Been watching a lot about the quran.. Misled?

Sophrosyne · Apr 20, 2019

hello, I've been stumbling about some videos online about the quran, and i'd like to share them with you, instead of just writing..
Video starts at 1:14

Please pray for me, as in i'm being brain washed? and im confused.

here's another one

what i am doubting is, IS Jesus God? or a prophet? I know what he said, I am before Abraham was.
But he also prayed to THE God/father, saying why have you left me? I'm wondering.. Why would he pray to himself?
Theres a lot of things im recently confused about, for an example when he curses the fig-tree, if he was GOD in physical form, surely he would have known that it wasnt the season to produce figs? please dont call me names like "Lost cause" or "brainwashed" as in i just need guidance and needs theological answers...
I've got a lot of questions, and i would appreciate if people saw the 2 videos i've shared, before commenting, cause then they can understand why im so confused. Please reply..

Rosemaryx · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

Hi...I hope someone comes along soon to answer your questions in much more detail than I can...

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God...
Yes Jesus is God , and although I understand it myself , I will wait for someone who can explain better than me...

Keep seeking and you will find the truth , the whole truth...xox...

Noose · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

In simple terms:

1. Jesus is God who came to demonstrate sonship - the reason He prayed.
2. The story about the figs is a parable with a spiritual lesson, and one theme in the bible is that every tree that doesn't give fruit in season will be cut down and thrown in the lake of fire.

azamzimtoti · Apr 20, 2019

The intro to the vid is using the words attributed to Mohammed, but the saying "When you see barefooted, unclothed bedouins competing" is actually from the Sahih Muslim Hadith and not the Quran.

Without the full context of the statement from this Hadith and a qualified English translation it's hard to comment on this other than all the end of the world scenarios from any region are iffy.

GtrPkr · Apr 20, 2019

Sorry, I only made it about 10 minutes into that first video.... Now I see clearly what you mean by "brainwashing".
God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one and always have been from the foundation of the earth. 3 forms of God in 3 different places for 3 different purposeses all st the same time, only the one true God can do that. Here's a good video for you if you really want to understand islam. Peace brother

posthuman · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

He took humanity upon Himself to redeem humanity by perfect righteousness. seeing Him as man is seeing the perfect image of God in perfect humanity, like a shadow is a 2d image of a 3d form. and when He came, He didn't reveal Himself by the flesh, but by the Spirit - teaching in parables 'so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' ((John 9:39))
on the cross He quoted in a loud voice a song, Psalm 22, and it is the only time He called the Father 'God' -- to understand what He is doing when He does this, you have to understand the song, what - and who - it is a picture of. i don't mean, just, it foretells His suffering. it is also a song about His people, how they thought themselves forsaken when they were really not, even in the midst of their own salvation. Jesus was not mistaken, neither was He forsaken.

the fig tree also is a symbol of His people

That fading flower, his glorious beauty, set on the head of a fertile valley, will be like figs ripe before harvest-- as soon as people see them and take them in hand, they swallow them.
(Isaiah 28:4)

and something interesting about figs is that they sometimes produce fruit out of season. what He did in searching out the fig tree and withering it is far more than a simple act like a man hoping to find something good to eat and being upset that he didn't. this is the Living God, Creator of the universe, not someone who wasn't quite up to speed on agricultural knowledge. like the parables He taught in, like the sayings on the cross, like the profound mystery of setting aside His glory, being born as a man, hiding Himself in flesh, this is an extremely complex, perfect and marvelous sign.

don't read the things Jesus does and says as if they are things an ordinary - tho maybe uncommonly wise - person is doing. they are things that Almighty God is doing and saying, and doing and saying them among a people to whom He said 'let them be seeing, and not perceiving, hearing and not understanding' -- until all those He has appointed to life have come to believe ((Isaiah ch. 1, Matthew ch. 13)). they are not simple and if you only take them at face value, you will miss an extraordinary depth of meaning -- so much so, that any one thing - like the fig tree - you could spend your entire life studying and meditating on, and barely scratch the surface. reading this book, to understand it fully, is like setting out on a bicycle to go to the end of the universe. the destination is very far above, and you will only reach it if He carries you there . . .

