Calvinism And Predestination

[ForestGreenCook]

thank you dear friend. thats the end of calvinism.

It is not the end of the truth that Jesus taught. Be careful about buying into false doctrines. God granted a free will for man to choose how he wants to live his life here on this earth, but man's eternal salvation is not by his own choice, but by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man. Even after we are eternally saved, God allows us by our choice to reject his will. We do this every time (as born again children of God) we lust after the things of this world and we repent when God pricks our heart of flesh and makes us to feel guilty .

 

[Melach]

It is not the end of the truth that Jesus taught. Be careful about buying into false doctrines. God granted a free will for man to choose how he wants to live his life here on this earth, but man's eternal salvation is not by his own choice, but by God's sovereign grace, without the help of man. Even after we are eternally saved, God allows us by our choice to reject his will. We do this every time (as born again children of God) we lust after the things of this world and we repent when God pricks our heart of flesh and makes us to feel guilty .

how can i be careful to not buy into false doctrines if i have no free will to buy into them? God decreed me not to be a calvinist dear friend. i appreciate many calvinist brethren and have no ill will to them in my heart. i just sincerely disagree

 

[NayborBear]

it looks to me like calvinism is very complicated. maybe its a issue with my mind

but its just very confusing to me. effectual call, general call, common grace irresistable grace, prescriptive will decretive will.
like there is two of everything. very hard to keep up with this

It's as simple and complicated as this:
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Meaning? If you aren't weaned from "milk?" None of Calvin's "take" on theology, is going to make any sense to ya.

 

[Melach]

It's as simple and complicated as this:
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Meaning? If you aren't weaned from "milk?" None of Calvin's "take" on theology, is going to make any sense to ya.

thanks for speaking to me like that. God will bless me for it

 

[NayborBear]

Perhaps you haven't read where I've written about what I believe "the fig tree" represents [instead of what you have here ^ suggested I believe ], or maybe I've not written a whole lot on that (since I've been on CC, I don't recall if I've mentioned it much), so I will put a portion of it here:

In Jesus' parables (at least one, Lk13) regarding "fig tree," it says, "A certain man had a FIG TREE planted *IN* his vineyard"... and Isaiah 5:7 says, "For the vineyard of the LORD of Hosts is the house of Israel...".

So, we notice a couple things: the "fig tree" IS DISTINCT FROM "his vineyard [which is 'the house of Israel']" IN WHICH the "fig tree" was planted. They are not the same thing, not identical entities!


[additionally, I believe ALL of Matthew 24-25 FOLLOWS our Rapture, incl'g Matt24:32 ]

Perhaps, you are correct!
I haven't, and don't read much, many, or all, of any of your postings. As I find that, in this particular posting anyway, that you have taken the term I used "fig tree", and twisty doodled it up into your "strawman" conceptual argument, concerning "vineyard." Of the term "vineyard", I didn't even make mention of.

I can see the "why" your posts, might be "appreciated" by some, I would liken to call "higher critics", concerning the Word of God. But, what this tells me? Is your "relentless" usages of exterior sources, in your strivings of making "a point", is that the Word of God lies "outside" of you, and not within you.

 

[NayborBear]

thanks for speaking to me like that. God will bless me for it

My hope is He does indeed!

 

[Grandpa]

how can i be careful to not buy into false doctrines if i have no free will to buy into them? God decreed me not to be a calvinist dear friend. i appreciate many calvinist brethren and have no ill will to them in my heart. i just sincerely disagree

I've said before that the theology of Calvin is not for the new or baby Christian.

I sincerely hope that there are none reading any of our arguments as they will make no sense but only serve to confuse.

Before we are given Knowledge we must think as the Arminian that we CAN make good decisions and WE CAN make God act and react to us and give us Salvation. We must try as hard as we can with all the goodness and strength that we possess so that we can know without a doubt that our way is FUTILITY.

Those who demand that Calvinism is false have not found out this most essential truth. Or if they think they have they excuse it somehow thinking that their best try is good enough....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

i agree the reap is opposite sequence but why does it say let them grow together until? if rapture happens before it, isnt that a separation before?

[…]
i remember you told me matthew 24:31 is reference to isaiah 27:13. so its not referred to

I'll try to get back on later tonight, to cover this... right now I gotta dash (important meeting)...

you always say i dont read your posts but i do and i value them and like you.

Glad to know it, thank you for saying.

 

[Melach]

I've said before that the theology of Calvin is not for the new or baby Christian.

I sincerely hope that there are none reading any of our arguments as they will make no sense but only serve to confuse.

Before we are given Knowledge we must think as the Arminian that we CAN make good decisions and WE CAN make God act and react to us and give us Salvation. We must try as hard as we can with all the goodness and strength that we possess so that we can know without a doubt that our way is FUTILITY.

Those who demand that Calvinism is false have not found out this most essential truth. Or if they think they have they excuse it somehow thinking that their best try is good enough....

this sounds like a prideful statement from calvinism side. like the rest of christians are just too immature spiritually to get it. you said your arguments only serve to confuse, this is true calvinism is very confusing but i say its not because of us being too new to understand it, its because it really is confusing! like God doesnt know what to do with His own decrees. tells people to repent and sends prophets day and night like jeremiah but why if He is the one who just doesnt give them irresistabel grace, without that the total depraved people can never repent. so prophets is a waste of time to send.

God is not the author of confusion, and our dear brother TheDivineWatermark already took out calvinism by this post, he said it in previous page:

"About the "decretive [G1012 - boulen] will" :

Luke 7:29-30 [blb] -

29 And all the people having heard, even the tax collectors, declared God righteous, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 Butthe Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the counsel [G1012 - boulen] of God as to [eis] themselves, not having been baptized by him.

