Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[obedienttogod]

Seriously??

It's not my belief, but if they had people on the scene, they were capable of writing the Didache as I claim!!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The Catholic Church claims the moment Yeshua told Peter to feed His sheep, the Catholic Church was born. So in that sense, there was.

they also teach Peter is the rock rather than Christ and teach succession of popes going back to Peter

and let's not forget idol worship with which it is rife and alms and selling pieces of the cross which they ran out of, even though they never had them to begin with, eons ago. so now they just entomb body parts of supposed saints and revere that

a very good religion indeed with human beings who cannot forgive their own sin, never mind someone else's, standing in place of the ONLY One who can forgive sin

 

[obedienttogod]

they also teach Peter is the rock rather than Christ and teach succession of popes going back to Peter

and let's not forget idol worship with which it is rife and alms and selling pieces of the cross which they ran out of, even though they never had them to begin with, eons ago. so now they just entomb body parts of supposed saints and revere that

a very good religion indeed with human beings who cannot forgive their own sin, never mind someone else's, standing in place of the ONLY One who can forgive sin

Indeed!!

They assume credit for Everything. Even made Peter a Pope hahahaha

 

[obedienttogod]

I need to go!!

Have a wonderful day Brothers and Sisters in Yeshua!!

 

[UnderGrace]

It's not my belief, but if they had people on the scene, they were capable of writing the Didache as I claim!!

Completely unrelated to the discussion. Replace "language" where you find the word "tongue(s)" and even by that one exercise you will see this doctrine fall apart.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Indeed!!

They assume credit for Everything. Even made Peter a Pope hahahaha

control

the devil's playground

 

[Wansvic]

Well, no Proof- so its better to believe it stopped anytime in the first centurys. And it seems that what startet in 1901 through Agnes Ozman is something, but not from God.
Otherwise you could found this teaching in the churchhistory.
What somebody is doing in bis private of course nobody knows.
But what you teach is not found in churchhistory. Why God should not reveal it at least to his servants?
Instead all bis children could not have this benefit.
This makes no sense for me.
The other Thing is how this pentecostal teaching came into this World. With People which acting and noising like animals. Which where out of controle of their sense.
I cant Read in the Bible that believers acting like this After baptism with the Holy Spirit.
And you use the scripture. Show me Please where anybody taught in the bible that if somebody got the Holy Spirit he has also to speak in tongues. If you can Show me, i can believe it. But dont Take acts. The Acts Events are no teaching, they are one Time Events with a Special goal.

It is interesting that one would exclude the instructions given in a book of the bible because they conflict with what an individual believes. Acts records the specifics of the birth of the NT church and gives instructions to be followed whether one likes it or not.
You state that speaking in tongues was only done as a sign that people were accepted from each national group. Acts 2:1-4 (Jews); Acts 8 (Samaritans); Acts 10:44-47(Gentiles). If your understanding was correct, there would be no need to record the events that took place in the individual lives of a group of disciples in Ephesus (Acts 19:5-6). These individuals repented, were water baptized in Jesus' name, and received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

 

[Wansvic]

Well, no Proof- so its better to believe it stopped anytime in the first centurys. And it seems that what startet in 1901 through Agnes Ozman is something, but not from God.
Otherwise you could found this teaching in the churchhistory.
What somebody is doing in bis private of course nobody knows.
But what you teach is not found in churchhistory. Why God should not reveal it at least to his servants?
Instead all bis children could not have this benefit.
This makes no sense for me.
The other Thing is how this pentecostal teaching came into this World. With People which acting and noising like animals. Which where out of controle of their sense.
I cant Read in the Bible that believers acting like this After baptism with the Holy Spirit.
And you use the scripture. Show me Please where anybody taught in the bible that if somebody got the Holy Spirit he has also to speak in tongues. If you can Show me, i can believe it. But dont Take acts. The Acts Events are no teaching, they are one Time Events with a Special goal.

In addition to my previous response (Post 367), Jesus spoke the following:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:15-17

Jesus also told Nicodemus that one hears the sound of the Spirit:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:6-8

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In addition to my previous response (Post 367), Jesus spoke the following:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:15-17

Jesus also told Nicodemus that one hears the sound of the Spirit:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:6-8

Aww. Your forgot the poison and snakes bit..