Nehemiah6 · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

Now that you know those videos are garbage, stop watching such videos. Indeed I would suggest that for the time being you stop watching all videos. Just read the Bible, and focus on what it says. And ask God to help you understand the truth.

The Bible easily settles the question of whether Jesus is God in several passages, the best one being Hebrews 1:8-10:

8 But unto the Son [JESUS] he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God [JESUS], even thy God [THE FATHER], hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord [JESUS], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands...

PaulNew · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

ok
first video, after a few seconds I knew I didn't want to hear that man speak any more, so, 33 minutes, impossible!
second video, I watched it, and thought it was complete rubbish.

now, here is the truth...

you don't know where you came from.
you don't know why you are here.
you don't know what happens to you after you die.
and, for all your efforts, you cannot change the color of your eyes.

so, accept your circumstances.
you are helpless. Accept it!
and then hope everything is not all for nothing.

you are here for a reason.

And you can choose to believe in Love if you want to.

Forget everything you have ever learned or heard.
Forget the Bible and the Quran.
If the One who made you Loves you, then you are safe. Try to believe that.

And, to find that One, look at your fingers.
Stretch them out.
Bend them.
Look at the Sky, and know Him.

Books and Words are the work of men.

Know that He can speak to you through a flower and a rain-drop.

Believe He Loves you, and you are safe.

Talk to Him.

===========
(The fig tree is a metaphor for the Old Covenant which proved that souls could not be made Holy through the law.
So, when Jesus drove out the impurity from the temple, He cursed the fig-tree of the law and said no one will be sanctified by law.
The law will never bear fruit.
And so now, the fruit of sanctification is made available to all through faith in the person of Jesus Christ.
If you tread the Way called Jesus Christ you will find yourself at Home with the One)

===========
I will say a prayer for you.

MattforJesus · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

The Bible says that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.

Jesus is both God and man.

The Bible says that there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

For only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God.

No man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

And all who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will receive the Spirit, and be God and person in harmony.

The man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God.

Which God glorified that body, and sits on the throne in heaven, which is the invisible God's visible relationship to the saints forever.

For no person can see God unless He shows them a visible image of Himself, which He appeared twice to Abraham in a body made of the earth, and once to Samson's parents as the Angel of the Lord, for they said they had seen God, and lived.

The Bible says that the heaven and the heaven of heaven cannot contain God, for He is an omnipresent Spirit.

For a visible manifestation of God cannot be all of God, so how can Jesus be God, when God means supreme being, and Jesus is a visible image of God.

That is what throws some people off believing that Jesus is God, for God is so much bigger, and greater than that, and some say how can God have a Son.

Jesus is God and man, and when on earth spoke from both positions concerning dealing with people, and how they recognized Him.

The Bible says that Jesus dwells in the light, which no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus, and no person will ever see Jesus, for Jesus is the invisible, omnipresent Spirit.

Jesus in a visible manifestation does not mean He is limited to that body, and that is all there is to Him, for He is God.

When the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh it means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the God head bodily, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell, and He has the Spirit without measure.

Where the saints have partial attributes, and have the Spirit of God, but are not considered to have the deity of God like the man Christ Jesus.

And the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for He cannot be separated.

So Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty space where the Spirit is not at, for the Spirit is omnipresent.

But the man Christ Jesus moves through the Spirit, and where ever He is at the Spirit is there, and He does not carry around a part of the Spirit separate from the Spirit.

The same as the saints that they do not have their own personal Spirit that moves with them, but they move through the Spirit, and where ever they are at the Spirit is there.

Which helps to understand how Jesus can be in a visible image, but be God an omnipresent Spirit at the same time.

