Free Grace or Faith and Works?

[seed_time_harvest]

Grace is the first gift but it takes faith on our part to accept.

Yes faith and In this context,the faith that a man would use, It would be called believing without seeing.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So these ones' who call it "works salvation?" Are these ones' truly in Christ Jesus? So as to justify their condemnation of others', whose efforts towards progressive and continuous sanctification (which I myself call, "efforts" in keeping my election assured). ?

I don't want to go that at and offend someone In error.The part where you say you call sanctification "keeping my election assured"I think keeping my rewards sure sounds better.

 

[NayborBear]

Works Salvationist seem to be talking as If they weren’t GODs workmanship first.

They talk as If they can do these things of themselves but without JESUS they could not do anything but be brought Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In their flesh.

Not to despair STH. The Father chastens (corrects) those He loves!

To use Jaybirds analogy of a baby? I have not seen a baby YET, of ANY kind, that ENJOYS being WEENED!
One could very well use the term of TOUGH LOVE, by the mother, in HER efforts of weening her offspring.
I'm CERTAIN the offspring runs around crying, and screaming, "I'm GONNA DIE!!" "I"M GONNA DIE!!!"
"I'VE BEEN CUTOFF!!" "WOE IS ME!!"

Some? Simply refuse to be weened, and go running round and round looking for something instead of Mother's milk.
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a (THIS) lie:

I know this sounds rather "harsh", don't it?
But, is it any less harsher, that, which Adam did to God?

Man are such "funny" creatures! Forgetting in who's image they are created in, yes?
Whereas, man can have and hold certain emotions! Yet, the Father is forbidden to! (God in a box)
"I'm gonna DIE!!" "I'M GONNA die!!"

Solution? Ask Jehovah Roi (Jehovah my shepherd), in Christ, to "show you the way."

 

[NayborBear]

I don't want to go that at and offend someone In error.The part where you say you call sanctification "keeping my election assured"I think keeping my rewards sure sounds better.

2 Peter 1
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Rewards? Election? Six of one? Half Dozen of the other.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

2 Peter 1
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Rewards? Election? Six of one? Half Dozen of the other.

Calling and election sure are talking about progressive sanctification and maintaining rewards unless the person believes that they can MAINTAIN salvation by effort.

 

[NayborBear]

Calling and election sure are talking about progressive sanctification and maintaining rewards unless the person believes that they can MAINTAIN salvation by effort.

Could ya provide an example of this "works=salvation?"

 

[NayborBear]

Could ya provide an example of this "works=salvation?"

And, neither can I give you one.

 

[jaybird88]

That's what I have been trying to tell you about work.Work Is done by the REBORN Christian,It's called renewing the mind as you walk on this planet but GOD looked at your HEART when you got saved and this required believing the WORD of GOD on your part and did not require works,just like the thief on the cross believed for salvation and did not have to do physical work to receive salvation.

what you call mind renewing, i call work and obedience. i personally like saying work / obedience because its straight and to the point, no one is going to confuse it with something else. mind renewing may mean different things to different people, just as the law was fulfilled and the law is written on your heart.

Yes,I have not heard a works salvationist say that they don't need JESUS,I don't think I have ever heard ANYONE say that,but I do think they think that GOD will judge one sin bigger than some other sin trying to make GOD equal to thinking the way a man would think.

i think some sins are different than others. blasphemy against the Spirit is a sin but unlike other sins it can not be forgiven.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Could ya provide an example of this "works=salvation?"

I'll say that a works equal salvation type thinking person will always look at their sin as not as big as your sin,they look at the outward man and Paul was telling them that they did the same thing as the textiles because they thought as long as we are not seen by man breaking the law then we are ok but GOD looks at the heart,If a person does thes4 things

Could ya provide an example of this "works=salvation?"

I’ll provide a scripture that will give you an example of the outward man’s thinking and the Inward man’s thinking.

Luke 18:11-14
King James Version


11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
+++
GOD looks at the heart.
+++
Paul was telling them that they did the same things as the gentiles.
If a person Is not sinning physically It doesn’t mean that they don’t lustfully think about doing that sin.
+++
The thing though Is that once GOD makes the spirit new,the person Is no longer under the law but under grace.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I'll say that a works equal salvation type thinking person will always look at their sin as not as big as your sin,they look at the outward man and Paul was telling them that they did the same thing as the textiles because they thought as long as we are not seen by man breaking the law then we are ok but GOD looks at the heart,If a person does thes4 things
I’ll provide a scripture that will give you an example of the outward man’s thinking and the Inward man’s thinking.

Luke 18:11-14
King James Version


11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
+++
GOD looks at the heart.
+++
Paul was telling them that they did the same things as the gentiles.
If a person Is not sinning physically It doesn’t mean that they don’t lustfully think about doing that sin.
+++
The thing though Is that once GOD makes the spirit new,the person Is no longer under the law but under grace.

Sorry about that unreadable part,I meant to edit that out but I ran out of time.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

what you call mind renewing, i call work and obedience. i personally like saying work / obedience because its straight and to the point, no one is going to confuse it with something else. mind renewing may mean different things to different people, just as the law was fulfilled and the law is written on your heart.


i think some sins are different than others. blasphemy against the Spirit is a sin but unlike other sins it can not be forgiven.

I meant mind renewing as the same as progressive sanctification which IS works,good works where you get rewarded.

