How does one believe?

[garee]

You sir have it backwards.
Faith is a gift (eph 2:8,9)
My brother mentioned scripture telling us that that natural man cannot perceive the things of God. Jesus tells us we have to be born again to even see the kingdom of God in John 3. This is the gospel of the apostles, the one they learned from Christ. Regeneration precedes faith. You sir have another gospel, which is not another but a curse. Repent and trust in Christ's sovereign work alone.

May God be the Judge

Faith is the gift that all spiritual gifts stem from...... the good ground .

Jesus tells us we have to be born again to even see the kingdom of God in John 3 This is the gospel of the apostles, the one they learned from Christ. Christ must do the first work and give a person the faith needed to known their faithful Creator who loves us as his labor of love. .

Its seems that you went from...... "to even see the kingdom of God in John 3 This is the gospel of the apostles, the one they learned from Christ". with nothing to explain how that is performed? What kind of work was needed to give them eyes to see ? A work of Christ's faith in them?

Natural man has "no faith" that could please God . It would seem that God works in them to both will and do His good pleasure .Freely giving us newly given faith that came from them hearing Christ not seen . Even the Son of man refused to receive the glory of His father not seen .

It would seem you have it backwards. A person can't believe the thoughts of another person not seen unless they first gives you his interpretation . We are not saved by our own private interpretation .Every man has one like fingerprints. God makes us differ from another . As Paul declared.. What do we have that we have not freely received? And if we have the faith needed to hear God, why boast falsely as if it was of us?

 

[Waggles]

This might seem like a basic question but maybe people would like to share.

Jesus and the Father call people to themselves and the true gospel - Acts 2:38-39
People hear the gospel and respond with either belief (interest) or unbelief (denial).
When a person commits to the gospel and to the commandments of God they act on their faith, or rather put their faith into action,
and then are water baptised by full immersion and also baptised in the Holy Spirit (with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues).
When a believer (disciple) receives the Holy Spirit, God also gives the gift of faith to uphold and strengthen a new convert.
Then our walk becomes a twofold cord - ourselves and God working together to build up faith and knowledge and wisdom through
daily praying in the Spirit and in overcoming our trials and tribulations.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Faith is a gift (eph 2:8,9)

1. In that passage "gift" refers to "saved" (salvation) NOT "faith.

Eternal life is God's gift to the one who believes. See the entire 5th chapter of Romans, and Romans 6:23 (as well as many other passages).

2. There is a spiritual gift of faith given to those who have ALREADY BEEN SAVED.

3. There is also a fruit of the Spirit which is faith, in those who have ALREADY BEEN SAVED.

4. But if saving faith were indeed a gift to UNSAVED SINNERS, it would be given to all mankind. And here's the reason why:

1 TIMOTHY 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)

So those who have another accursed gospel are the Calvinists, who claim to uphold God's sovereignty while at the same time distorting and corrupting the true Gospel of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You have got it BACKWARDS. God regenerates those who believe Christ and receive Him (John 1:12,13). '

But since you have "another gospel" everything will be backwards.

Verse 14, which you failed to include, tells us who will receive and believe and it is those which were (past tense) born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. ALL scriptures must harmonize to be the doctrine that Jesus taught. You can not just ignore the ones that you want to in order to make eternal salvation by the works of man, instead of by the grace of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1. In that passage "gift" refers to "saved" (salvation) NOT "faith.

Eternal life is God's gift to the one who believes. See the entire 5th chapter of Romans, and Romans 6:23 (as well as many other passages).

2. There is a spiritual gift of faith given to those who have ALREADY BEEN SAVED.

3. There is also a fruit of the Spirit which is faith, in those who have ALREADY BEEN SAVED.

4. But if saving faith were indeed a gift to UNSAVED SINNERS, it would be given to all mankind. And here's the reason why:

1 TIMOTHY 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30,31)

So those who have another accursed gospel are the Calvinists, who claim to uphold God's sovereignty while at the same time distorting and corrupting the true Gospel of God.