The Bible says that there is one God the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, and made according to the flesh.

So the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which He glorified that body, and sits on the throne in heaven, the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus, and His visible relationship to the saints forever, where the Spirit is His invisible relationship to the saints.

For mankind are sinners, and all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, which means no person can approach a holy God for salvation, so there has to be a sinless man to reconcile the world unto God, which the mediator is the man Christ Jesus.

Which God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power, for He does not need to mediate anymore, that God may be all in all.

So it is easy to understand why Jesus is God, and both God, and man, and a visible image of God, and why He is the Savior of the world for He reconciled us to God because He is sinless, and He is sinless because He is the personal human body of God, and God does not sin, so the man Christ Jesus would not sin.

The Son is not God according to the flesh, but He is God according to the Spirit, which He was conceived by the Spirit of the virgin Mary.

Which when on earth Jesus did not pray to Himself, but it was the man Christ Jesus that prayed to God, for even though He was sinless He still had to do in accordance of what a saint is to do to be right with God, and to fulfill the law, which John said that Jesus did not need to be baptized, but He said He had to do it to fulfill all righteousness, for it is part of the operation of God for people.

Jesus said before Abraham, I am, and that He is Lord and Master, for He is God.

But also said to Mary go tell the disciples that I ascend to My Father, and your Father, and My God, and your God.

And when a man said to Jesus, good Master, He said why call Me good, for there is only one good and that is God.

And when on the cross He spoke according to His humanity, and said My God why have you forsaken Me, although He said earlier the Father would never leave Him.

And according to His humanity said the Father is greater than Me.

But also said I and My Father are one, for Jesus is both God, and man.

So Jesus is a visible image of God, but He also appeared twice to Abraham in a visible image, but even though it is not God in all His glory of an omnipresent Spirit of God, it is still God showing a visible image of Himself, and if that is the case then it is not another being, but the body of God, so it is God.

God can do it no other way to have a visible relationship with people, for we cannot see the invisible Spirit of God, and He is an omnipresent Spirit, so He can only show a small portion of Himself in a visible image, but He is still God.

But some will say how can Jesus be God, but they do not understand how it can be, but the Bible explains how it can be.

Jesus is only a small portion of God shown to people, visible, but He is still God an omnipresent Spirit, for we cannot see Jesus as God for He is invisible, and if we could see His Spirit we could not see all of it for He is omnipresent.

Even if we could see the Spirit, we would never be able to see all of God anyway, for our eyes can only see so far.

So all we can see is a portion of God whether we can see the Spirit or not.

Jesus is God, and man.

delirious · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

Do you believe God can tell the future? One of the greatest evidences for Jesus being God is that he said certain things would happen within His generation and they did just like He said. For example:

Matt 24:3, "When will these things be?" This was a questions the disciples were asking Jesus about when the temple would be torn down. Jesus replied in Matt 24: 34, "All these things will happen to this generation." And they did in 70 A.D.

Matt 23:35-37 Jesus says all the righteous blood from Abel to Zechariah would come upon that generation of the Jews. It did and the Jewish historian Josephus records 1.1 million Jews dying inside Jerusalem in 70 A.D. during the siege by the Romans. The Roman historian Tacitus records the same thing but has a smaller death count for the Jews at about 700,000.

Now you might think that this just makes Jesus a great prophet and not necessarily God but ask yourself this question: Would God give this type of knowledge to one of His prophets if he knew that prophet was going to falsely claim to be Him?

Luke 22: 66-71, "As soon as it was day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him into their council, saying, “If You are the Christ, tell us.” But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe. And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go. Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.” Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.” And they said, “What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.”

Will you believe Him?

stonesoffire · Apr 20, 2019

I never had any doubt that Jesus was God in flesh, but the information about the Memra of the Jews cinched it for me. And I used it in another forum with discussion with one who didn't believe He was God. Imrah is the hebrew word for Word of the Lord. He was then the Memra of God...and He manifested to them at times as the angel of the Lord.

