Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him

[justpassinthrough]

The rapture and the second coming are 2 different things.
He comes for his bride first.

The 5 foolish virgins follow as a martyred innumerable number.
They are in heaven early on in the gt.
Rev 14 has a gathering.
So in your placement,you have 2 groups PRECEEDING the general resurrection of saint in 1 thes 4.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

 

[Melach]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

the reason why this could be a different coming is because of john 14:1-3 this verse is hard to be fulfilled if no pre-trib rapture since we would turn back and go to earth instead of heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

In the parable of the 10 virgins we see a vivid depiction of Jesus ciming for his bride.
He took her home,not back to her territory.
Postribs have jesus taking her BACK to her territory.
The uturn is a fabrication of man.

 

[garee]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

I would say the final two part ressurection in a living hope of our new bodies the last day. The Old heaven and earth up in smoke never to rise out of the ashes new spirt life. . Never to come to mind forever more. He is here reigning with us today. That began when the veil was rent the time of reformation the graves were opened saints not seen are sleeping . Last days are here.

 

[justpassinthrough]

In the parable of the 10 virgins we see a vivid depiction of Jesus ciming for his bride.
He took her home,not back to her territory.
Postribs have jesus taking her BACK to her territory.
The uturn is a fabrication of man.

All just opinion really.


The scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians 4-5 plainly teach that these three distinct things happen at the coming of the Lord.


If you disagree with one of these things not occurring at the coming of the Lord, then please point it out and explain your position.



It’s all plainly written right here in 1 Thessalonians:

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming.


Three distinct and irrefutable things that take place at His coming: In order.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

 

[justpassinthrough]

I would say the final two part ressurection in a living hope of our new bodies the last day. The Old heaven and earth up in smoke never to rise out of the ashes new spirt life. . Never to come to mind forever more. He is here reigning with us today. That began when the veil was rent the time of reformation the graves were opened saints not seen are sleeping . Last days are here.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

 

[Absolutely]

These three things take place at the coming of the Lord.

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming.






JLB

....and 1 thes 3 says at the coming he brings his saints.
I wonder how they got there to be coming with Him.

 

[Absolutely]

All just opinion really.


The scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians 4-5 plainly teach that these three distinct things happen at the coming of the Lord.


If you disagree with one of these things not occurring at the coming of the Lord, then please point it out and explain your position.



It’s all plainly written right here in 1 Thessalonians:

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming.


Three distinct and irrefutable things that take place at His coming: In order.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

If postrib rapture is impossible,why would I beat a dead horse?

If you compile my verses, you will see the same thing.
Fact. - The dead in Christ rise first. So that means the dead in Christ can not rise second or any point after the rapture.
Fact. - Jesus gathers (raptures) a group to heaven,during the gt,in rev 14.
That means there CANNOT BE a resurrection of dead in Christ at the end of the gt.( that removes the dead rising first)
So,I never pursue a postrib rapture,because 1) it is an impossibility.
And 2) the bible does not teach it anywhere. Nada....zippo

 

[Absolutely]

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-15



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.


The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


Do you believe this is the first coming or second coming?




JLB

Instead of. "1st,2nd,3rd,coming" note in the rapture,Jesus does not touch the earth.
As in the parable of the 10 virgins,no uturn.
The second coming at yhe end of the gt is not the rapture.
Note in rev 14 Jesus does not touch the earth either,and yet we see him come for the ripe fruit. (Jews).DURING THE GT!

So 2nd coming is not what you think.
Yes there is a second coming,only it is not mentally discerned.
Like "DAY OF THE LORD",second coming is not singular or one dimensional.

 

[justpassinthrough]

....and 1 thes 3 says at the coming he brings his saints.
I wonder how they got there to be coming with Him.

Real simple.

They died.

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-15




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

If postrib rapture is impossible,why would I beat a dead horse?

If you compile my verses, you will see the same thing.
Fact. - The dead in Christ rise first. So that means the dead in Christ can not rise second or any point after the rapture.
Fact. - Jesus gathers (raptures) a group to heaven,during the gt,in rev 14.
That means there CANNOT BE a resurrection of dead in Christ at the end of the gt.( that removes the dead rising first)
So,I never pursue a postrib rapture,because 1) it is an impossibility.
And 2) the bible does not teach it anywhere. Nada....zippo

If postrib rapture is impossible,why would I beat a dead horse?