If I am not mistaken, I have given you an explanation of these same verses before. Some people have to hear it several times before it soaks in due to their false indoctrination. In 2 Pet 3:9 we have to determine who Peter is speaking to and it tells us in 2 Pet 1:1 that it is to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is teaching them the importance to repent when they lust after the things of the world, even including himself by using the word "USWARD". God does not want any (of his elect) to perish (lose their fellowship with him because he cannot fellowship with sin). Repentance of breaking a spiritual law only comes from those who can discern spiritual laws, unlike the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14. The "ALL MEN" in 1 Tim 2:4 is all of the elect men. All scriptures must harmonize to be the doctrine that Jesus taught.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus and the Father call people to themselves and the true gospel - Acts 2:38-39
People hear the gospel and respond with either belief (interest) or unbelief (denial).
When a person commits to the gospel and to the commandments of God they act on their faith, or rather put their faith into action,
and then are water baptised by full immersion and also baptised in the Holy Spirit (with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues).
When a believer (disciple) receives the Holy Spirit, God also gives the gift of faith to uphold and strengthen a new convert.
Then our walk becomes a twofold cord - ourselves and God working together to build up faith and knowledge and wisdom through
daily praying in the Spirit and in overcoming our trials and tribulations.

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Only God's SHEEP (regenerate - born again) can hear his voice.

 

[garee]

Jesus and the Father call people to themselves and the true gospel - Acts 2:38-39
People hear the gospel and respond with either belief (interest) or unbelief (denial).
When a person commits to the gospel and to the commandments of God they act on their faith, or rather put their faith into action,
and then are water baptised by full immersion and also baptised in the Holy Spirit (with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues).
When a believer (disciple) receives the Holy Spirit, God also gives the gift of faith to uphold and strengthen a new convert.
Then our walk becomes a twofold cord - ourselves and God working together to build up faith and knowledge and wisdom through
daily praying in the Spirit and in overcoming our trials and tribulations.

Ok then your kind of what you call faith comes when you hear yourself make a noise and the noise confirms a person received the Holy Spirit?

 

[NayborBear]

It would seem those who do not hold to those five principle set forth in scripture twisty-doodles it all up with their pride and arrogance at least according to my opinion today. What's the one true difference according to you? And if you could add two three references from the bible that you thing support your hope?

The one true difference?
Traditions of man, which makes void the Word of God! Jesus said that.
Romans 8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ya, ya ya! I know....Christ IS God! Christ IS God! Right?

As much as many people put all their eggs in Christ's basket? In doing so? Never ever think, save in passing, that Christ was sent! Christ didn't come! He was sent!
Meaning? Christ HAS A FATHER!
Haggai 1
3 Then came the word of the Lord by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
5 Now therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.

 

[garee]

1. In that passage "gift" refers to "saved" (salvation) NOT "faith.

Salvation is the work of faith that comes from hearing God . Not after our fleshly minds as the seat of imagination. Faith is the gift. Previously having none, nada, zip...faith is the gift by which we can understand Him who remains without form.

A person can say; what if some who do not have the faith of Christ will it make the work of faith that God works in others without effect? To effect someone is to work . Is it not our living God who does work in us to both will and do his good pleasure as a way of showing us His faith does work in those who have freely been given it. Do we make that "work of His faith" as a labor of His love in us to no effect? If so how could we ever let him, not seen be true and every man seen, a liar?

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Roman3:3-4

 

[garee]

The one true difference?
Traditions of man, which makes void the Word of God! Jesus said that.
Romans 8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ya, ya ya! I know....Christ IS God! Christ IS God! Right?

As much as many people put all their eggs in Christ's basket? In doing so? Never ever think, save in passing, that Christ was sent! Christ didn't come! He was sent!
Meaning? Christ HAS A FATHER!
Haggai 1
3 Then came the word of the Lord by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
5 Now therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.