Google it if you want to know more or search for Memra. Is too much for a post.

Not only this, but He is the God of Israel and in one instance when Moses ascended the mountain to speak with God, he went with men. He sprinkled blood of sacrifice upon all and then they started. The men stopped, conversed and ate with the God of Israel, and Moses went on to the mountain top alone with Father. That was Jesus before coming to earth as a babe. The Son.

The fig tree, one did touch on why Jesus cursed it. It's a symbol of Israel, and I agree with the other poster....He cursed it because Adam and Eve was thought to cover themselves after sinning with fig leaves. God changed this to skin. Blood was shed.

I truly hope you are not just wanting info from us but are an honest seeker. Not trying to be insulting but I know this happens.

garee · Apr 20, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

The Quran apposes the word of God. Why do you need to study it and have a conflicting manner of spirit ? If studying the one and only word of God as the one source of Christian faith the counterfeit stands out like a sore thumb.

A prophet is one that declare the word of God. A false prophet like Mohamed he declares the things of men as oral traditions . When we try to spirits to see if they are of God or of man the Quran proves to be false prophecy . Mohamed a false prophet

Those who abide in the Quran cannot abide in the bible/ No one can serve two masters in that way .

Adstar · Apr 21, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

hello, I've been stumbling about some videos online about the quran, and i'd like to share them with you, instead of just writing..
Video starts at 1:14

Please pray for me, as in i'm being brain washed? and im confused.

here's another one

what i am doubting is, IS Jesus God? or a prophet? I know what he said, I am before Abraham was.
But he also prayed to THE God/father, saying why have you left me? I'm wondering.. Why would he pray to himself?
Theres a lot of things im recently confused about, for an example when he curses the fig-tree, if he was GOD in physical form, surely he would have known that it wasnt the season to produce figs? please dont call me names like "Lost cause" or "brainwashed" as in i just need guidance and needs theological answers...
I've got a lot of questions, and i would appreciate if people saw the 2 videos i've shared, before commenting, cause then they can understand why im so confused. Please reply..

This is a video directed towards muslims dealing with the topic about Jesus being God in the Bible:: I hope it answers your concerns::

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

Jesus is The King, Final Prophet and God. Jesus human side prayed to the Father. The fact that the fig tree had leaves indicates it was summer when both leaves and figs are on the tree. Fig Trees requires fertilization, therefore that tree was not cared for. The fig tree in Scripture was also symbolic of Israel. I do not have speakers with my computer, so I do not bother with videos online. Please, ask serious questions in separate thread.

Hebrews 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God Has Spoken Through His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side[a] of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.

5 God never said this to any of the angels:
“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”
God also never said about an angel,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my son.”

Note: from Hebrew Scriptures that above is the language for God the Father adopting a king as his Son.

6 And then, when God presents his firstborn Son to the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]
7 This is what God said about the angels:
“He changes his angels into winds[d]
and his servants into flaming fire.”
8 But this is what he said about his Son:
“God, your kingdom will last forever and ever.
You use your authority for justice.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, has chosen you,
giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.”
10 God also said,
“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.
11 These things will disappear, but you will stay.
They will all wear out like old clothes.
12 You will fold them up like a coat,
and they will be changed like clothes.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”
13 And God never said this to an angel:
“Sit at my right side
until I put your enemies under your power.[e]”

Psalm 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
2 Why are the nations so angry?
Why are the people making such foolish plans?
2 Their kings and leaders join together
to fight against the Lord and his chosen king.[a]
3 They say, “Let’s rebel against them.
Let’s break free from them!”

4 But the one who rules in heaven laughs at them.
The Lord makes fun of them.
5 He speaks to them in anger,
and it fills them with fear.
6 He says, “I have chosen this man to be king,
and he will rule on Zion, my holy mountain.”

