what happens next millenium or new earth?
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I know that you posted much more than what I quoted but your whole post is essentially the same. It is popular dispensational teaching. Can I ask you a few simple questions?
What does Rev 1: 1 & 3 and Rev 22: 6,7,10,12 & 20 mean to you? What do these seven verses mean to you? Do you think it is a fair interpretation to say that - near, quickly, shortly and at hand - mean 2,000 years and counting?
What does Rev 1: 1 & 3 and Rev 22: 6,7,10,12 & 20 mean to you? What do these seven verses mean to you? Do you think it is a fair interpretation to say that - near, quickly, shortly and at hand - mean 2,000 years and counting?
Replacement theology is a pejorative that has been used by dispensationalists for a long time to undermine those that don't agree with their teaching. Full-preterism does not teach replacement theology but according to dispensationalists anyone that does not teach a special place for Jewish people today is a replacement theologian. That makes almost all of the Christian church for 2,000 years believers in "replacement theology".
Jesus began the church with 12 Jewish men. The first several thousand believers were all Jewish. Then Paul was sent and Gentiles were grafted in. People have been being grafted in for 2,000 years and counting. Nobody was "replaced". Scripture says Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond nor free matter. All are one in Christ. Dispensationalism teaches that the physical Jews are still favored. They are not according to Paul and the rest of the Scriptures.
Jesus began the church with 12 Jewish men. The first several thousand believers were all Jewish. Then Paul was sent and Gentiles were grafted in. People have been being grafted in for 2,000 years and counting. Nobody was "replaced". Scripture says Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond nor free matter. All are one in Christ. Dispensationalism teaches that the physical Jews are still favored. They are not according to Paul and the rest of the Scriptures.
That is how I understood what Paul was writing in Romans 9-11, specifically Romans 11. The Jews have special favor with God which us Gentiles don't
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
How would you interpret this passage?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
How would you interpret this passage?
Most premillennialists on site believe in a system regarding the last days known as dispensationalism. The real root of the system that includes the Tribulation the Pre Tribulation rapture and the literal Millennium is the belief that God has two plans for Humanities
salvation. One for the Jews and another for the Gentiles (Church). The belief is that Christ came and offered the Jews their kingdom
which they rejected so having failed to convince them he set up the Church as temporary ''plan B'' The Church as they see it will only
be here until the rapture takes it away fo seven years. After that Christ will return with the church and set up a literal Jewish Kingdom
reinstating the Temple, sacrificial system and having rulership over the unbelieving Nations for 1000 years
The central problem with all this is that there is only one plan for salvation and that is in the belief in Jesus. Jesus didn't fail in his
ministry but fulfilled it as the real passover lamb that takes away the sins of the world. and as the second Adam who will bring about
a new heaven and a new earth together with full reconciliation between God and humanity. The Church he set up was headed by Jews. The creation of earthly Israel was a means to an end. That end was the first coming of Christ. The true Israel is now comprised of all who are in Christ whether Jew or Gentile
salvation. One for the Jews and another for the Gentiles (Church). The belief is that Christ came and offered the Jews their kingdom
which they rejected so having failed to convince them he set up the Church as temporary ''plan B'' The Church as they see it will only
be here until the rapture takes it away fo seven years. After that Christ will return with the church and set up a literal Jewish Kingdom
reinstating the Temple, sacrificial system and having rulership over the unbelieving Nations for 1000 years
The central problem with all this is that there is only one plan for salvation and that is in the belief in Jesus. Jesus didn't fail in his
ministry but fulfilled it as the real passover lamb that takes away the sins of the world. and as the second Adam who will bring about
a new heaven and a new earth together with full reconciliation between God and humanity. The Church he set up was headed by Jews. The creation of earthly Israel was a means to an end. That end was the first coming of Christ. The true Israel is now comprised of all who are in Christ whether Jew or Gentile
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Let’s look at Romans 11 verse by verse and combine it with what Isaiah 59 & 60 tell us.
First off, I agree with you that Roman 9-11 is talking about physical, Jewish Israel. What does Paul say in Romans 9: 6? That not all Israel is Israel but the children of the promise. The remnant. The remnant is considered all Israel in God’s eyes.
