Rapture= false teaching

[lesnes]

The teaching of the rapture isnt meant to be confusing...remember when issues arise like this If there is mass confusion there is MOST LIKELY influence from the Devil! I posted A link in a thread right below this one that has a few BIBLE video sermons/Lessons On the RAPTURE! OK so if you wish to know the truth....its right there for you with the quotes of scriptures and BLACK AND WHITE PROOF FROM THE BIBLE!
PEOPLE the seccond Coming and the Rapture is the LOUDEST Scripture IN the BIBLE....its not meant to be a queit event....when it says he comes like a theif at night...it means YOU WONT PREDICXT THE DAY NO ONE WILL! thats it the rest of the event is the LOUDEST MOST VISIBLE AND NON_SECRETE EVENT in the Bible! Ok so heres the link again Browse Media - Bible Topics - Amazing Discoveries TV and the cvideos are called the "Crisis Hour" and Are about the Rapture! You want the Truth, Or you cant handle it??? Or do you not want to know the truth for fear that you are WRONG

 

[lesnes]

The teaching of the rapture isnt meant to be confusing...remember when issues arise like this If there is mass confusion there is MOST LIKELY influence from the Devil! I posted A link in a thread right below this one that has a few BIBLE video sermons/Lessons On the RAPTURE! OK so if you wish to know the truth....its right there for you with the quotes of scriptures and BLACK AND WHITE PROOF FROM THE BIBLE!
PEOPLE the seccond Coming and the Rapture is the LOUDEST Scripture IN the BIBLE....its not meant to be a queit event....when it says he comes like a theif at night...it means YOU WONT PREDICXT THE DAY NO ONE WILL! thats it the rest of the event is the LOUDEST MOST VISIBLE AND NON_SECRETE EVENT in the Bible! Ok so heres the link again Browse Media - Bible Topics - Amazing Discoveries TV and the cvideos are called the "Crisis Hour" and Are about the Rapture! You want the Truth, Or you cant handle it??? Or do you not want to know the truth for fear that you are WRONG

 

[zone]

Dear friend, That is where you seem to already assume that the 70th week of Daniel has not already been fulfilled. What about the destruction of the Jewish temple of Jerusalem in 70 AD? Does not prophecy fulfill itself 40 years later (one generation after) Christ said the temple would be destroyed? Yes. Christ's words were fulfilled in the great tribulation of 70 AD.
[/size]

*sigh*
Scott...they can't have their rapture and/or temporal Kingdom without the 7 year thing, which requires DRAGGING THE 70TH WEEK INTO THE FUTURE so the jews can "get right with God" under the Old Covenant...sacrificing animals and such. oh goody.

tea?
zone

 

[lesnes]

I believe in the post trib. Why would God let his children suffer from the plight of the Antichrist. And also the judgements. The Bible says that He doesn't want his children to suffer. I believe that we will ascend to meet our Lord Jesus before tribulation.
I really can't wait for the Rapture, although all of my friends think I'm crazy for believing in it. Sometimes we get into lengthy discusions about it. But they still think I'm crazy.

Its just not true So what your saying hes going to take all his people then torcher the rest to see if they change there minds???are you kidding me does this seem like the God you know and Love?....Turn the world into a torcher chamber...only to destroy it after .... which seems more likely with your God...what makes you think the tribulations arent already in motion, what makes you think the anti-christ isnt already here? do youi think the anti-christ would want you to be able to pick him out that easily...you are grossly underestimating your enemy.

 

[zone]

here's just ONE simple example of SAINTS in Heaven speaking to The Lord WHILE stuff is going down on earth...and LOOK! there are SAINTS on earth who are going to be killed in the tribulation (though killed by THE DARK KINGDOM, not by God's PLAGUES)!

umm...could it mean the Kingdom is NOW, and those who have died ARE reigning with Him in Heaven?

and that there is NO RAPTURE out of tribulation for those on earth?

~

Revelation 6
7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

 

[DanuckInUSA]

The rapture has always been extrabiblical hasnt it?

 

[Scotth1960]

The rapture has always been extrabiblical hasnt it?