7 Let me tell you about the Lord’s agreement:
He said to me, “Today I have become your father,
and you are my son.
8 If you ask, I will give you the nations.
Everyone on earth will be yours.
9 You will rule over them with great power.
You will scatter your enemies like broken pieces of pottery!”

10 So, kings and rulers, be smart
and learn this lesson.
11 Serve the Lord with fear and trembling.
12 Show that you are loyal to his son,[c]
or the Lord will be angry and destroy you.
He is almost angry enough to do that now,
but those who go to him for protection will be blessed.

14 All the angels are spirits who serve God and are sent to help those who will receive salvation.

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

Sophrosyne said:

Jesus is The King, Final Prophet and God. Jesus human side prayed to the Father. The fact that the fig tree had leaves indicates it was summer when both leaves and figs are on the tree. Fig Trees requires fertilization, therefore that tree was not cared for. The fig tree in Scripture was also symbolic of Israel. I do not have speakers with my computer, so I do not bother with videos online. Please, ask serious questions in separate thread.

Hebrews 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
God Has Spoken Through His Son
1 In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways. 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things. 3 The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God’s nature, and he holds everything together by his powerful command. The Son made people clean from their sins. Then he sat down at the right side[a] of God, the Great One in heaven. 4 The Son became much greater than the angels, and God gave him a name that is much greater than any of their names.

5 God never said this to any of the angels:
“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”
God also never said about an angel,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my son.”

Note: from Hebrew Scriptures that above is the language for God the Father adopting a king as his Son.

6 And then, when God presents his firstborn Son to the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]
7 This is what God said about the angels:
“He changes his angels into winds[d]
and his servants into flaming fire.”
8 But this is what he said about his Son:
“God, your kingdom will last forever and ever.
You use your authority for justice.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, has chosen you,
giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.”
10 God also said,
“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.
11 These things will disappear, but you will stay.
They will all wear out like old clothes.
12 You will fold them up like a coat,
and they will be changed like clothes.
But you never change,
and your life will never end.”
13 And God never said this to an angel:
“Sit at my right side
until I put your enemies under your power.[e]”

Psalm 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
2 Why are the nations so angry?
Why are the people making such foolish plans?
2 Their kings and leaders join together
to fight against the Lord and his chosen king.[a]
3 They say, “Let’s rebel against them.
Let’s break free from them!”

4 But the one who rules in heaven laughs at them.
The Lord makes fun of them.
5 He speaks to them in anger,
and it fills them with fear.
6 He says, “I have chosen this man to be king,
and he will rule on Zion, my holy mountain.”

7 Let me tell you about the Lord’s agreement:
He said to me, “Today I have become your father,
and you are my son.
8 If you ask, I will give you the nations.
Everyone on earth will be yours.
9 You will rule over them with great power.
You will scatter your enemies like broken pieces of pottery!”

10 So, kings and rulers, be smart
and learn this lesson.
11 Serve the Lord with fear and trembling.
12 Show that you are loyal to his son,[c]
or the Lord will be angry and destroy you.
He is almost angry enough to do that now,
but those who go to him for protection will be blessed.

14 All the angels are spirits who serve God and are sent to help those who will receive salvation.

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

azamzimtoti said:

This Hadith was easy to handle,

First the paraphrase the film uses reads, as provided by you.

"He said:' To believe in Allah, His angels, His Messengers, His books, the Last day, and the Divine Decree (Qadar), both the good of it and the bad of it. ' He said 'You have spoken the truth.' We were amazed by him. He asked a question, then told him that he had spoken the truth. Then he said: 'O Muhammad, what is Ihsan (right action, goodness, sincerity)? He said: 'To worship Allah as if you see Him, for even though you do not see Him, He sees you.' He asked: "When will the Hour be?" He said: 'The one who is being asked about it does not know more than the one who is asking.' He asked: 'Then what are its signs?' he said: 'When the slave woman gives birth to her mistress' (Waki 'said: This means when non-Arabs will give birth to Arabs ")' and when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings. ' The Prophet (ﷺ) met me three days later and asked me: 'Do you know who that man was? I said "'Allah and his Messenger know best.' He said: 'That was Jibril, who came to you to teach you your religion.' " "

Now the real translation from Google Computer Literal Translation, Look for the buildings part highlighted.