In Romans 11: 1-7, this remnant, is Paul’s elect in the first century. In Elijah’s day it was the 7,000 that God reserved that had not bowed the knee to Baal. The rest were blinded. They are not true Israel and God gives them a spirit of stupor and David curses them in verses 8-10.
In Romans 11: 11-15 Paul says that their failure in rejecting Jesus has caused riches for the Gentiles. He says that he magnifies his ministry to provoke some to salvation because their acceptance means the resurrection. The same resurrection that happened in 70 A.D.
In Romans 11: 16-24 Paul tells the Gentiles not to boast but to fear. God will not spare them either if they fall into unbelief and He will graft the Jews back in if they turn to him in faith. Then we get to the key verses in this passage. The ones you cited in verses 25 and 26.
Romans 11: 25 is talking about the gospel being preached until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Jesus says in Matt 24: 14, “And this gospel will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Remember Jesus says this will happen in His generation (Matt 24: 34). Paul said the gospel was already preached in all the world (Rom 16: 26, Col 1: 6, 23). The end came in 70 A.D. The end of old covenant Israel.
Romans 11: 26 “all Israel being saved” is the remnant of Jewish Israel only. How do we know this? Paul is quoting this verse from Isaiah 59: 20. Read that whole chapter. In verses 1-15 it talks about Israel being separated from God because of their sins. In verses 16-21 God brings salvation for them. This happens in Isaiah 59: 20 when the deliverer (Jesus) come TO Zion. Why does Paul say Jesus will come FROM Zion?
Both are true. Jesus came TO Zion in 70 A.D. and that was “all Israel” being saved. The remnant of Romans 9: 6. He also comes FROM Zion since 70 A.D.
This is where you need to read the very next chapter in Isaiah 60. Read the whole chapter. What does it describe? The Gentiles flowing into God’s kingdom from 70 A.D. until this present day and that will continue on forever. The city described in this chapter is not earthly Jerusalem. It is the New Jerusalem which came down from heaven in 70 A.D. at the fall of the old Jerusalem. It is the church, the Lamb’s wife. The new heavens and earth.
Read Isaiah 60 carefully. It has many parallels to the New Jerusalem in Rev 21 & 22. Here is a few:
Isaiah 60: 11, “…the gates shall be open continually. They shall not be shut day or night…”
Rev 21: 25, “It’s gates shall not be shut by day and there shall be no night there”
Isaiah 60: 3,5 “the Gentiles shall come to your light” “the wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you”
Rev 21: 26, “And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it”
Isaiah 60: 19, “The sun shall no longer be your light nor the moon be light for you but the Lord will be an everlasting light to you”
Rev 21: 23, “The city had no need of the sun or the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.”
You can probably find more. The city described in Isaiah 60 is the same city of Revelation 21. It is the New Jerusalem. The Lamb’s bride. The church.
It is not a physical Jerusalem in a millennial kingdom on earth. It is a spiritual kingdom that has had people from all over the world flowing into it for the last 2,000 years and will continue forever.
First off, I agree with you that Roman 9-11 is talking about physical, Jewish Israel. What does Paul say in Romans 9: 6? That not all Israel is Israel but the children of the promise. The remnant. The remnant is considered all Israel in God’s eyes.
In Romans 11: 1-7, this remnant, is Paul’s elect in the first century. In Elijah’s day it was the 7,000 that God reserved that had not bowed the knee to Baal. The rest were blinded. They are not true Israel and God gives them a spirit of stupor and David curses them in verses 8-10.
In Romans 11: 11-15 Paul says that their failure in rejecting Jesus has caused riches for the Gentiles. He says that he magnifies his ministry to provoke some to salvation because their acceptance means the resurrection. The same resurrection that happened in 70 A.D.
In Romans 11: 16-24 Paul tells the Gentiles not to boast but to fear. God will not spare them either if they fall into unbelief and He will graft the Jews back in if they turn to him in faith. Then we get to the key verses in this passage. The ones you cited in verses 25 and 26.
Romans 11: 25 is talking about the gospel being preached until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Jesus says in Matt 24: 14, “And this gospel will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Remember Jesus says this will happen in His generation (Matt 24: 34). Paul said the gospel was already preached in all the world (Rom 16: 26, Col 1: 6, 23). The end came in 70 A.D. The end of old covenant Israel.
