Not By Works

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Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
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The sad thing is these disputes are invented by their own hand.
It is always interesting a believer calling another believer that they are lying.

In the propoganda war of integrity and honesty, a lie needs to be declared honestly
so the other party can answer it or else it is just slander.

Anyone can say I am lying, except if I am just quoting scripture and commenting on it
that is not lying, it is expressing an interpretation, a view, an opinion.

The Lord encourages us to test everything, to explore and discover His love and grace,
to know His precepts and will, His ideas and His blessing.

So how is the lake poisoned so quickly unless perhaps they cannot walk in the light as
He is the light, and face the glorious truth of the victory of the cross over sin and death.
Thank you Jesus

21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22 Avoid every kind of evil.
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5

127 Because I love your commands more than gold, more than pure gold,
128 and because I consider all your precepts right, I hate every wrong path.
129 Your statutes are wonderful; therefore I obey them.
130 The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.
Psalm 119
Amen. Praise and Glory to our Almighty Living God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Two peas in a pod and both peddle what Cain peddled......He did not make the cut, nor will any that conflate salvation/justification with sanctification, or those that peddle a losable salvation or a salvation that must be maintained, kept or finished by works....!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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A process of growth and maturity SUBJECT to successes and or failures....the level of teaching, the kind of teaching, if they get MEAT or just MILK, truth, or watered down conflated false gospels.........and regardless.....NO ONE is ever completely sinless........because we are still BOUND in fallen bodies of SIN that are NOT subject to the word of GOD neither indeed can be......!!
because we are still BOUND in fallen bodies of SIN that are NOT subject to the word of GOD neither indeed can be

I have not heard this theology before or read it is scripture.
Our fallen bodies of sin are not subject to the word of God.

This is a concept I would like to explore.
My body reacts to what I tell it to do, through my nervous system.
All my actions come from me, at least all the ones I choose and I am responsible
for them unless I am dreaming, hallucinating, under the influence of drugs etc.

Maybe you mean whatever I do I have a free pass, murder, theft, rape, no problem.
This sounds gnostic and dualistic, if that is your position, ok.

But I would like to understand where this stands against these verses

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this
will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5

Seems like our bodies can send us to hell very easily and are answerable to the word of God.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
A process of growth and maturity SUBJECT to successes and or failures....the level of teaching, the kind of teaching, if they get MEAT or just MILK, truth, or watered down conflated false gospels.........and regardless.....NO ONE is ever completely sinless........because we are still BOUND in fallen bodies of SIN that are NOT subject to the word of GOD neither indeed can be......!!
It is obvious from this above declaration, 3 righteousness behaviour is not believed in.
Righteousness of faith, leads to cleansing and purification of the heart, righteousness of the heart,
which bears fruit in righteousness of behaviour, righteousness of action.

Put simply if you believe the flesh is evil and God is happy with whatever you do, there is no
path to walk with Jesus, or commands to obey ( one does not have to ) or hope for freedom
from the slavery of sin that binds the truly lost in their lives.

And there are members here who have been deeply bound in sin and God has freed them and
given them His grace and power to overcome, transforming them into His likeness and His ways.

But church people who are so straight laced, who would not do anything bad ever, think sin is
just this mild white lie, or occasional speeding, or getting angry with your neighbour, or telling
a joke that winds someone up. They do not know degredation, murder, families abused and
riped apart, bile of hatred and bitterness delivering people to a living hell, into which Jesus walks,
gives His healing and love and brings them out into His glorious light, of freedom, of care, of
simply being kind and honest, of speaking from the heart that some loves and cherishes them.

So those hyper legalists need to repent and be honest, to let care and forgiveness reign in them
and then they will begin to know the true Grace and Love that comes from on high to all those
who truly believe and confess He is Christ the Lord, Amen. Praise your Name dear Lord Jesus.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
What surprises me

I remember seeing a believer who was behaving very badly, saying terrible things yet claimed to
be a witness to God.

Some other believers started discussing how bad the believer needed to be in their behaviour to
be still accepted as a brother. There answer was they could do anything.

What is insane about this logic is a guy comes in murders a few people, meet God and burns in hell.
Another comes along, as a youngster comes to faith, gets older murders a few people meets God
and he resides in heaven. The only difference was a faith blip. Scripture clearly puts both these
people in Hell, because whatever faith the second had, he betrayed it 100%.

Now I am a merciful, loving, forgiving person. If someone killed one of my daughters and repented
came to faith and walked with the Lord, I could forgive them and accept the sin that boung them
they are now free of, and they are rightfully in heaven.

But the one who had faith but remains in agreement with sin, bound by it, and justifying who they
are before the Lord, are rightly put in hell. What you truly are determines where you end up, not
the blips along the way.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
6,276
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It is obvious from this above declaration, 3 righteousness behaviour is not believed in.
Righteousness of faith, leads to cleansing and purification of the heart, righteousness of the heart,
which bears fruit in righteousness of behaviour, righteousness of action.

Put simply if you believe the flesh is evil and God is happy with whatever you do, there is no
path to walk with Jesus, or commands to obey ( one does not have to ) or hope for freedom
from the slavery of sin that binds the truly lost in their lives.

And there are members here who have been deeply bound in sin and God has freed them and
given them His grace and power to overcome, transforming them into His likeness and His ways.

But church people who are so straight laced, who would not do anything bad ever, think sin is
just this mild white lie, or occasional speeding, or getting angry with your neighbour, or telling
a joke that winds someone up. They do not know degredation, murder, families abused and
riped apart, bile of hatred and bitterness delivering people to a living hell, into which Jesus walks,
gives His healing and love and brings them out into His glorious light, of freedom, of care, of
simply being kind and honest, of speaking from the heart that some loves and cherishes them.