Dear friends, This pre-trib rapture teaching has obviously gotten a lot of repsonses from people on "Christian Chat", some 2545 responses and counting so far! Go figure. It is not an important doctrine. It IS IMPORTANT that we DON'T believe in the pre-tribulation rapture THEORY. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[lecoop]

The teaching of the rapture isnt meant to be confusing...remember when issues arise like this If there is mass confusion there is MOST LIKELY influence from the Devil! I posted A link in a thread right below this one that has a few BIBLE video sermons/Lessons On the RAPTURE! OK so if you wish to know the truth....its right there for you with the quotes of scriptures and BLACK AND WHITE PROOF FROM THE BIBLE!
PEOPLE the seccond Coming and the Rapture is the LOUDEST Scripture IN the BIBLE....its not meant to be a queit event....when it says he comes like a theif at night...it means YOU WONT PREDICXT THE DAY NO ONE WILL! thats it the rest of the event is the LOUDEST MOST VISIBLE AND NON_SECRETE EVENT in the Bible! Ok so heres the link again Browse Media - Bible Topics - Amazing Discoveries TV and the cvideos are called the "Crisis Hour" and Are about the Rapture! You want the Truth, Or you cant handle it??? Or do you not want to know the truth for fear that you are WRONG

Sorry, I am not going to register and be forced to sign up for something just to read or listen to your posts.

Amazing: I tried it again and it let me in without registering/

Coop

 

[lecoop]

The teaching of the rapture isnt meant to be confusing...remember when issues arise like this If there is mass confusion there is MOST LIKELY influence from the Devil! I posted A link in a thread right below this one that has a few BIBLE video sermons/Lessons On the RAPTURE! OK so if you wish to know the truth....its right there for you with the quotes of scriptures and BLACK AND WHITE PROOF FROM THE BIBLE!
PEOPLE the seccond Coming and the Rapture is the LOUDEST Scripture IN the BIBLE....its not meant to be a queit event....when it says he comes like a theif at night...it means YOU WONT PREDICXT THE DAY NO ONE WILL! thats it the rest of the event is the LOUDEST MOST VISIBLE AND NON_SECRETE EVENT in the Bible! Ok so heres the link again Browse Media - Bible Topics - Amazing Discoveries TV and the cvideos are called the "Crisis Hour" and Are about the Rapture! You want the Truth, Or you cant handle it??? Or do you not want to know the truth for fear that you are WRONG

I listened to most of the first and second video and wish to report: Much of his theory between the verses is MYTH.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Its just not true So what your saying hes going to take all his people then torcher the rest to see if they change there minds???are you kidding me does this seem like the God you know and Love?....Turn the world into a torcher chamber...only to destroy it after .... which seems more likely with your God...what makes you think the tribulations arent already in motion, what makes you think the anti-christ isnt already here? do youi think the anti-christ would want you to be able to pick him out that easily...you are grossly underestimating your enemy.

The Antichrist CANNNOT be revealed until the one restraining him from being revealed is taken out of the way.

Did you ever notice that although our God is a God of love, He is just as much a God of JUSTICE?

To answer your questions, the book of Revelation gives us GREAT CLUES so we will KNOW when the days of the 70th week start. The first trumpet is the first event of the 70th week. I am convinced it speaks of Nuclear war. Do you think that will go un-noticed? But even before that, the rapture of the church will take those WATCHING out of here and to heaven. So we will not SEE the Antichrist.

And after the rapture, the sun turns dark and the moon into blood" again, signs that will not be missed. And there will be the first WORLDWIDE earthquake: not easy to miss. Everyone will KNOW when the Day of the Lord and the 70th week comes.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

here's just ONE simple example of SAINTS in Heaven speaking to The Lord WHILE stuff is going down on earth...and LOOK! there are SAINTS on earth who are going to be killed in the tribulation (though killed by THE DARK KINGDOM, not by God's PLAGUES)!

umm...could it mean the Kingdom is NOW, and those who have died ARE reigning with Him in Heaven?

and that there is NO RAPTURE out of tribulation for those on earth?

~

Revelation 6
7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Sorry Zone, but you are not understanding John's timing here. The first five seals were broken in 33 AD, the moment Jesus ascended into heaven and got the book from the Father. Those under the alter, the martyrs, are CHURCH AGE martyrs. Stephen was surely among them. And since many martyrs are killed by different methods, that is now what John was meaning. These were all martyred as CHURCH AGE martyrs. And they are going to have to wait until the FINAL church age martyr. What will make some martyr to be the last martyr of the church age? Of course the END of the church age. It will end at the 6th seal.

Anyone left behind and then turning to God can certainly still make it to heaven, but it will be through DEATH. The Beast will find them and kill them.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

The rapture has always been extrabiblical hasnt it?