Romans 11: 26 “all Israel being saved” is the remnant of Jewish Israel only. How do we know this? Paul is quoting this verse from Isaiah 59: 20. Read that whole chapter. In verses 1-15 it talks about Israel being separated from God because of their sins. In verses 16-21 God brings salvation for them. This happens in Isaiah 59: 20 when the deliverer (Jesus) come TO Zion. Why does Paul say Jesus will come FROM Zion?
Both are true. Jesus came TO Zion in 70 A.D. and that was “all Israel” being saved. The remnant of Romans 9: 6. He also comes FROM Zion since 70 A.D.
This is where you need to read the very next chapter in Isaiah 60. Read the whole chapter. What does it describe? The Gentiles flowing into God’s kingdom from 70 A.D. until this present day and that will continue on forever. The city described in this chapter is not earthly Jerusalem. It is the New Jerusalem which came down from heaven in 70 A.D. at the fall of the old Jerusalem. It is the church, the Lamb’s wife. The new heavens and earth.
Read Isaiah 60 carefully. It has many parallels to the New Jerusalem in Rev 21 & 22. Here is a few:
Isaiah 60: 11, “…the gates shall be open continually. They shall not be shut day or night…”
Rev 21: 25, “It’s gates shall not be shut by day and there shall be no night there”
Isaiah 60: 3,5 “the Gentiles shall come to your light” “the wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you”
Rev 21: 26, “And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it”
Isaiah 60: 19, “The sun shall no longer be your light nor the moon be light for you but the Lord will be an everlasting light to you”
Rev 21: 23, “The city had no need of the sun or the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.”
You can probably find more. The city described in Isaiah 60 is the same city of Revelation 21. It is the New Jerusalem. The Lamb’s bride. The church.
It is not a physical Jerusalem in a millennial kingdom on earth. It is a spiritual kingdom that has had people from all over the world flowing into it for the last 2,000 years and will continue forever.
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Our starting points are different. You don't agree that the program was postponed because of the Jews rejecting Jesus in Acts, with the stoning of Stephen, while I do.
As I have stated, my starting point was that even Jesus was not aware of how long-suffering the Father is when it came to unbelievers (2 Peter 3:9), how the current dispensation of Grace can last 2000 years.
That is how you could conclude that the end came in AD 70.
Nevertheless, I can see how your train of thought flows from that starting point, because you are not the first I have encountered who follow that train.
As I have stated, my starting point was that even Jesus was not aware of how long-suffering the Father is when it came to unbelievers (2 Peter 3:9), how the current dispensation of Grace can last 2000 years.
That is how you could conclude that the end came in AD 70.
Nevertheless, I can see how your train of thought flows from that starting point, because you are not the first I have encountered who follow that train.
No one is saying that Jesus failed in his ministry.
The rejection of him by the Jews in Acts was a mystery plan hidden in God the Father, where because of the Jews not acknowledging him as their promised Messiah, the way is open for us Gentiles to be included.
But Jesus will return for the Jews in his 2nd coming, and all of them will finally acknowledge him. The story of Joseph in Genesis showed the timeline well.
The rejection of him by the Jews in Acts was a mystery plan hidden in God the Father, where because of the Jews not acknowledging him as their promised Messiah, the way is open for us Gentiles to be included.
But Jesus will return for the Jews in his 2nd coming, and all of them will finally acknowledge him. The story of Joseph in Genesis showed the timeline well.
- He was loved by the Father,
- Rejected by his brothers,
- ended up being the bread of life to the Gentiles (the Egyptians)
- The Jews didn't recognize Joseph in his first appearance.
- But the 2nd time, Joseph revealed himself to his brothers and all of them acknowledged him.
Revelation says in the first verse of the book not to read it literally. Does that mean it has no literal verses? No, but it is primarily written in signs and symbols. Anybody who has read the book can easily see this.
Psalms has lots of poetic language in them. There are also literal verses too. You have to rightly divide and use good judgment. I think the verses I linked about the earth, sun and moon enduring forever are literal from their context.