"He said: "To believe in Allah and His angels, His messengers, His books, and the Day of Judgment, To worship Allah as if you see him, then if you do not see him, he sees you. "He said when the hour he said," What is responsible for the knowledge of the liquid. "He said what Amaratha said" to give birth to For the nation of her Lord. "He said," Wakiyya means to give birth to the Arab Ajam "and to see the barefoot nude, the shepherds, who graze in the building." Then he said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to me after three day"
https://sunnah.com/urn/1250630

As you can see the true translation is shepherds that graze in the building, Not those competing in building tall buildings. The fact that they add words that are not in the original text discredits the full films. No one should put any trust in such dishonest films.

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

PaulNew said:

We are on our knees praying too.

"
Muhammad's False Prophecies

Sam Shamoun

The Holy Bible gives us a test to determine a true prophet from a false one:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22

In light of what God says in the preceding passage, we will examine several predictions made by Muhammad in the Quran and Islamic traditions to see if whether he passes God's test.

On the Roman Conquest of Persia

S. 30:2-4:

"The Roman Empire has been defeated - in a land close by: But they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious - within a few years."

As the prophecy stated the Byzantines did become victorious over the Persians who had at first defeated them. Yet there are fundamental problems with this alleged prophecy:

According to Yusuf Ali the Arabic word for "a few years," Bidh'un, signifies a period of three to nine years; yet according to the historical records the victory did not come until nearly fourteen years later. The Persians defeated the Byzantines and captured Jerusalem at about A.D. 614 or 615. The Byzantine counter-offensive did not begin until A.D. 622 and the victory was not complete until A.D. 628, making it a period between thirteen to fourteen years, not "a few years" alluded to in the Quran.

Renowned historian and Muslim commentator, al-Tabari, places the Roman victory in 628 A.D. (6 A.H.), right after the signing of Hudaiybiya:

According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri- 'Ubaydallah b. 'Abdullah b. 'Utbah b. Mas'ud- 'Abdullah b. 'Abbas- Abu Sufyan b. Harb, who said: We were merchant folk. The warfare between us and the Messenger of God had prevented us from journeying, so that our wealth became depleted. After the truce between us and the Messenger of God, we feared that we might not encounter security. I set out for Syria with a group of merchants of Quraysh. Our specific destination was Gaza, and we arrived at the time of Heraclius' VICTORY over the Persians who were in his land - he expelled them and regained from them his Great Cross, which they had carried off. Having accomplished this against them and having received word that his cross had been rescued from them (he was staying at Hims), he set out from there on foot in thanksgiving to God for restoring it to him, to pray in Jerusalem. Carpets were spread out for him, and fragrant herbs were strewn on them. When he reached Jerusalem and performed his worship - with him were his military commanders and the nobles of the Romans - he arose troubled one morning, turning his gaze to the sky ... (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated by Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press, Albany 1997], Volume VIII, pp. 100-101; bold and capital emphasis ours)

The translator's footnote reads:

436. "In 627 Heraclius invaded the Persian empire, and in December of that year won an important victory near ancient Ninevah, but had to retreat shortly afterwards. In February 628, however, the Persian emperor was assassinated, and the son who succeeded him desired peace. By about March 628 Heraclius could regard himself as victorious, but the negotiations for the evacuation of the Byzantine empire by the Persians were not completed until June 629. In September 629 Heraclius entered Constantinople AS VICTOR, and in March 630 restored the Holy Rood to Jerusalem." (Watt, Muhammad at Medina, 113-114). See also Ostrgorsky, History of the Byzantine State, 103-4. (Ibid., capital emphasis ours)