Hi thanks, I agree.

How does that apply to the five principles in question?

Christ as eternal God who remains without mother or father using the term father and Son so that we can understand the nature of salvation .But God is not a man as us. Father like Son are terms used to represent those two immutable attributes as one savior .
When we try and separate God from God we can run into many troubles. Attributes not persons. God is jealous. God is Holy . God is Spirit. God is light. God who is not a man as us, is one, as if he was two .

 

[NayborBear]

Hi thanks, I agree.

How does that apply to the five principles in question?

Christ as eternal God who remains without mother or father using the term father and Son so that we can understand the nature of salvation .But God is not a man as us. Father like Son are terms used to represent those two immutable attributes as one savior .
When we try and separate God from God we can run into many troubles. Attributes not persons. God is jealous. God is Holy . God is Spirit. God is light. God who is not a man as us, is one, as if he was two .

What I think? I think you are way out there....somewhere?
Wait a minute? Hold on.
Here you are! Is this really what you believe?
Sure sounds like this is who you are proclaiming!
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[garee]

What I think? I think you are way out there....somewhere?
Wait a minute? Hold on.
Here you are! Is this really what you believe?
Sure sounds like this is who you are proclaiming!
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

God sits in the unseen holy place of faith. I am under the sun. Where are you standing?

How does the five principles that you accredit to some person no longer here apply to your understanding. Is God a man as us, or does he remain supernatural without a beginning of Spirit life or end thereof , without nature?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1. In that passage "gift" refers to "saved" (salvation) NOT "faith.

I agree with this.

I've read (in Greek grammar type references) that words need to "agree in gender and number," and in this verse "faith" is "feminine," but "this/that" is "neuter"... Plus, if you carry the thought into what the next verse is stating, where it says "not of works," what is THAT about? but "salvation" also (meaning, the thought is carried through, grammatically).

Eternal life is God's gift to the one who believes. See the entire 5th chapter of Romans, and Romans 6:23 (as well as many other passages).

I'm thinking of Romans 6:23 as well.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I've read (in Greek grammar type references) that words need to "agree in gender and number," and in this verse "faith" is "feminine," but "this/that" is "neuter"... Plus, if you carry the thought into what the next verse is stating, where it says "not of works," what is THAT about? but "salvation" also (meaning, the thought is carried through, grammatically).

You've made some excellent points, and since I am not a grammarian, I did not even take that approach.

But I simply don't understand how CHRISTIANS are blithely willing to twist the Word of God to hold on to their false doctrines. We see this over and over again.

 

[tumeric]

if anyone knows the answer to that question they would be a super preacher

 

[MadHermit]

How does one believe? Ah, how posters have ducked the plain sense of this question throughout the thread!
First, you can't just choose to believe. If I put a gun to your head and said, "Believe in a literal tooth fairy or I'll shoot!" you could tell me what I want to hear, but you COULD NOT choose to believe in the tooth fairy.

Second, you can only believe if the Holy Spirit draws you to Christ and He may engage in that process while you are only dimly aware that this is happening. As famed evangelical writer, C. S. Lewis puts it in his book "Surprised by Joy,"
"One day I was driven to Whipsnade Zoo. When I got in the car, I didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God. But when we arrived at the zoo, I did. Yet I hadn't exactly been engaged in thought about the matter during the drive." Just before this happened, Lewis says: "I was riding a bus and this question oddly seem to impose itself on my mind, "You are like a lobster trapped in its shell. Are you willing to unbuckle the shell or not?"
T
hird, you can facilitate the Holy Spirit's role by opening the door of your heart with an honest and open spiritual quest that includes the claims of the Gospel.

 

[piroma]

if anyone knows the answer to that question they would be a super preacher

super preacher who can impart the faith not only to talk about it in the right way

and everybody should know if he is in the faith or not
and which one -his own or in God's Faith

not in everyone faith
example - 12 apostles