Peter quotes Joel 2: 28-32 in Acts 2: 17-21. He quotes this on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out. He says on Pentecost that it was currently the last days. It is dishonest for my fellow brothers in the Lord to say that the "last days" go on for 2,000 years and counting. Only someone biased would attempt an explanation like that. I am not saying you are doing that but many Christians do.
The last days were in the first century. They were the last days of old covenant Israel. Peter said in 1 Peter 4: 7 that "the end of all things was at hand". The Day of the Lord was the destruction of Jerusalem.
Psalms has lots of poetic language in them. There are also literal verses too. You have to rightly divide and use good judgment. I think the verses I linked about the earth, sun and moon enduring forever are literal from their context.
Peter quotes Joel 2: 28-32 in Acts 2: 17-21. He quotes this on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out. He says on Pentecost that it was currently the last days. It is dishonest for my fellow brothers in the Lord to say that the "last days" go on for 2,000 years and counting. Only someone biased would attempt an explanation like that. I am not saying you are doing that but many Christians do.
The last days were in the first century. They were the last days of old covenant Israel. Peter said in 1 Peter 4: 7 that "the end of all things was at hand". The Day of the Lord was the destruction of Jerusalem.
The 1000 years starts when Jesus comes, the resurrection of the dead, The saved join Jesus and go to their heavenly homes.
Using Rev 20,.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is for the saved.
The rest of the world are dead. Satan does not tempt anyone for the 1000 years.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation. One group live and reign with Jesus and the other don't live until a thousand years have finished. The resurrections are divided by 1000 years.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
The unsaved shall be destroyed by the glory of Jesus at His coming.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
No one will be alive on the earth to lament or repent. It is all over if your not saved.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
The word for “bottomless pit” in the original Greek is “abussos,” or abyss. That same word is used in Gen 1:2 in the Greek version of the Old Testament in connection with the creation of the earth, but there it is translated “deep.” “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.” The words “deep,” “bottomless pit,” and “abyss” here refer to the same thing—the earth in its totally dark, disorganized form before God made order of it. Jeremiah, in describing this earth during the 1,000 years, used virtually the same terms as these in Gen 1:2 “without form, and void,” “no light,” “no man,” and “black” (Jer 4:23,25,28).
So Satan will be in this Abyss, dark, deep place for a thousand years not tempting anyone.
Could it be the planet Earth in a state similar to the form before creation. ? the chain is not literal because the devil can't be held by a literal chain. Rev 20:3 "and bound him a thousand years,", but God binds him 1000 years, by forcing him to stay on this destroyed Earth with no on to tempt and nothing to do except think about the past and future.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
The saved are going to be taken away to be with Jesus for the 1000 years.
Using Rev 20,.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is for the saved.
The rest of the world are dead. Satan does not tempt anyone for the 1000 years.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation. One group live and reign with Jesus and the other don't live until a thousand years have finished. The resurrections are divided by 1000 years.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
The unsaved shall be destroyed by the glory of Jesus at His coming.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
No one will be alive on the earth to lament or repent. It is all over if your not saved.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
The word for “bottomless pit” in the original Greek is “abussos,” or abyss. That same word is used in Gen 1:2 in the Greek version of the Old Testament in connection with the creation of the earth, but there it is translated “deep.” “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.” The words “deep,” “bottomless pit,” and “abyss” here refer to the same thing—the earth in its totally dark, disorganized form before God made order of it. Jeremiah, in describing this earth during the 1,000 years, used virtually the same terms as these in Gen 1:2 “without form, and void,” “no light,” “no man,” and “black” (Jer 4:23,25,28).
So Satan will be in this Abyss, dark, deep place for a thousand years not tempting anyone.
Could it be the planet Earth in a state similar to the form before creation. ? the chain is not literal because the devil can't be held by a literal chain. Rev 20:3 "and bound him a thousand years,", but God binds him 1000 years, by forcing him to stay on this destroyed Earth with no on to tempt and nothing to do except think about the past and future.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
The saved are going to be taken away to be with Jesus for the 1000 years.
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I dont know which bible you use. My bible says in revelation 1, 1 nothing about how to read it. And nothing about not to read it literal.