 

[NayborBear]

I'll say that a works equal salvation type thinking person will always look at their sin as not as big as your sin,they look at the outward man and Paul was telling them that they did the same thing as the textiles because they thought as long as we are not seen by man breaking the law then we are ok but GOD looks at the heart,If a person does thes4 things
I’ll provide a scripture that will give you an example of the outward man’s thinking and the Inward man’s thinking.

Luke 18:11-14
King James Version


11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
+++
GOD looks at the heart.
+++
Paul was telling them that they did the same things as the gentiles.
If a person Is not sinning physically It doesn’t mean that they don’t lustfully think about doing that sin.
+++
The thing though Is that once GOD makes the spirit new,the person Is no longer under the law but under grace.

Yeah? I've has occasion to meet up with more then a coupla people in churches of stone I've been to over the years.
One of the reasons I don't attend churches of stone anymore.

Too many times, I've asked myself, and God: "Just who, or what God, or Jesus are these people worshiping here?"
Come to find out, they are just like these people:
Matthew 23
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Then, when I tries to tells 'em:
Matthew 23
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Then? They come off with:
1 Peter 4
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 5
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. gossip? and worse?

So? How you fix this?
Me? I came to the conclusion some time ago. I cannot truly convert anyone! I can only allow God in the converting of myself. Haven't been through the doors of many churches of stone, ever since.

 

[obedienttogod]

In order to be within the Amazing Grace of God, you must first have FAITH there is a God to grant you such Grace.

Makes no sense to speak about Grace until you accept there is a God who warrants Grace...

Head knowledge = I think there is a God
Heart Knowledge = I know and believe there is a God = FAITH

Once your Heart knowledge knows there is a God, your head knowledge will soon catch up!!

But factually speaking:
You must first KNOW there is a God (this is FAITH) before you can claim to understand God granted you GRACE by dying for us!!

 

[Blik]

The above is a false accusation without merit.....more dishonesty comes from those that teach a losable salvation than the snake when he added one word in the garden!!

The above statement by BLIK is false, not true, not of God and contrary to the truth with no basis of truth. merit and or HONESTY!!

I think I have earned a scolding, I went too far to make a point. But boy, you take the cake when it comes to going too far to make a point.
Christ warns against saying you fool, but I am of a snake (the devil) and teaching of the devil? Wow!!!

I say saved people are those who love and live for the Lord and you say that is the devil speaking. You think you are speaking from scripture?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

what you call mind renewing, i call work and obedience. i personally like saying work / obedience because its straight and to the point, no one is going to confuse it with something else. mind renewing may mean different things to different people, just as the law was fulfilled and the law is written on your heart.


i think some sins are different than others. blasphemy against the Spirit is a sin but unlike other sins it can not be forgiven.

Some don’t know what blasphemy against the HOLY SPIRIT Is.
It Is a sin at the heart level,a spiritual sin.
I mean blasphemy that can not be forgiven.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think I have earned a scolding, I went too far to make a point. But boy, you take the cake when it comes to going too far to make a point.
Christ warns against saying you fool, but I am of a snake (the devil) and teaching of the devil? Wow!!!

I say saved people are those who love and live for the Lord and you say that is the devil speaking. You think you are speaking from scripture?

Try honesty......and read the context of what I said.....What you said was FALSE, deceptive, not true and not of GOD.....and You know full well I was not referencing the bolded in what you said.......is there no HONESTY in those that claim Christ anymore...??

dcontroversal said:
The above is a false accusation without merit.....more dishonesty comes from those that teach a losable salvation than the snake when he added one word in the garden!!

The above statement by BLIK is false, not true, not of God and contrary to the truth with no basis of truth. merit and or HONESTY!!

 

[jaybird88]

Try honesty......and read the context of what I said.....What you said was FALSE, deceptive, not true and not of GOD.....and You know full well I was not referencing the bolded in what you said.......is there no HONESTY in those that claim Christ anymore...??

dcontroversal said:
The above is a false accusation without merit.....more dishonesty comes from those that teach a losable salvation than the snake when he added one word in the garden!!

The above statement by BLIK is false, not true, not of God and contrary to the truth with no basis of truth. merit and or HONESTY!!

blah, blah, blah........ your wrong DC, you know you are.

 

[Blik]

Try honesty......and read the context of what I said.....What you said was FALSE, deceptive, not true and not of GOD.....and You know full well I was not referencing the bolded in what you said.......is there no HONESTY in those that claim Christ anymore...??

dcontroversal said:
The above is a false accusation without merit.....more dishonesty comes from those that teach a losable salvation than the snake when he added one word in the garden!!

The above statement by BLIK is false, not true, not of God and contrary to the truth with no basis of truth. merit and or HONESTY!!

After the post you made you want ME to try honesty, I will pray for you. Being a part of God is so great and so much of the opposite of what you are creating. I'll put you on ignore as not acting in a Christian way. I was following you as a Christian, I feel taken in. I hope you have somehow just picked me to act so hateful toward. Before, you have not been opposed to Christianity.

 

[dcontroversal]

blah, blah, blah........ your wrong DC, you know you are.

Not hardly pal......and you calling evil good proves who really leads you man!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Wha

After the post you made you want ME to try honesty, I will pray for you. Being a part of God is so great and so much of the opposite of what you are creating. I'll put you on ignore as not acting in a Christian way. I was following you as a Christian, I feel taken in. I hope you have somehow just picked me to act so hateful toward. Before, you have not been opposed to Christianity.

What you said was false.....your accusations were false....ALL can read and keep digging your hole of dishonesty = more proof that religionists are false.....