Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That scripture proves what I have been saying.

When Paul says 'not of works', he is speaking about the purification works SUCH AS CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH.
Nope.

He is saying not of works (a work is something one does to EARN something) and paul even said, that if we were saved by works, we can boast.

That would go for ALL works. Not just works of the law..(PS the only work of the law which could cause forgiveness was the sacrifice, done by the high priest). So works of the law (people did themselves) could never save anyone anyway.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
God says love IS obeying His commands.
God says the whole law is about loving.
No
God said love is HOW we obey his commands
And he said LOVE FULFILLS the law

Again, I do not know where you get your informtion from, But you were not told right..
There is no dispute here. You are saying the same things using different words.
The mentality is creating a dispute where it is just a projection.
Kids do this where one says one side, and the other, the other side. Both parties
get so used to it, when they agree they assume they do not.

Love is a reality in our hearts and also a choice to forgive and let animosity go.
It is also to see the good points of an individual and ignore their weaknesses.
Lastly it is God working in our hearts to change who we are and how we interact.

I have felt this happen to me a few times, reaching out to the Lord to find a way through
in the Spirit, and the Lord in His grace, helping me get there. To which I always say, Amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Philippians 3

No Confidence in the Flesh

1 Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.


Excellent scripture to PROVE MORE of what I have been saying.

The 'not of works' is about the purification works of the law like circumcision.
Lol

No this does not prove your point.

Circumcision was given to JEWS ONLY and it PRE-DATED the law.


Circumcision never purified anyone. The law said the shedding of blood ONLY could purify people.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am trusting Jesus.

I am trusting what Jesus says will happen if I do what he says to do.

We have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.
No, Your trusting in your works. Your tryign to save yourself

If you trusted what jesus said, you would eat the food which God said he would give you, and you would have eternal life.


God said those who obey are saved 9as apposed who ar enot saved who do nto obey)

God never said we must be obedient to be saved, He woudl contradict himself.

The penalty of sin is death,

Thus ONLY DEATH can redeem us of sin (all sin)

The penalty is not to go to church, to be baptised, To follow Gods commands, or any act of righteousness.. So doing those things WILL NOT REDEEEM SIN.

You have not been trained by the law man, you need to go back and study moses 101.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...Matthew 28:18-20

Who are CLAIMING that they who BELIEVE in Christ and are SAVED, are the ones who truly OBEY?

Why do they attack those who OBEY Christ's command to teach OBEDIENCE to his commands instead of teaching OBEDIENCE to His commands as the verses CLEARLY state?

It's because they do not really BELIEVE Christ who spoke those words and their defiance proves it. They would rather BELIEVE and OBEY FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES....for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. John 12:42-43

The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you to the point of getting them banned to SUPPRESS THE TRUTH which no NOSAS ever did.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21[

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:15-18
Just as bad are the ones that buy his drivel and actually like it......very deceptive and false to boot
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Your NOT trusting Jesus,
Your trusting YOUR WORKS (IE SELF)
If you TRUSTED JESUS, You would RECIEVE his GRACE GIFT, and praise him by allowing HIM to sanctify you. NOT IN FEAR, but in hope BECAUSE YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, thus you KNOW you can stand boldly on the last day, NOT BECAUSE you were RIGHTEOUS. But because GOD SAVED YOU!
I already gave you the passage, as usual, you ignore it..or twist it to mean something it was never meant to mean
Playing God again. I thought you were against being so judgemental and telling someone what
they believe and what they are doing spiritually. Is that not being arrogant, puffed up and proud?

I do not know the state of anyone, it is between them and God.
You sound like you are the teacher and authority, rather than here is a passage from the Lord that
speaks to this way, let the Lord teach you, ask Him.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

I suspect if one just listens to God and His word, nothing that is attempted works, because unless
God says it, it is worthless.

The best one, God has changed. Repentance is no longer needed or walking righteously, because
of Jesus, except this is precisely not taught by scripture.

Jesus is the cornerstone the builders rejected, the final part of Gods message of salvation to
mankind, Amen.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I am trusting Jesus.
I am trusting what Jesus says will happen if I do what he says to do.
We have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.
You will find this is like running in circles with these guys, insults, slander, wind ups,
and denials of simple scripture. Because they cannot see it, or choose not to, repeating
the points when a little voice in their heads is saying and adding other ideas, makes it
just a witness, no more. God bless you
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
No, Your trusting in your works. Your tryign to save yourself

If you trusted what jesus said, you would eat the food which God said he would give you, and you would have eternal life.


God said those who obey are saved 9as apposed who ar enot saved who do nto obey)

God never said we must be obedient to be saved, He woudl contradict himself.

The penalty of sin is death,

Thus ONLY DEATH can redeem us of sin (all sin)

The penalty is not to go to church, to be baptised, To follow Gods commands, or any act of righteousness.. So doing those things WILL NOT REDEEEM SIN.

