banned before and said No..........

Not gonna give you too many more chances to come clean.....you are deceiving the whole site!!!!!
What is your position on obedience dcon?
You say the main line christian churchs have it all wrong. Over obedience and walking like Jesus?
You love to call others deceitful, lying openly, no honesty or integrity, except you fail to show it here.
But hey, if there is no law there is just lawlessness, so anything goes ..... :devilish:
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You do not teach anything above in this statement from the bible, it is just a statement that is totally
inaccurate. Being saved through repentance and faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins is the reason
Jesus came to this earth to show us the way.
Do you hate obedience because then you hate God and His ways, which implies you are His enemy?
No sheep of Jesus does not listen follow or obey, they do it all.
This is not the Gospel, you have the wrong starting point of what the cross accomplished for those who are believers.

The Gospel is being persuaded that the work of Jesus is the necessary and efficacious propitiation for our sins. We trust in Him to have paid the debt in full on our behalf.

We recognize we owe a debt because of sin and we are persuaded that we cannot earn eternal life by our own merits.

The very fact that you state there is more we have to do receive/keep the gift of salvation makes His work in-efficacious for the propitiation of sin and the payment of debt.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
This is not the Gospel, you have the wrong starting point of what the cross accomplished for those who are believers.

The Gospel is being persuaded that the work of Jesus is the necessary and efficacious propitiation for our sins. We trust in Him to have paid the debt in full on our behalf.

We recognize we owe a debt because of sin and we are persuaded that we cannot earn eternal life by our own merits.

The very fact that you state there is more we have to do receive/keep the gift of salvation makes His work in-efficacious for the propitiation of sin and the payment of debt.
I am not discussing a point. I am testifying to a spiritual reality in my heart demonstrated by
scripture.

The spirit fell on the gentiles when they repented and put thier faith in Jesus.
This is what preaching is like. You call people to repent of their sins, to trust Jesus to forgive them
and guide them through to life eternal.

Somewhere along the line you have lost conviction of sin and walking in Christs ways.
You have your own reasons and your justifications, it is just not the gospel preached by christians or the apostles.

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26:20

The truth is about those who reject the gospel is they do not know Jesus.
What is stunning is church people have become immune to conviction of sin, and would rather
stay bound to sin and death than walk in love, forgiveness and Christs victory.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You call people to repent of their sins, to trust Jesus to forgive them
and guide them through to life eternal.
Wrong again, I written it out very clearly.

It is striking to remember that the Gospel According to John, the gospel of belief, does not use the word repent even once. And yet John surely had many opportunities to use it in the events of our Lord’s life which he recorded. It would have been most appropriate to use repent or repentance in the account of the Lord’s conversation with Nicodemus. But believe/faith is the word used (John 3:12, 15).[28]

Faith alone is what saves
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You make a lot of assumptions about others and yet put yourself above reproach.

Nothing more to say....movin on.

I am not discussing a point. I am testifying to a spiritual reality in my heart demonstrated by
scripture.

The spirit fell on the gentiles when they repented and put thier faith in Jesus.
This is what preaching is like. You call people to repent of their sins, to trust Jesus to forgive them
and guide them through to life eternal.

Somewhere along the line you have lost conviction of sin and walking in Christs ways.
You have your own reasons and your justifications, it is just not the gospel preached by christians or the apostles.

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26:20

The truth is about those who reject the gospel is they do not know Jesus.
What is stunning is church people have become immune to conviction of sin, and would rather
stay bound to sin and death than walk in love, forgiveness and Christs victory.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
This is not the Gospel, you have the wrong starting point of what the cross accomplished for those who are believers.

The Gospel is being persuaded that the work of Jesus is the necessary and efficacious propitiation for our sins. We trust in Him to have paid the debt in full on our behalf.

We recognize we owe a debt because of sin and we are persuaded that we cannot earn eternal life by our own merits.

The very fact that you state there is more we have to do receive/keep the gift of salvation makes His work in-efficacious for the propitiation of sin and the payment of debt.
...“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I KNOW THAT HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50

It is Jesus who instructed His disciples to TEACH obedience unto all nations because it is His Father's commnd.

