What does sanctification have to do with salvation?

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7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#101
#101
TooFastTurtle said:
Well said.

I also like to pad my statement with this: I am NOT saying we have absolutely no assurance of salvation. In fact I would say I have more assurance than a Calvinist could have, because how can you ever tell you are truly one of the elect?

We HAVE assurance of salvation, many comforting passages dealing with the security we have, IN CHRIST, and thats the key, Jesus Christ, those who abide in Him, have security. Those who choose to abandon the faith, no more security, its clear cut. No need to over complicate it. I rejoice in Christ.

Speaking of the vengeful spirit you mentioned, my guess is that they are not only trying to convince you, but they are trying to convince themselves of OSAS. You have so many passages you just got to explain away that it can be overwhelming.

Keep contending for the faith sis. May God bless you and yours richly.
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well there is only one faith, eh? :)

our security is IN Christ

the Spirit of God hovered over the waters before God began His creation of the world we live in

so He hovers now also over those created in Christ, whose works are evident by the Spirit upon them

I 'see' this contention surrounded by angels who fight for the truth of God with swords (the word of God) drawn and increasing opposition to what is true. a spiritual battle which far too many loose sight of

hey...God bless you and yours with His presence and fill you with praise for Him!
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#102
Apr 7, 2014
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#102
TooFastTurtle said:
Amen sister!

Listening to some baptist preachers, its almost a sin to stop sinning! :cool: (Its a joke, relax!)

The Bible is clear on the subject, for every and all proof-texts for OSAS there is surrounding context completely refuting the idea. The doctrine is debunked in every single N.T. book. Even the famous Galatians one which is twisted to teach a "do nothing" gospel.

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Now that opens a whole can of worms where the esoteric interpretation is put on all the warning texts and so it goes: "The TRULY regenerated/saved/justified will sow to the Spirit and the unsaved will sow to the flesh". The problem with this spin on it is: This is written to the church in Galatia, just like all the other epistles are adressed to believers, if this was the case this verse and all others alike would be completely void of all meaning, since its automatic that the truly saved WILL persevere. I got no problem with people believing that, I just dont think its true, but if they persevere praise the Lord

Thats not works-salvation, thats BIBLE. I dont know about you sis, but I know many people who were genuinely in the faith and then fell away.

I dont belong to this group, but the article is interesting to say the least, the esoteric gnostic dual-nature connection is present today, repackaged: http://churchofchristarticles.com/b...ncient-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved-2/
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In regards to Galatians 6:8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. In opposition to corruption, eternal life is produced by the Holy Spirit in those who put their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation.

You cannot infallibly know if those many people who you said were genuinely in the faith, then fell away, were genuinely in the faith to begin with. Judas Iscariot looked like the real to the remaining 11 disciples, yet Jesus said that Judas is a devil! Also, beware of the church of Christ! (Campbellism). They teach salvation by works. :cautious:
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
#103
Apr 10, 2019
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#103
mailmandan said:
In regards to Galatians 6:8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. In opposition to corruption, eternal life is produced by the Holy Spirit in those who put their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation.

You cannot infallibly know if those many people who you said were genuinely in the faith, then fell away, were genuinely in the faith to begin with. Judas Iscariot looked like the real to the remaining 11 disciples, yet Jesus said that Judas is a devil! Also, beware of the church of Christ! (Campbellism). They teach salvation by works. :cautious:
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You responded exactly as I mentioned in my post. Its always that same answer to all the warning passages. "Well the truly saved will sow to the Spirit and persevere and be sanctified".

Dont worry, I am not part of the church of Christ denomination (campbellism). I just enjoyed that particular writing. From what I know about them they preach holiness but seem like a "closed group" meaning they believe only those in their denomination are saved. I dont really agree with that.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#104
#104
mailmandan said:
In regards to Galatians 6:8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. In opposition to corruption, eternal life is produced by the Holy Spirit in those who put their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation.

You cannot infallibly know if those many people who you said were genuinely in the faith, then fell away, were genuinely in the faith to begin with. Judas Iscariot looked like the real to the remaining 11 disciples, yet Jesus said that Judas is a devil! Also, beware of the church of Christ! (Campbellism). They teach salvation by works. :cautious:
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well, since turtle and I were having that conversation, I'll say this. I am sure he can answer for himself, so I am just answering for me since I was actually a part of that convo

Jesus never thought Judas was one of the 12. in fact, Jesus said He chose the 12 and one of them was a devil (as you said)

Jesus needed that devil to serve a purpose .

however, Peter denied Jesus 3x's and Jesus restored him. I firmly believe Jesus will go out after the 'lost' sheep...one who was in the fold but went out on its own

there is no 'Campbellism' evident in those posts.