So those hyper legalists need to repent and be honest, to let care and forgiveness reign in them
and then they will begin to know the true Grace and Love that comes from on high to all those
who truly believe and confess He is Christ the Lord, Amen. Praise your Name dear Lord Jesus.
remember , the same guy who wrote this DENIES the Biblical definition of sin.

how can one define righteousness and evil correctly when one defines sin incorrectly??
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Two peas in a pod and both peddle what Cain peddled......He did not make the cut, nor will any that conflate salvation/justification with sanctification, or those that peddle a losable salvation or a salvation that must be maintained, kept or finished by works....!!
Thank you dear Jesus that you are the judge not me, that you decide our destination.

12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did
he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.
13 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone
who does not love remains in death.
1 John 3

Cain failed because he murdered his brother, because his action were evil and his brother's
were righteous. I wonder where the connection is. Maybe this person is attempting to
metaphorically murder us, because their deeds are evil, which they claim they are bound to
and can do nothing about, while our actions are righteous.

Funny how the mirror seems to point at them not us.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
remember , the same guy who wrote this DENIES the Biblical definition of sin.
how can one define righteousness and evil correctly when one defines sin incorrectly??
Hi gb9, I am not about to join the sinners society for the failed.

I know love does not penetrate a hide of an ox, so God bless you, we will never agree
because our hearts respond very differently to the Lord.

Thank you Jesus that you put a heart of flesh in your people to weep with those who
weep and rejoice with those who rejoice.

I was talking to a brother tonight about helping kids in school who have created solid
immovable barriers to change and empathy to cope with abuse and difficult families.
To reach them you need a soft flexible loving heart, the heart of Jesus, and when you
connect these youngsters have a future, because they know someone knows and loves
them.

God bless you, and may His love continue to shine in your life, Amen
 
Dec 27, 2018
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dear friend macabeus are you a calvinist?
No. I believe that Jesus died for all and that Grace is resistable.

I do not claim to understand election, believe in depravity, that it takes a special work of Grace to lead a person to repentance, and believe in a modified form of perserverance of the saints. (that the truly elect will perservere and that there some who think they are elect are not, and fall away.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Thank you dear Jesus that you are the judge not me, that you decide our destination.

12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did
he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.
13 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone
who does not love remains in death.
1 John 3

Cain failed because he murdered his brother, because his action were evil and his brother's
were righteous. I wonder where the connection is. Maybe this person is attempting to
metaphorically murder us, because their deeds are evil, which they claim they are bound to
and can do nothing about, while our actions are righteous.

Funny how the mirror seems to point at them not us.
Calling people a Cainologist is a false accusation. That's all some people have here.

If anyone was a Cainologist, that would mean that they are rejecting Christ's provision for salvation. No one that I know of is rejecting Christ's provision of salvation. They are basically saying "let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". That's in the Bible by the way.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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What surprises me

I remember seeing a believer who was behaving very badly, saying terrible things yet claimed to
be a witness to God.



But the one who had faith but remains in agreement with sin, bound by it, and justifying who they
are before the Lord, are rightly put in hell. What you truly are determines where you end up, not
the blips along the way.
I thought you said you would go away in SHAME.....

Argueless said:
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

Is it obedience to God to LIE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT? Would God be pleased by lying to Him? Do you SOW to please the Spirit?

...DO NOT BE DECEIVED: GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who SOWS TO PLEASE THE SINFUL NATURE, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who SOWS TO PLEASE THE SPIRIT, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Galatians 6:7-8

Go and know for yourself what dcon's stance is re: LYING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT...then maybe you can share to us what your "HONEST and full of INTEGRITY" mentor have told you. I do expect that he will respond to you unless he's hiding something.
I remember some people were debating about Ananais and Saphira I don't know where you stood on that discussion, but maybe he's referring about that. Were Ananais and Saphira true believers and did they go to heaven? is your answer yes, no, or " I don't know"?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
No. I believe that Jesus died for all and that Grace is resistable.

I do not claim to understand election, believe in depravity, that it takes a special work of Grace to lead a person to repentance, and believe in a modified form of perserverance of the saints. (that the truly elect will perservere and that there some who think they are elect are not, and fall away.
The saved are preserved by God they do not persevere.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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The saved are preserved by God they do not persevere.
Yup.

Heb 7:25 (So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.)

I actually prefer the KJV for the above. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost"
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The saved are preserved by God they do not persevere.
They perservere BY HIS GRACE/PRESERVATION.

Perservere definition- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/persevere

Acts 24:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

So are y'all sayihg that Paul and the apostles were 'cainologists", because they taught perserverance?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Yup.

Heb 7:25 (So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.)

I actually prefer the KJV for the above. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost"
We perservere because He saves us to the uttermost.

Perservere definition- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/persevere

Acts 24:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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So who wants to be the first to argue with Luke and Paul's writings?

Perservere definition- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/persevere

Acts 24:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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So who wants to be the first to argue with Paul?

Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
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So who wants to be the first to argue with Luke and Paul's writings?

Perservere definition- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/persevere

Acts 24:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
well . maybe you could actually match the verse with what the verse actually says- Acts 24 22 is " then felix, who was well acquainted with the way, adjourned the proceedings....... not what you posted.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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The saved are preserved by God they do not persevere.
Believers do not perservere? What Bible are you reading?

Colossians Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 
Dec 27, 2018
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well . maybe you could actually match the verse with what the verse actually says- Acts 24 22 is " then felix, who was well acquainted with the way, adjourned the proceedings....... not what you posted.
OK , Acts 14:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

SO, believers do not perservere? They stop believing the Gospel and God saves them anyway. ALL OF THEM get tangled up in the weeds and get choked out and God saves them anyway? Interesting view of salvation