Why do people leave parts of scripture out?

And while we are at it. WHy did paul later say the HS will give ONE this gift, ONE that gift, ONE this other gift. And even another ONE this gift?

If all people get those gifts?

 

[wolfwint]

The Catholic Church claims the moment Yeshua told Peter to feed His sheep, the Catholic Church was born. So in that sense, there was.

So you believe tut RCc

It is interesting that one would exclude the instructions given in a book of the bible because they conflict with what an individual believes. Acts records the specifics of the birth of the NT church and gives instructions to be followed whether one likes it or not.
You state that speaking in tongues was only done as a sign that people were accepted from each national group. Acts 2:1-4 (Jews); Acts 8 (Samaritans); Acts 10:44-47(Gentiles). If your understanding was correct, there would be no need to record the events that took place in the individual lives of a group of disciples in Ephesus (Acts 19:5-6). These individuals repented, were water baptized in Jesus' name, and received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

I would add the disciples of John in acts 19, 1-6 as another group, (baptised through John) to the groups, jews, gentiles and samarians.
Where are the instructions in acts?

 

[wolfwint]

In addition to my previous response (Post 367), Jesus spoke the following:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:15-17

Jesus also told Nicodemus that one hears the sound of the Spirit:
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:6-8

You miss mark 16, 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
This all is fullfilled through the apostles.
If it is true for today, then why in the charismatic and pentcostal movements you still find sick people?
You cant take only a part of the scripture. Vers 18 belongs to vers 16 and 17.
And here you get another problem.
Because you say, all who do not speaking in tongues lack on believe.

 

[Wansvic]

Aww. Your forgot the poison and snakes bit..

Why do people leave parts of scripture out?

And while we are at it. WHy did paul later say the HS will give ONE this gift, ONE that gift, ONE this other gift. And even another ONE this gift?

If all people get those gifts?

I was responding to Wolfwint concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost, not the spiritual gift of tongues. They are two distinctly different things.
As far as the poison and snakes verse if did not pertain to what we were discussing. However, the Lord is stating that if one were to inadvertently be exposed to either His children would have His protection.

 

[Wansvic]

So you believe tut RCc

I would add the disciples of John in acts 19, 1-6 as another group, (baptised through John) to the groups, jews, gentiles and samarians.
Where are the instructions in acts?

The instruction is given initially by Peter on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38) and clearly acted on as seen in the examples concerning the Gentiles and Samaritans.
As for the disciples in Ephesus, they are individuals of one or more of the three national groups you mentioned; not another one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was responding to Wolfwint concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost, not the spiritual gift of tongues. They are two distinctly different things.
As far as the poison and snakes verse if did not pertain to what we were discussing. However, the Lord is stating that if one were to inadvertently be exposed to either His children would have His protection.

Yet many have died, So much for protection.

Yes I know they are two different things, they are not even related. Spiritual gifts are related to the anointing or pouring out of Gods spirit into us.
Where as spiritual baptism is God spiritual cleansing and making us right with God by immersing us into his death.

 

[cobalt1959]

Speaking in tongues is a controversial subject largely, I think, because of its widespread counterfeit manifestations sparked by modern short attention spans and the resulting need for instant gratification, which in turn leads to an unconscious attitude that the Holy Spirit must jump when we crack our whip! This thread will begin with a focus on the powerful spiritual impact of the authentic gift.

(1) To that end, I will first post a video on one of the most impactful revivals of all time, the Azusa Street revival that began in 1908, which has ultimately led to the conversion of 600 million Pentecostal and Charismatic converts globally or 1/4 of the world's Christian population!.

William Seymour was the central figure in that revival. He was the son of a Black slave and had been fired in his first pastorate within a week. That failure led to a heroic prayer vigil that ignited the revival, making William Seymour the most spiritually influential Black Christian who ever lived. Yet in my first 21 years in a Pentecostal church, I had never heard of Seymour! Unwitting racist attitudes seem to be the reason why few Pentecostals had heard of Seymour until recent decades. Seymour and his core group of African Americans sparked that revival, only to be forgotten in the aftermath as white leadership took over most of the fledgling Pentecostal movement. Here, then is the documentary on Seymour's role in the Azusa Street Revival:

azusa street revival documenary - Bing video

In subsequent posts, I will share (2) my own experience of Spirit baptism and then (3) my experience-based perspective on the best way to receive the gift of speaking in tongues. (4) Only then will I embark on a detailed defense of the need to strive for spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues. This defense will include a discussion of the role this gift is intended in the private devotional life of believers and a refutation of common counter-arguments.