If you compile my verses, you will see the same thing.
Fact. - The dead in Christ rise first. So that means the dead in Christ can not rise second or any point after the rapture.
Fact. - Jesus gathers (raptures) a group to heaven,during the gt,in rev 14.
That means there CANNOT BE a resurrection of dead in Christ at the end of the gt.( that removes the dead rising first)
So,I never pursue a postrib rapture,because 1) it is an impossibility.
And 2) the bible does not teach it anywhere. Nada....zippo

]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JPT

 

[Absolutely]

]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JPT

Rev 14 his one and a half coming

 

[Nehemiah6]

The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

Correct. It is one event, with the resurrection preceding the rapture.

Do you believe this is the first coming or second coming?

Since Christ comes "in the air" momentarily ("in the twinkling of an eye") but does not descend to the earth, this is only His coming for His saints.

However, the Second Coming is the literal visible coming of Christ to earth WITH His saints and angels for the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19). Therefore there is only one coming, and the Resurrection/Rapture cannot be combined with the Second Coming for many reasons.

 

[Absolutely]

Instead of. "1st,2nd,3rd,coming" note in the rapture,Jesus does not touch the earth.
As in the parable of the 10 virgins,no uturn.
The second coming at yhe end of the gt is not the rapture.
Note in rev 14 Jesus does not touch the earth either,and yet we see him come for the ripe fruit. (Jews).DURING THE GT!

So 2nd coming is not what you think.
Yes there is a second coming,only it is not mentally discerned.
Like "DAY OF THE LORD",second coming is not singular or one dimensional.

Rev 14 is a gathering,coming,rapture by Jesus.

Is this the first or second coming?

 

[Absolutely]

Real simple.

They died.

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-15




JPT

When you read it in context it does not say what you make it say.
You are combining what is not possible into everything you bring forth.
A postrib rapture is impossible as you are placing the dead in Christ resurrected after the gathering of rev 14.
Since you frame 1st and 2nd as your pivotal issue.
Which is FIRST....REV 14 HARVEST or the dead in Christ.
Which is First?

 

[Absolutely]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

Rev 14;
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Is this the first or second coming?

 

[Absolutely]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Here we see the resurrection and rapture are one event that happens at His coming.



Which coming do you believe this is?


The first coming or second coming?




JLB

Rev 7
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them

If the rapture is post trib,what are these who died doing in heaven before the supposed dead in Christ resurrected post trib?

 

[Absolutely]

These three things take place at the coming of the Lord.

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming.






JLB

Jesus comes for his bride pretrib
He comes for the remnant Jews in rev 14
He comes WITH his saints in rev 19

How many comings is that?

 

[Absolutely]

Three distinct things occur at the coming of the Lord.

1. Resurrection
2. Rapture
3. Destruction of the wicked, especially the antichrist!

All three events take place at the coming of the Lord.

• For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. And the dead in Christ will rise first: Resurrection
2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them: Rapture
3. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...And they shall not escape.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


Paul even makes it more specific in the second letter to the Thessalonians, about the destruction of the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



The antichrist is actually destroyed by the brightness of His coming.



Three distinct and irrefutable things that take place at His coming: In order.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

JPT

Ok,lets play your deal out. You say that at the end of the gt we have the rapture of the dead in christ and those 10 or 15 saints alive after the world is in complete shambles with men praying to die and hiding in caves.
You think somehow millions/billions of saints are alive on the planet after all the plagues and wrath of God.

Now lets see,you have people shouting " peace and safety" ????
Peace and safety???
That dog won't hunt

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

The 5 wise watch,wait,and look for Jesus,not a false Christ on a white horse.
You have not proven your position.
Postrib rapture ,which is your position,is poorly thought out.

I wasn't trying to prove my position. Sorry I am not here to partake of silly debates. I don't believe in any RAPTURE as the word is not in the BIBLE, will we be caught up in the air, YES, when? that I do not know. But Jesus tells us to pray and prepare for hard times. not to wait for a saving RAPTURE.

but none of my words will change the faith you have .

Only Holy SPIRIT will ever change our thoughts if we are wrong.