Sure psalms have poetic and also literal phrases. But where not written as teaching, but as prayer.
In so war we can lern about God and the creation, but we cant create a doctrine from. If it dont fit to the rest of the bible.
I dont talk from Joel 2, 28-32
I talk from Joel. 1-3
Tell me, in which time after the folk of Israel and Juda have been in capture in Babylon and Assyria and been back in Israel they had peace.? And God lived among them and they had peace? (Joel 1,27; 3,17;3,20)
Btw. Joel 2, 28-30 is not full fulfilled till today! Because it is prophecy in a time when Israel lives free.
Ore do you pick only those verses out which fit in your doctrine?
Sure psalms have poetic and also literal phrases. But where not written as teaching, but as prayer.
In so war we can lern about God and the creation, but we cant create a doctrine from. If it dont fit to the rest of the bible.
I dont talk from Joel 2, 28-32
I talk from Joel. 1-3
Tell me, in which time after the folk of Israel and Juda have been in capture in Babylon and Assyria and been back in Israel they had peace.? And God lived among them and they had peace? (Joel 1,27; 3,17;3,20)
Btw. Joel 2, 28-30 is not full fulfilled till today! Because it is prophecy in a time when Israel lives free.
Ore do you pick only those verses out which fit in your doctrine?
It wasn't a mystery plan. The Jewish leadership knew the scriptures. They could even tell Herod where he was to be born
by quoting them. The chief priest gives the reason they ejected him when he said it was better for one man to die than the whole nation perish. He wanted to retain his power and privilege under Rome. Jesus warned what would happen to his generation if they ejected him and his warning came true some forty years later. Matt 23-24 He warned them throughout his ministry. He gave Israel his last warning on his way to be crucified Luke 23:27-31
Prior to Jacob and his twelve Sons everyone was Gentile. Jesus explained that the whole Bible is about him.
by quoting them. The chief priest gives the reason they ejected him when he said it was better for one man to die than the whole nation perish. He wanted to retain his power and privilege under Rome. Jesus warned what would happen to his generation if they ejected him and his warning came true some forty years later. Matt 23-24 He warned them throughout his ministry. He gave Israel his last warning on his way to be crucified Luke 23:27-31
Prior to Jacob and his twelve Sons everyone was Gentile. Jesus explained that the whole Bible is about him.
Ok that does not make any sense AT ALL to me but you seem to have it worked out in your mind.
I dont really buy the 'disappearing church' trick.
We believers are all tribulation saints because everyone of us has tribulation on this earth. If one doesnt, then I wouldnt consider them to have suffered for their faith. And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption. They are a great multitude without number! How can there be two lots of the church?!
I dont really buy the 'disappearing church' trick.
We believers are all tribulation saints because everyone of us has tribulation on this earth. If one doesnt, then I wouldnt consider them to have suffered for their faith. And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption. They are a great multitude without number! How can there be two lots of the church?!
You can argue with delirious all you want. I won't. He is a preterist and amillennialist. They skew scripture around so much I can't even relate a starting point. The mystery is what God is doing with the humans not called in this life. I am #1 on this chart. 
The others are confusing.
I am referring to the mystery where Jews and Gentiles are equal before God, not the rejection of Jesus by the Jews.
Do you realized that Paul talked about this mystery numerous times in his letters? None of the other apostles ever mentioned the same mystery even once.
It was a secret hidden in God, only revealed to the Apostle Paul, after the Jews rejected Jesus in Acts.
If you want to prove me wrong, show me a scripture where any Jew predicted a world where Jews and Gentiles are equal before God. I believed even Isaiah got it wrong in chapter 61, where he predicted
5 Foreigners will be your servants. They will feed your flocks and plow your fields and tend your vineyards.
Do you realized that Paul talked about this mystery numerous times in his letters? None of the other apostles ever mentioned the same mystery even once.
It was a secret hidden in God, only revealed to the Apostle Paul, after the Jews rejected Jesus in Acts.
If you want to prove me wrong, show me a scripture where any Jew predicted a world where Jews and Gentiles are equal before God. I believed even Isaiah got it wrong in chapter 61, where he predicted
5 Foreigners will be your servants. They will feed your flocks and plow your fields and tend your vineyards.