Questions on Perseverance of saints and Sanctification

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CherieR

CherieR

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#1
May 6, 2017
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#1
" Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"
1 Corinthians 1:8

"And the very God of peace santify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it"
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

How does God keep the believer in Jesus unto the day of redemption? Is this work of santification something God does in us in order to cause us to be blameless in Christ when Jesus comes back? Do we depend fully on God to keep us for salvation as well as to sanctify us fully so that when Christ comes back, we will be righteous and unashamed before him? Is the work of santification soley God's work or do we play a part as well?
 
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Guojing

Banned
#2
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#2
CherieR said:
" Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"
1 Corinthians 1:8

"And the very God of peace santify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it"
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

How does God keep the believer in Jesus unto the day of redemption? Is this work of santification something God does in us in order to cause us to be blameless in Christ when Jesus comes back? Do we depend fully on God to keep us for salvation as well as to sanctify us fully so that when Christ comes back, we will be righteous and unashamed before him? Is the work of santification soley God's work or do we play a part as well?
Click to expand...
This will turn out to be another faith vs works thread. :ROFL:
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#3
#3
Seeking to know and serve God's will is Its own reward. If you're not seeking His will then you must only be serving your own. We simply walk moment by moment, day by day as we wait upon Him. :)
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#4
Jun 11, 2018
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#4
CherieR said:
Is the work of sanctification solely God's work or do we play a part as well?
Click to expand...
Hi Cherie, interesting questions in your OP (y) Here are a few verses that come quickly to mind concerning the question from your OP that I quoted in this post:

Philippians 1​
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.​
​
Philippians 2​
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;​
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.​

God did and continues to do the 'heavy lifting' for us (if you will), from His drawing to regeneration to Glory, but I believe that we are involved in our own sanctification (~not~ in becoming or remaining Christians, of course, as that's all the Savior's doing alone .. cf Philippians 1:28, but we certainly participate with Him in our growing up in Christlikeness throughout our lives here I think).

Notice who v12 is addressed to, "my beloved", those who "have always obeyed". Paul is writing to believers here, telling them to work "out" their own salvation (not work up .. or work at .. or work for .. or work to sustain) with fear and trembling (holy awe/wonder) because it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

More on this tomorrow (Dv). It might be interesting to talk about the "ways" that we grow up in Him, IOW, how we've seen and continue to see ourselves now becoming more sanctified, and where/how we fit into that picture.

~Deut
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
#5
I have been studying to lead a bible discussion tonight on Phil 2. I am amazed what I have been finding out and reading.

I like how one person put it. It is working out what God worked in. In how God is the electic plant, supplying the will (our desire) and the power to work out the salvation he gave us, But we have control of the light switch. Basically God gives us all the motivation and will we require. But we have to actually use that power by making sure we turn the switch on to let that power do what it was designed to do.

Sanctification is of God. But we also have to be willing.. But he who began a good work, WILL complete it..
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#6
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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#6
CherieR said:
" Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"
1 Corinthians 1:8

"And the very God of peace santify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it"
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

How does God keep the believer in Jesus unto the day of redemption? Is this work of santification something God does in us in order to cause us to be blameless in Christ when Jesus comes back? Do we depend fully on God to keep us for salvation as well as to sanctify us fully so that when Christ comes back, we will be righteous and unashamed before him? Is the work of santification soley God's work or do we play a part as well?
Click to expand...
3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
1 John 3

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us
from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1

The key question is always have we opened up our hearts and let God purify us.
A heart of flesh or a heart of stone.

Stone hearted people will never understand because they are ok and nothing will
move them.

We become children of God because of this purification and the desire to know love
and walk in it.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#7
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
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113
#7
eternally-gratefull said:
I have been studying to lead a bible discussion tonight on Phil 2. I am amazed what I have been finding out and reading.

I like how one person put it. It is working out what God worked in. In how God is the electic plant, supplying the will (our desire) and the power to work out the salvation he gave us, But we have control of the light switch. Basically God gives us all the motivation and will we require. But we have to actually use that power by making sure we turn the switch on to let that power do what it was designed to do.