You play a race card in the very first post? Really?

The Assemblies of God, which is a Pentecostal denomination teaches people about William Seymour in their seminaries and Bible colleges, so your statements are inaccurate, at best.

Statements of "then white leadership took over" are always going to be a non-starter unless the organization in question is reserved for one race of people only, to the exclusion of everyone else, which is also racist in and of itself. Since blacks comprise 13% of the population then any organization that is all-inclusive is going to have mostly white leadership, statistically, and it has nothing to do with "taking over." Pentecostalism in the US can't be confined to starting in one place by one person or group of people. It sprung up in several different places, so no one person or group is responsible for it's birth.

As for tongues, the gift was given to edify the church and to identify an Apostle as being a true Apostle. Paul actually downplays the importance of tongues, so Pentecostal/Charismatic groups focus on it's importance above everything else is actually not born out in scripture. Perhaps someone could explain to me exactly why some people feel this gift is so important in the 21st century.

 

[Wansvic]

You miss mark 16, 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
This all is fullfilled through the apostles.
If it is true for today, then why in the charismatic and pentcostal movements you still find sick people?

People are still being healed in Jesus' name today. And still, as in the bible, there are those throughout the world that remain sick. (Matt 13:58)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People are still being healed in Jesus' name today. And still, as in the bible, there are those throughout the world that remain sick. (Matt 13:58)

Yes I agree

But in mark 16, Jesus claims ALL will do these things, It WILL (not might) Accompany those who believe.

The fact it does NOT accompany ALL should make us question

 

[Wansvic]

Yet many have died, So much for protection.

Yes I know they are two different things, they are not even related. Spiritual gifts are related to the anointing or pouring out of Gods spirit into us.
Where as spiritual baptism is God spiritual cleansing and making us right with God by immersing us into his death.

Your comment:
And while we are at it. WHy did paul later say the HS will give ONE this gift, ONE that gift, ONE this other gift. And even another ONE this gift?

If all people get those gifts?
As I responded, Wolfwint and I were discussing the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Even so, your comment was related to the spiritual gifts.

Also, I would be cautious about mocking God's Word. (Mark 16:18) God does not lie-His Word is truth. The answer to why some have died playing around with snakes, etc. is not a lack of God's ability to protect. As I've stated before concerning this subject, man is not to tempt the Lord.

"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Luke 4:12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your comment:
And while we are at it. WHy did paul later say the HS will give ONE this gift, ONE that gift, ONE this other gift. And even another ONE this gift?

If all people get those gifts?
As I responded, Wolfwint and I were discussing the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Even so, your comment was related to the spiritual gifts.

Also, I would be cautious about mocking God's Word. (Mark 16:18) God does not lie-His Word is truth. The answer to why some have died playing around with snakes, etc. is not a lack of God's ability to protect. As I've stated before concerning this subject, man is not to tempt the Lord.

"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Luke 4:12

Who said mark 16 is Gods word. I have given you proofs as to why it is NOT gods word.

You saying it IS gods word just makes Gods word weak. Because God lied, and jesus himself said a non truth. As I have proven. (People HAVE died, and NOT all have those gifts)

And as I also showed. Baptism of the HS has NOTHING to do with tongues, nor is tongues the evidence it has happened. BECAUSE IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO ALL.

it can only be evidence if EVERYONE who has experienced this baptism SPEAKS in tongues, and as shown again, that is NOT the case, and never will be.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes I agree

But in mark 16, Jesus claims ALL will do these things, It WILL (not might) Accompany those who believe.

The fact it does NOT accompany ALL should make us question

Just because some church goers are not operating in this way does not mean they should not be.
Mark 16:17-18
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I am reminded of the words of Jesus:
"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith."