Not By Works

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UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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Believers do not perservere? What Bible are you reading?

Colossians Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
The promise of future good works is not the Gospel.

You confuse scripture relating to discipleship as though they were about salvation.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,679
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OK , Acts 14:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

SO, believers do not perservere? They stop believing the Gospel and God saves them anyway. ALL OF THEM?
I did not say that, I simply pointed out the mis-matched verse.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
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The promise of future good works is not the Gospel.

You confuse scripture relating to discipleship as though they were about salvation.
Where did I say anything about good works in the post you quoted. I only said that the elect perservere. And you said they don't perservere. But Paul and Luke says they do. SO who's right? You or Paul and Luke?

I'll stick with Paul and Luke thank you very much

...and is Colossians 1:22-23 about discipleship or salvation? How about the one in Hebrews 3 that I posted

Oh, yeah. You think you can be part of Jesus' house and not be a disciple. Anti lordship
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
The promise of future good works is not the Gospel.

You confuse scripture relating to discipleship as though they were about salvation.
The apostles were talking about "entering the Kingdom".
Where did I say anything about good works in the post you quoted. I only said that the elect perservere. And you said they don't perservere. But Paul and Luke says they do. SO who's right? You or Paul and Luke?

I'll stick with Paul and Luke thank you very much

...and is Colossians 1:22-23 about discipleship or salvation? How about the one in Hebrews 3 that I posted

Oh, yeah. You think you can be part of Jesus' house and not be a disciple. Anti lordship
Please tell me what Colossians 1:22-23 is saying? Is it talking about discipleship or salvation?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,491
11,626
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HAHAH the deceiver equates another member to an OX and then pronounces blessing on him....HAHHAHA
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,201
4,548
113
Where did I say anything about good works in the post you quoted. I only said that the elect perservere. And you said they don't perservere. But Paul and Luke says they do. SO who's right? You or Paul and Luke?

I'll stick with Paul and Luke thank you very much

...and is Colossians 1:22-23 about discipleship or salvation? How about the one in Hebrews 3 that I posted

Oh, yeah. You think you can be part of Jesus' house and not be a disciple. Anti lordship
Loadship salvation is front loading or back loading the Gospel ... Salvation is a gift, is not discipleship, is not fellowship, is not based on any human behaviors including perseverance

Salvation is status decreed by God....Justified ...end of story
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,491
11,626
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Cain failed because he offered his works....is identified as a lost and and false teacher in JUDE.......everyone that believes their works in any way, shape or form HELPS them to be saved or helps them to keep salvation is a CAINOLOGIST.........!!
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
Loadship salvation is front loading or back loading the Gospel ... Salvation is a gift, is not discipleship, is not fellowship, is not based on any human behaviors including perseverance

Salvation is status decreed by God....Justified ...end of story
Lordship salvation teaches that once you are saved, you are bought with a price and belong to Jesus. You are not your own.

A person who belongs to another person is a DOULOS.

A person who owns a doulos is a KURIOS. A kurios is A LORD.

If you are saved, Jesus is your LORD, end of story.

and believers perservere...

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
Cain failed because he offered his works....is identified as a lost and and false teacher in JUDE.......everyone that believes their works in any way, shape or form HELPS them to be saved or keep salvation is a CAINOLOGIST.........!!
Who believes that their works helps them to be saved or keep salvation? Not me, anyways.

Works follow salvation like smoke follows a fire.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
once you are saved, you are bought with a price and belong to Jesus. You are not your own.

A person who belongs to another person is a DOULOS.

A person who owns a doulos is a KURIOS. A kurios is A LORD.

If you are saved, Jesus is your LORD, end of story.

and believers perservere...

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
once you are saved, you are bought with a price and belong to Jesus. You are not your own.

A person who belongs to another person is a DOULOS.

A person who owns a doulos is a KURIOS. A kurios is A LORD.

If you are saved, Jesus is your LORD, end of story.

and believers perservere...

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Cain failed because he offered his works....is identified as a lost and and false teacher in JUDE.......everyone that believes their works in any way, shape or form HELPS them to be saved or helps them to keep salvation is a CAINOLOGIST.........!!
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,201
4,548
113
The apostles were talking about "entering the Kingdom".


Please tell me what Colossians 1:22-23 is saying? Is it talking about discipleship or salvation?
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

In context Paul is talking about a presentation to Christ being beyond reproach, this is about the worthy walk not about perseverance to stay saved.

Do we want to meet Jesus knowing we ran a good race or do we want to meet Him as utter failures or anywhere in between.
Paul wants us to have a worthy walk obviously other walks are possible
Not about salvation
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,491
11,626
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Who believes that their works helps them to be saved or keep salvation? Not me, anyways.

Works follow salvation like smoke follows a fire.
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

In context Paul is talking about a presentation to Christ being beyond reproach, this is about the worthy walk not about perseverance to stay saved.

Do we want to meet Jesus knowing we ran a good race or to we want to meet Him as utter failures.
Not about salvation
Wrong. All believers are holy in His sight, without blemish, and free from accusation.

If you think you can have a walk worthy enough to without blemish, you need to know you don't. It is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that makes you without blemish, holy in His sight, and free from accusation, NOT YOUR WALK.
 

azamzimtoti

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
438
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43
So who wants to be the first to argue with Luke and Paul's writings?

Perservere definition- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/persevere

Acts 24:22- Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Colossians 1:23- If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6- But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
No need to argue them as there is a tension in exhortation to continue in the faith and the fact the Jesus is able to save to the uttermost.

You are making a false dichotomy,
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
I am talking about AFTER justification. Do you ever grow beyond initial justification or do you just stay fruitless and barren of works. You have just resorted to a strawman argument.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,201
4,548
113
Lordship salvation teaches that once you are saved, you are bought with a price and belong to Jesus. You are not your own.

A person who belongs to another person is a DOULOS.

A person who owns a doulos is a KURIOS. A kurios is A LORD.

If you are saved, Jesus is your LORD, end of story.

and believers perservere...

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Yeah well there are more flavours than Basking Robbins so I do not pay much attention, mostly it is wrong and leads to people to perform under compulsion not love, not the law of liberty.