Are we supposed to WALK as Jesus did...who walked in OBEDIENCE to His Father's commands?

Are we DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN?

Who do you OBEY?

... Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” John 8:42-47

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You are a deceiver Fran...it means exactly what it meant...they were never saved and then lost it...that is your embellishment just like the word NOT in the garden.....and you have no honesty or integrity.....and very very deceitful....!! Did you repent for lying openly when I asked if you had been banned before and said No..........

Not gonna give you too many more chances to come clean.....you are deceiving the whole site!!!!!
I did not know this. :(
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
I did not know this. :(
Hi UunderGrace, God'sGrace101 aka "Fran" was banned and returned probably with a new IP address so that Christianchat.com would not recognize her true identity and presto she is back with a new identity which is now God'sGrace101. She is now deceiving the entire forum and nothing can be done to stop her except people like you and I can make known her true identity.

She has mocked the system and will not admit her true identity -- FollowHisSteps also did the same thing as Fran and his former screen name was PeterJens, remember. These people should not have a platform like this forum to promote their counterfeit gospel, so now you know.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Hi UunderGrace, God'sGrace101 aka "Fran" was banned and returned probably with a new IP address so that Christianchat.com would not recognize her true identity and presto she is back with a new identity which is now God'sGrace101. She is now deceiving the entire forum and nothing can be done to stop her except people like you and I can make known her true identity.

She has mocked the system and will not admit her true identity -- FollowHisSteps also did the same thing as Fran and his former screen name was PeterJens, remember. These people should not have a platform like this forum to promote their counterfeit gospel, so now you know.
Hi TT,

I did not realize she had denied who she was, it really cannot be minimized can it, especially in light of the "be good" to be saved message they preach.

Yes, some days it does get very had to take the constant preaching at us that we (those that preach the real Gospel) are a bunch of "disobeyers" I guess that is not really a word :unsure: but it fits.

The noun hypocrite really comes to mind.:(

I see enough of this at work and then I come here and I have to deal with it again:(

Thank you for elaborating.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Watching a live news feed from an attack on 2 mosques in Christchurch New Zealand....50 shots fired, so far 9 dead up to 50 wounded....2 to 3 shooters....30 page manifesto, supposedly an Australian man.....details sketchy and not fully known....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Watching a live news feed from an attack on 2 mosques in Christchurch New Zealand....50 shots fired, so far 9 dead up to 50 wounded....2 to 3 shooters....30 page manifesto, supposedly an Australian man.....details sketchy and not fully known....
My... how horrible :(:(
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
I'm not rich like that to where I give feasts.
I see you conveniently ignored the part where Jesus said a "dinner" or a "supper".

But, that's to be expected from one who is desperate to uphold the sham that he has stopped sinning.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
Watching a live news feed from an attack on 2 mosques in Christchurch New Zealand....50 shots fired, so far 9 dead up to 50 wounded....2 to 3 shooters....30 page manifesto, supposedly an Australian man.....details sketchy and not fully known....
Just saw the video the shooter live streamed on Facebook.

Absolutely satanic.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Hi TT,

I did not realize she had denied who she was, it really cannot be minimized can it, especially in light of the "be good" to be saved message they preach.

Yes, some days it does get very had to take the constant preaching at us that we (those that preach the real Gospel) are a bunch of "disobeyers" I guess that is not really a word :unsure: but it fits.

The noun hypocrite really comes to mind.:(

I see enough of this at work and then I come here and I have to deal with it again:(

Thank you for elaborating.
Amen UnderGrace, some people refuse to talk to these people because they are hypocrites.

Here are a few alternative examples of what it means to be "a hypocrite":

pretender, fraud, faker, dissembler, deceiver, casuist, charlatan, poser, pharisee, bigot, quack, tartuffe, backslider, whited sepulcher, sham, actor, cheat, informer, trickster, one given to hypocrisy, sophist, mountebank, adventurer, confidence man, malingerer, humbug, swindler, informer, knave, ...
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
I see you conveniently ignored the part where Jesus said a "dinner" or a "supper".

But, that's to be expected from one who is desperate to uphold the sham that he has stopped sinning.
Give the scripture reference.