10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10

no campbellism. only why we are here in the first place. NO ONE said a single thing about salvation. however, we are not saved to warm a pew as most 'believers' are doing and have no clue about spiritual armor and frankly no need of it either

now don't take these remarks as personal to you because they are not meant that way at all

they are rather a response to the works argument in general that so many make while WRONGLY assuming someone is saying salvation + works

we are not. I certainly am not
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#105
#105
oops. both barrels it seems :whistle:
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#106
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#106
Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel.

The bible says Judas was a Apostle (which means he was saved). Many believe that you can stop believing in who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done and remain in the body of Christ. This is false doctrine from demon spirits.

Was Judas saved? Or did He go to hell?
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#107
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
113
#107
7seasrekeyed said:
well there is only one faith, eh? :)

our security is IN Christ

the Spirit of God hovered over the waters before God began His creation of the world we live in

so He hovers now also over those created in Christ, whose works are evident by the Spirit upon them

I 'see' this contention surrounded by angels who fight for the truth of God with swords (the word of God) drawn and increasing opposition to what is true. a spiritual battle which far too many loose sight of

hey...God bless you and yours with His presence and fill you with praise for Him!
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Somebody might ask,when was the waters that GOD hovered over created?
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#110
Apr 12, 2019
97
8
8
#110
MessageOfTheCross said:
Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel.

The bible says Judas was a Apostle (which means he was saved). Many believe that you can stop believing in who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done and remain in the body of Christ. This is false doctrine from demon spirits.

Was Judas saved? Or did He go to hell?
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New International Version
Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#113
Apr 12, 2019
97
8
8
#113
7seasrekeyed said:
so, what do you mean by

cannot sin

as your fav Bible verse?

and hello
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God cannot sin so the son of his too because he is born from God

this i like the most because this is the beginning of understanding of spiritual thing

but understanding of sin and not sin is coming from shadow of Christ
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#114
Apr 12, 2019
97
8
8
#114
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#115
#115
piroma said:
God cannot sin so the son of his too because he is born from God

this i like the most because this is the beginning of understanding of spiritual thing

but understanding of sin and not sin is coming from shadow of Christ
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English is not your first language...must be...French if you are in Belgium?

no God is without sin and Christ is without sin

I am sorry I do not quite follow you...I understand English is not your first language
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#116
Apr 7, 2014
25,490
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#116
piroma said:
New International Version
Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
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Amen! In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#118
Dec 9, 2011
14,133
1,803
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#118
What does sanctification have to do with salvation?
7seasrekeyed said:
ok huh

but no idea what you mean (shrugs)
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I really didn't understand what you meant In post 108 when you said are they going to ask?I'm thinking somebody might ask that question,pretty simple.
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#119
Apr 12, 2019
97
8
8
#119
7seasrekeyed said:
English is not your first language...must be...French if you are in Belgium?

no God is without sin and Christ is without sin

I am sorry I do not quite follow you...I understand English is not your first language
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why you need to follow me ?
why do you not need to follow Scripture ?

is it not the Holy Scripture says that who is born from God cannot sin ?

what's wrong and what is not English ?
bible text not English enough ?
Yes- it is translations

i have studied the bible in ancient Greek
the other languages not important for the truth- only to repeat and pass it through
but the understanding first from the Ancient Greek

to read the biblical texts one needs to think being compelled by spiritual logic -it is not novels but spiritual language

i just repeated the Scripture in some manner not distorting the sense of what is being cited

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which God is not without sin ?
the devil ?
yes

i was speaking about God which created the heavens and the earth
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#120
#120
piroma said:
why you need to follow me ?
why do you not need to follow Scripture ?

is it not the Holy Scripture says that who is born from God cannot sin ?

what's wrong and what is not English ?
bible text not English enough ?
Yes- it is translations

i have studied the bible in ancient Greek
the other languages not important for the truth- only to repeat and pass it through
but the understanding first from the Ancient Greek

to read the biblical texts one needs to think being compelled by spiritual logic -it is not novels but spiritual language

i just repeated the Scripture in some manner not distorting the sense of what is being cited

-------------

which God is not without sin ?
the devil ?
yes

i was speaking about God which created the heavens and the earth
Click to expand...

The only one that walked this earth who was sinless was Jesus Christ. No one else has reached perfection yet.
 
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