Of course NOT! The rapture is found clearly in 1 Thes. 4:17, and also in 1 Cor. 15.

But the effects of the rapture are seen in Rev. 7.

It is VERY MUCH biblical.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Dear friends, This pre-trib rapture teaching has obviously gotten a lot of repsonses from people on "Christian Chat", some 2545 responses and counting so far! Go figure. It is not an important doctrine. It IS IMPORTANT that we DON'T believe in the pre-tribulation rapture THEORY. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

For the readers: would God put something in the bible that was NOT important? Of course He would not. The teaching of the rapture is VERY important, because Jesus is coming for those WATCHING for Him. How would one watch if they did not BELIEVE that He was coming, or coming BEFORE the 70th week?

NOT being left behind is EXTREMELY important.

Coop

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

For the readers: would God put something in the bible that was NOT important? Of course He would not. The teaching of the rapture is VERY important, because Jesus is coming for those WATCHING for Him. How would one watch if they did not BELIEVE that He was coming, or coming BEFORE the 70th week?

NOT being left behind is EXTREMELY important.

Coop

Absurd!

So... I've believed the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, baptized in water and the Spirit according to the Word, and experienced true salvation, redemption, justification, and sanctification by the precious shed blood of Jesus. But... if I don't augment that grace and faith with assent to a mid-1800s doctrinal formulation of man that says to watch for a snatch-n-grab instead of the biblically-promised second coming, I'll be "left behind" because grace and faith are insufficient compared to some fear-mongering modern teaching that has recently become a cultural commercial phenomenon within a prayerless, non-fasting, shallow-word, social, sectarian, powerless, compromising church world?

Nope!! Salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His righteousness; not catching some mythical "rapture choo-choo" at the celestial train station. There aren't three comings.

I watch every moment for the coming of my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ... His promised second coming. No secret date/event decoder ring required.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

The Jews in the end who see Jesus will be saved if they believe.......no comment


Shalom

 

[zone]

Absurd!

So... I've believed the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, baptized in water and the Spirit according to the Word, and experienced true salvation, redemption, justification, and sanctification by the precious shed blood of Jesus. But... if I don't augment that grace and faith with assent to a mid-1800s doctrinal formulation of man that says to watch for a snatch-n-grab instead of the biblically-promised second coming, I'll be "left behind" because grace and faith are insufficient compared to some fear-mongering modern teaching that has recently become a cultural commercial phenomenon within a prayerless, non-fasting, shallow-word, social, sectarian, powerless, compromising church world?

Nope!! Salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His righteousness; not catching some mythical "rapture choo-choo" at the celestial train station. There aren't three comings.

I watch every moment for the coming of my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ... His promised second coming. No secret date/event decoder ring required.

AMEN & AMEN....

(but....can i still have a decoder ring?)

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

AMEN & AMEN....

(but....can i still have a decoder ring?)

Sure! They're free with each purchase of the old Scofield Study Bible. Just redeem the coupon online with the password "JohnNelsonDarby". The order will be "dispensed" post-haste.

 

[Red33]

Absurd!

So... I've believed the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, baptized in water and the Spirit according to the Word, and experienced true salvation, redemption, justification, and sanctification by the precious shed blood of Jesus. But... if I don't augment that grace and faith with assent to a mid-1800s doctrinal formulation of man that says to watch for a snatch-n-grab instead of the biblically-promised second coming, I'll be "left behind" because grace and faith are insufficient compared to some fear-mongering modern teaching that has recently become a cultural commercial phenomenon within a prayerless, non-fasting, shallow-word, social, sectarian, powerless, compromising church world?

Nope!! Salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His righteousness; not catching some mythical "rapture choo-choo" at the celestial train station. There aren't three comings.

I watch every moment for the coming of my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ... His promised second coming. No secret date/event decoder ring required.

Seeing we are talking about the church let me ask you a few things. When Jesus was here and with His disciples and went to the cross, died, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, at that point what did the disciples understand about the church? Very little! Jesus spoke only a few times in reference to the church. The day of Pentecost came and went and they realized that God gave His Spirit and salvation not just to the Jews but also to the Gentiles and God added to the church. How much did they understand about the church at this point? Not much but they were growing but still had a hard time with the Gentiles because of the law. It was not until Paul came into the picture and began to teach about the church and body of Christ that they began to hear things about the church and body that they had never heard before and it came from a man who had persecuted the church.