The hadith collection of al-Bukhari provides further corroboration that Abu Sufyan's visit with Heraclius occurred after the signing of Hudaiybiya:

Narrated ' Abdullah bin 'Abbas:
That Abu Sufyan bin Harb Informed him that Heraclius called him and the members of a caravan from Quraish who had gone to Sham as traders, during the truce which Allah's Apostle had concluded with Abu Sufyan and the Quraish infidels. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 399)

Watt places Rome's complete victory at 630 A.D., fifteen to sixteen years after the so-called prophecy was given!

The original Quranic text had no vowel marks. Thus, the Arabic word Sayaghlibuna, "they shall defeat," could easily have been rendered, with the change of two vowels, Sayughlabuna, "they (i.e. Romans) shall be defeated." Since vowel points were not added until some time after this event, it could have been quite possible for a scribe to deliberately tamper with the text, forcing it to become a prophetic statement.

This fact is solidified by Muslim commentator al-Baidawi. C.G. Pfander mentions Baidawi's comments on the variant readings surrounding this passage:

"But Al Baizawi shatters the whole argument of the Muslims by informing us of certain varied readings in these verses of Suratu'r Rum. He tells us that some read غَلَبَتِ instead of the usual غُلِبَتِ, and سَيُغْلَبُونَ instead of سَيَغْلُبُونَ. The rendering will then be: 'The Byzantines have conquered in the nearest part of the land, and they shall be defeated in a small number of years'. If this be the correct reading, the whole story about Abu Bakr's bet with Ubai must be a fable, since Ubai was dead long before the Muslims began to defeat the Byzantines, and even long before the victories which Heraclius won over the Persians. This shows how unreliable such Traditions are. The explanation which Al Baizawi gives is, that the Byzantines became conquerors of 'the well-watered land of Syria' (على ريف آلْشام), and that the passage predicted that the Muslims would soon overcome them. If this is the meaning, the Tradition which records the 'descent' of the verses about six years before the Hijrah must be wrong, and the passage must belong to A.H. 6 at earliest. It is clear that, as the vowel points were not used when the Qur-an was first written down in Cufic letters, no one can be certain which of the two readings is right. We have seen that there is so much uncertainty about (1) the date at which the verses were 'sent down', (2) the correct reading, and (3) the meaning, that it is quite impossible to show that the passage contains a prophecy which was fulfilled. Hence, it cannot be considered to be a proof of Muhammad's prophetic office." (C. G. Pfander, Mizan-ul-Haqq - The Balance of Truth, revised and enlarged by W. St. Clair Tisdall [Light of Life P.O. Box 18, A-9503, Villach Austria], pp. 279-280; emphasis ours)

This being the case, a Muslim cannot confidently tell us what the true reading of the text is and hence cannot insure us that this verse originally predicted the Byzantine victory over the Persians. Yet either rendering leaves us with a false prophecy within the Quran.
"

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

This being the case, a Muslim cannot confidently tell us what the true reading of the text is and hence cannot insure us that this verse originally predicted the Byzantine victory over the Persians. Yet either rendering leaves us with a false prophecy within the Quran.

It amazes us that a prophecy from God would not specify the exact time of the victory, seeing that God is all-knowing and all-wise, declaring the end from the beginning. When God specifies a time frame as an important part of a prophecy we would expect that it be precise, not a mere guess. For God to guess that the Byzantines would win at some time within "a few years" as opposed to specifying the exact year, is inconsistent with the belief in an Omniscient, Omnipotent Being. Hence, it is unlikely that the true God would actually make such a prophecy.