You have not been trained by the law man, you need to go back and study moses 101.
The following states all I need to know about his erroneous views...the following is false, not of God and comes straight from the devil......same false gospel Cain peddled......

YourTruthGod said:
Of course we can do righteous things to get saved. Obeying Jesus is righteous
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
What do you mean and now what?
Someone just tried to prove me wrong about it and the scriptures they gave prove me right.
I mean that, we all understand what you mean and we know what you are saying.

Its not that people dont get it, we get it, we must repent of our sins, we must need to have faith+works and not of works means not of purification works.

Its not that people dont get it...... its just that people DISAGREE
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Of course we can do "righteous things" to get saved. Obeying Jesus is righteous.
This sounds like a modern day self-righteous Pharisee, and do you think your "righteous things", can save you? Really? The bible say's there is "no one righteous" and just by chance you think you are "THE ONE" the bible say's "Not Even One."

Even Jonah understood God whereby he say's, "Salvation is of the Lord." turn to God not your self righteous deeds to get saved.

Isaiah 45:21
"Turn to Me and be saved
, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other

Jonah2:9
"I will pay that which I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD."


Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, "not even one."
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
This sounds like a modern day self-righteous Pharisee, and do you think your "righteous things", can save you? Really? The bible say's there is "no one righteous" and just by chance you think you are "THE ONE" the bible say's "Not Even One."

Even Jonah understood God whereby he say's, "Salvation is of the Lord." turn to God not your self righteous deeds to get saved.

Isaiah 45:21
"Turn to Me and be saved
, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other

Jonah2:9
"I will pay that which I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD."


Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, "not even one."
...You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. Romans 2:1-11
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I mean that, we all understand what you mean and we know what you are saying.
Its not that people dont get it, we get it, we must repent of our sins, we must need to have faith+works and not of works means not of purification works.
Its not that people dont get it...... its just that people DISAGREE
I wonder if you are being graceful enough.
Some do not disagree in the sense of seeing another point, they desire to change
the context and suggest some ulterior motive or agenda.

In a belief discussion, one lays out the logical connections of how a belief system
is built up and then compare the different outcomes, like wiki often lays out.

Here some desire to say people are lying, dishonest, no integrity etc. which are all
terrible things to accuse a follower of Jesus of being. And that is why it is done, because
the idea is to cause upset and pain. I have not come to expect such behaviour, and just
carry on because it does not change why I believe as I do, and displays for me the weakness
of the other party in even trying such behaviour.

Deeper still it shows their heart is full of something different than mine, because why would
I want to suggest someone is lying, being deceitful, have no honesty or integrity unless I could
see it. These are statements of personal faith, which are sincerely held. But then maybe something
else is going on, which I am unaware of, lol :)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The new covenant is the fulfilment of the old, it is not something different.
God has not changed His way of dealing with mankind, and Jesus did not remove the moral law.

We have become Gods Holy temple, in the people of God, His purified and sanctified people.

Now this is a deeper realisation of Gods communion with man.

"mere good and holy acts" - this unfortunately shows a distaste to walking in Gods will and Gods way.

And no one ever earns righteousness, it has always come by faith, and because one believes we walk
as we do.
They are "mere" because these acts do not, cannot and will never impart salvation, yet are done for that reason.

By those who state Lord, Lord, but never knew Him

Jesus did not remove the moral law.
He fulfilled it even better, which you have not quite grasped yet.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Do you know we only die once, and then judgement?
How you answered implies you have no goal at all.

If you are not listening to Jesus, you certainly will not listen to me. God bless you.
No goal eh??

Only the believer who abides (rests) in Him can "do"

Yet, what I read in your responses is "I do" so that "I can abide"

Big problem with that because the branch cannot "do" to earn from the vine, it can only receive and then do
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No goal eh??

Only the believer who abides (rests) in Him can "do"

Yet, what I read in your responses is "I do" so that "I can abide"

Big problem with that because the branch cannot "do" to earn from the vine, it can only receive and then do
Again, They ignore John over and over.

Its said.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They are "mere" because these acts do not, cannot and will never impart salvation, yet are done for that reason.

By those who state Lord, Lord, but never knew Him



He fulfilled it even better, which you have not quite grasped yet.
He is right, Jesus did not remove the law

what he fails to realise the law would curse him where he stands (or sits) thus he has no hope..
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
Not all bans are lifetime, Some are just a year.

Sadly, If fran was banned, she now has to wait a year again before she can LEGALLY come back. (If she has not been changed to permanent)
Well, again, I keep good record of all my groups I have joined and I do not see this one on my list. Sometimes it seems familiar to me here. If a person was lifetime banned does their profile and name from the membership list get removed? I would not ever try to get back in a group that had me on a ban. I cannot find any of the names I use on the list here.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
True Faith Has works. Not because it has too, But because works are a natural byproduct of faith.
Mere belief (dead faith) may appear to do good works. but it can not do good works.. And will most likely eventually be exposed.
The Bible says that faith has to have works. Faith is not always a byproduct of faith. Right, it will be exposed because faith alone is dead.