Sanctification is of God. But we also have to be willing.. But he who began a good work, WILL complete it..
Click to expand...
is this like being a co-worker with God for sanctification(not justification)? i like you friend. can i listen to your bible discussion somewhere?
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#8
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
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#8
CherieR said:
"And the very God of peace santify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it"
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
Click to expand...
If calvinism was correct then why would Paul even need to pray to God to preserve them blameless unto the coming of the LORD Jesus Christ..... If calvinist perseverance of the Saints was true Paul would never have felt the need to pray this prayer..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
Melach said:
is this like being a co-worker with God for sanctification(not justification)? i like you friend. can i listen to your bible discussion somewhere?
Click to expand...
We do not record them. Sorry bro.. it is just our small home church meeting, They record the big sunday services though..

I would not call it a co worker per say, But a cooperator maybe would be a better term? (Anyone have a better term to use?)

It is God who does all the work. We just get out of the way and let him do it. And stop trying to help or do it of our own power. .
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#10
May 23, 2016
4,314
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#10
CherieR said:
" Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"
1 Corinthians 1:8

"And the very God of peace santify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it"
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

How does God keep the believer in Jesus unto the day of redemption? Is this work of santification something God does in us in order to cause us to be blameless in Christ when Jesus comes back? Do we depend fully on God to keep us for salvation as well as to sanctify us fully so that when Christ comes back, we will be righteous and unashamed before him? Is the work of santification soley God's work or do we play a part as well?
Click to expand...
Someone once told me to stop saying it is "a let go and let God affair". Instead say, "it is a grab hold with God affair".
We are actively involved in sanctification, but it is still all God who does it. Anything we do is God in us!
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#12
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#12
Chester said:
Someone once told me to stop saying it is "a let go and let God affair". Instead say, "it is a grab hold with God affair".
We are actively involved in sanctification, but it is still all God who does it. Anything we do is God in us!
Click to expand...
Well, yes and no. Sometimes we must back off and just let God work. That said, God will not drag us to perfection kicking and screaming against Him. At times we are given options that we must apply to our lives according to God's word. Like in our attitudes toward forgiveness. Bottom line: the fruits of the Spirit should be evident or we need to reevaluate.
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#13
#13
Deade said:
Well, yes and no. Sometimes we must back off and just let God work. That said, God will not drag us to perfection kicking and screaming against Him. At times we are given options that we must apply to our lives according to God's word. Like in our attitudes toward forgiveness. Bottom line: the fruits of the Spirit should be evident or we need to reevaluate.
Click to expand...
Question.... When are we ever made perfect?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
#14
GtrPkr said:
Question.... When are we ever made perfect?
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Heb 10: 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

The moment of salvation.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#15
May 23, 2016
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#15
Part of the issue with being perfect is how the word "perfect" is used in KJV English.

We tend to think of "perfect" as meaning "spotless, pure, without fault". Most of the time the Greek word behind the KJV word "perfect" means "mature" instead of "faultless".

We are made "spotless, faultless" at our conversion, yet indeed! But then there is still a need to grow in"maturity" in our mortal, fleshly lives.
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#16
#16
I look at it more as being clothed "covered" by God's grace. Remember, there will still be a final war 1000yrs after His return. Have you ever wondered what that war could be about?
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#17
Dec 15, 2018
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#17
Well if we do what God tells us, thats our part.
If we dont, and then wonder what God is doing in our lives but it could be just didnt do what He told us, so He cant work without our cooperation. For example..

Lazarus was dead in the tomb and Jesus was going to call him out to raise him from the dead. But Jesus told Martha to roll the stone away first.

Why didnt Jesus roll the stone away himself? Or could Jesus have raised Lazarus by him somehow walking through a stone? Um...

Or how about Naaman, when Elisha told him to wash in the river Jordan three times or something like that, but at first Naaman refused to do so and just wanted to be healed right there and then of leprosy. He didnt really want to go out of his way and wash, but it was just a small thing on his part to do! Well when he finally did it God did the miracle and his skin was as soft as a babies.
 
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