This "G1012 - boulen" word is the same word in Ephesians 1:11 that Calvinists point to in order to make their case regarding how His "decretive-will [determined-plan/decree-G1012-boulen]" cannot ever be "rejected/resisted," but we see in Luke 7:29-30 that the Pharisees and lawyers did just that (re: themselves) during the time-frame that John's baptism was His will [decretive-will, G1012] and "in play," so to speak.

Some argue that "they were only doing what God decreed for them to do," but that isn't the point I'm making; I am pointing out how Calvinism says that "His decreed-will [G1012 - boulen] CANNOT be resisted or rejected," but THIS text states that these individuals did that very thing ("rejected the will [G1012 - boulen] of God" eis/unto themselves, "being not baptized of him [John]"). "

 

[Nehemiah6]

I've said before that the theology of Calvin is not for the new or baby Christian.

Nor for mature Christians who know Gospel truth and Bible truth. Scripture REFUTES Calvinism.

 

[NayborBear]

Nor for mature Christians who know Gospel truth and Bible truth. Scripture REFUTES Calvinism.

Then, allow me to offer you a challenge.
Matthew 9
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

(meaning) Ask the Lord of the Harvest (by name/title) to Harvest you! In Jesus' name, that is.

Everyone should do this!

 

[NayborBear]

this sounds like a prideful statement from calvinism side. like the rest of christians are just too immature spiritually to get it. you said your arguments only serve to confuse, this is true calvinism is very confusing but i say its not because of us being too new to understand it, its because it really is confusing! like God doesnt know what to do with His own decrees. tells people to repent and sends prophets day and night like jeremiah but why if He is the one who just doesnt give them irresistabel grace, without that the total depraved people can never repent. so prophets is a waste of time to send.

God is not the author of confusion, and our dear brother TheDivineWatermark already took out calvinism by this post, he said it in previous page:

"About the "decretive [G1012 - boulen] will" :

Luke 7:29-30 [blb] -

29 And all the people having heard, even the tax collectors, declared God righteous, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 Butthe Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the counsel [G1012 - boulen] of God as to [eis] themselves, not having been baptized by him.

This "G1012 - boulen" word is the same word in Ephesians 1:11 that Calvinists point to in order to make their case regarding how His "decretive-will [determined-plan/decree-G1012-boulen]" cannot ever be "rejected/resisted," but we see in Luke 7:29-30 that the Pharisees and lawyers did just that (re: themselves) during the time-frame that John's baptism was His will [decretive-will, G1012] and "in play," so to speak.

Some argue that "they were only doing what God decreed for them to do," but that isn't the point I'm making; I am pointing out how Calvinism says that "His decreed-will [G1012 - boulen] CANNOT be resisted or rejected," but THIS text states that these individuals did that very thing ("rejected the will [G1012 - boulen] of God" eis/unto themselves, "being not baptized of him [John]"). "

It seems confusing because "meatier" Biblical truths REQUIRES "spiritual discernment" in their understanding of them.
Otherwise? It's like the sky. Over yer head.
This too, may sound "prideful!"
But, it AIN'T!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then, allow me to offer you a challenge.
Matthew 9 38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.... (meaning) Ask the Lord of the Harvest (by name/title) to Harvest you! In Jesus' name, that is. Everyone should do this!

That is not even the meaning of this verse. It is addressed to the ones who have ALREADY BEEN HARVESTED (saved) and must pray for more laborers in the harvest field (including themselves).

How in the world do Calvinists manage to turn Scripture on its head?????

 

[NayborBear]

That is not even the meaning of this verse. It is addressed to the ones who have ALREADY BEEN HARVESTED (saved) and must pray for more laborers in the harvest field (including themselves).

How in the world do Calvinists manage to turn Scripture on its head?????

I take it you didn't, or more correctly, couldn't, take up the challenge I offered!
Oh ye of such little faith!

 

[NayborBear]

That is not even the meaning of this verse. It is addressed to the ones who have ALREADY BEEN HARVESTED (saved) and must pray for more laborers in the harvest field (including themselves).

How in the world do Calvinists manage to turn Scripture on its head?????

James 5 New International Version (NIV)
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

 

[calibob]

James 5 New International Version (NIV)
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Great answer!

 

[Nehemiah6]

James 5 New International Version (NIV)
Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

Another passage TAKEN TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT. When will you ever learn???

 

[Melach]

Another passage TAKEN TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT. When will you ever learn???

dear friend. i looked into it carefully and i see that in calvinism they have a few texts they use to prove it, like john 6:44, romans 9 ephesians 1, but there are so many other verses too that say things like compel them to come.

i dont know. i try to always remain friendly but im afraid calvinism could be pushing the boundary because how can you tell anyone Jesus died for them if you dont know it?

all churches believe in universal atonement except this one reformed movement

 

[Nehemiah6]

dear friend. i looked into it carefully and i see that in calvinism they have a few texts they use to prove it, like john 6:44, romans 9 ephesians 1, but there are so many other verses too that say things like compel them to come.

I don't know why you were surprised when I said that that passage was taken totally out of context.

NayborBear started out by claiming that Matthew 9:38 meant this: Ask the Lord of the Harvest (by name/title) to Harvest you!

But that is not even the meaning of that passage, which is what I told him. Then he comes along and quotes from James just because both passages speak about a harvest! Once again James has nothing to do with the subject, neither does Matthew 9:38.

The subject was this (my comment): Nor for mature Christians who know Gospel truth and Bible truth. Scripture REFUTES Calvinism.

 

[Grandpa]

Nor for mature Christians who know Gospel truth and Bible truth. Scripture REFUTES Calvinism.

Scripture confirms Calvinism.

Its just your poor understanding of them that makes you think they are refuted.