They must have had their times of doubting though they recognized the grace of God that had called him. With all that teaching and all those letters being circulated, many of those disciples still did not know much about the church and hardly a thing concerning the body or bride of Christ. I think it would be safe to say that the mystery of the church was revealed to the apostle Paul and very few understood. The prophets of old did not understand some of the things they prophesied about the Spirit as it related to the Gentiles and the church that would result when that middle wall of partition was broken down (Eph 2:12-14).

There are many mysteries relating to the church and I would concede that only a handful of believers that have been taught the word and doctrine would even know what these are. Can you name them? Can you tell me how these mysteries relate to the believer in his understanding of Christ and the church, presently and in the future and to one another? Why did the Lord keep these mysteries hid from Israel and the prophets and reveal them to the church through His apostles? Can you tell me all these things concerning the church and the mysteries that surround it and have been used to build and edify the church? These are the building blocks and when we have these in or heart as sound doctrine, only then will these other things fall into place and be revealed to us as part of our joy that we have to look forward to in Christ.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Seeing we are talking about the church let me ask you a few things. When Jesus was here and with His disciples and went to the cross, died, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, at that point what did the disciples understand about the church? Very little! Jesus spoke only a few times in reference to the church. The day of Pentecost came and went and they realized that God gave His Spirit and salvation not just to the Jews but also to the Gentiles and God added to the church. How much did they understand about the church at this point? Not much but they were growing but still had a hard time with the Gentiles because of the law. It was not until Paul came into the picture and began to teach about the church and body of Christ that they began to hear things about the church and body that they had never heard before and it came from a man who had persecuted the church.

They must have had their times of doubting though they recognized the grace of God that had called him. With all that teaching and all those letters being circulated, many of those disciples still did not know much about the church and hardly a thing concerning the body or bride of Christ. I think it would be safe to say that the mystery of the church was revealed to the apostle Paul and very few understood. The prophets of old did not understand some of the things they prophesied about the Spirit as it related to the Gentiles and the church that would result when that middle wall of partition was broken down (Eph 2:12-14).

There are many mysteries relating to the church and I would concede that only a handful of believers that have been taught the word and doctrine would even know what these are. Can you name them? Can you tell me how these mysteries relate to the believer in his understanding of Christ and the church, presently and in the future and to one another? Why did the Lord keep these mysteries hid from Israel and the prophets and reveal them to the church through His apostles? Can you tell me all these things concerning the church and the mysteries that surround it and have been used to build and edify the church? These are the building blocks and when we have these in or heart as sound doctrine, only then will these other things fall into place and be revealed to us as part of our joy that we have to look forward to in Christ.

I agree. If one doesn't understand the mystery that hath been hid from ages and from generations; and the mystery of godliness; and the mystery of iniquity; and the mystery of the Kingdom of God, and the mystery of His will... what good is an obsession with end times prophecy from ANY viewpoint? Following a mid-19th century doctrinal formulation of man is even more futile.

Do you have the understanding of these things? I would gladly converse with you about them. We both might learn much as iron sharpening iron. The constitution of God and man would be a great place to start.

 

[lecoop]

Absurd!

So... I've believed the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, baptized in water and the Spirit according to the Word, and experienced true salvation, redemption, justification, and sanctification by the precious shed blood of Jesus. But... if I don't augment that grace and faith with assent to a mid-1800s doctrinal formulation of man that says to watch for a snatch-n-grab instead of the biblically-promised second coming, I'll be "left behind" because grace and faith are insufficient compared to some fear-mongering modern teaching that has recently become a cultural commercial phenomenon within a prayerless, non-fasting, shallow-word, social, sectarian, powerless, compromising church world?

Nope!! Salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His righteousness; not catching some mythical "rapture choo-choo" at the celestial train station. There aren't three comings.

I watch every moment for the coming of my Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ... His promised second coming. No secret date/event decoder ring required.

If you are watching, then you are doing exactly as He told us to do. However, if you believe in your heart that you are going to see the Beast first, then can you really have FAITH in Him coming FIRST for the church? In your heart, you will believe you will see the BEAST first.

It is simply impossible to believe BOTH can be first. Certainly you can be born again. But is "born again" saying the same thing as going up in the rapture? ABSOLUTELY NOT! There will be born again people LEFT BEHIND. Just one example, if someone is born again, but has UNFORGIVENESS in his or her heart, they will certainly NOT go up in the rapture.

I firmly believe that if your faith is that you will see the Beast first - God will honor that faith and you will be LEFT BEHIND to get exactly what you are believing for.

Coop