Interestingly, the phrase "a few years" serves to further discredit this alleged prophecy. Abu Bakr believed the term "a few years" meant that the Byzantines were going to win in three years:

"This passage refers to the defeat of the Byzantines in Syria by the Persians under Khusran Parvis. (A.D. 615 - 6 years before the Hegira). However, the defeat of the Persians should take place soon 'in a small number of years'. In the light of this prediction, Abu-Bakr undertook a bet with Ubai-ibn-Khalaf that this prediction would be fulfilled within three years, but he was corrected by Mohammed who stated that the 'small number' is between three and nine years (Al-Baizawi). Muslims tell us that the Byzantines overcame their enemies within seven years. The fact, however, is that the Byzantines defeated Persia in A.D. 628 (Al-Baizawi commentary). That was twelve years after the prediction of Mohammed. Consequently this passage does not qualify as a prophecy, particularly as the time between prophecy and fulfilment was far too short, and in addition the event was easily predictable." (Gerhard Nehls, Christians Ask Muslims [Life Challenge, SIM International; Africa, 1992], pp. 70-71)

On Entering Mecca

Sura 48:27 makes the following promise:

"Truly did Allah fulfill the vision for His Messenger. Ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque, IF ALLAH WILLS, with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear. For He knew what ye knew not, and He granted, besides this, a speedy victory."

This verse was revealed in conjunction with the Muslims' failed attempt of entering Mecca to perform Tawaf (the ritual during Hajj of running between two mountains that was supposed to commemorate Hagar's fetching of water for Ishmael).

On their way to the Ka'bah, they were met with a Meccan deputation headed by Suhail b. Amr who forbade the Muslims from completing their journey. This meeting then led to the signing of the treaty of Hudaibiya.

Several problems arise from this whole incident. First, at the signing of the Hudaibiya treaty Muhammad agreed with the pagan Meccans to return to them those who had converted to Islam. At the same time Muhammad also bowed to their demands of replacing his signature of 'Muhammad, Messenger of God' with 'Muhammad, son of Abdullah' so that he might be allowed to make pilgrimage to Mecca the following year. The following is taken from Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891:

"When Suhail bin Amr came, the Prophet said, ‘Now the matter has become easy.' Suhail said to the Prophet 'Please conclude a peace treaty with us.' So, the Prophet called the clerk and said to him, 'Write: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful." Suhail said, 'As for "Beneficent," by Allah, I do not know what it means. So write: By Your Name O Allah, as you used to write previously.' The Muslims said, 'By Allah, we will not write except: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.'The Prophet said, 'Write: By Your Name O Allah.' Then he dictated, 'This is the peace treaty which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle has concluded.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, if we knew that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you from visiting the Kaba, and would not fight with you. So, write: 'Muhammad bin Abdullah.' The Prophet said, 'By Allah! I am Apostle of Allah even if you people do not believe me. Write: Muhammad bin Abdullah.' (Az-Zuhri said, 'The Prophet accepted all those things, as he had already said that he would accept everything they would demand if it respects the ordinance of Allah, (i.e. by letting him and his companions perform 'Umra.)') The Prophet said to Suhail, 'On the condition that you allow us to visit the House (i.e. Ka'ba) so that we may perform Tawaf around it.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, we will not (allow you this year) so as not to give chance to the Arabs to say that we have yielded to you, but we will allow you next year.' SO, THE PROPHET GOT THAT WRITTEN.
"Then Suhail said, 'We also stipulate that you should return to us whoever comes to you from us, even if he embraced your religion.' The Muslims said, 'Glorified be Allah! How will such a person be returned to the pagans after he has become a Muslim?'" (bold emphasis ours)

One of those forced to return to Mecca with the pagans was Abu Jandal. In Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad, trans. Alfred Guillaume, Oxford University Press), p. 505 we are told:

'When Suhayl (the Meccan representative and the treaty's compiler) saw Abu Jandal he got up and hit him in the face and took hold of his collar, saying, 'Muhammad, the agreement between us was concluded before this man came to you.' He replied, 'you are right.' He began to pull him roughly by his collar and to drag him away to return him to Quraysh, while Abu Jandal shrieked at the top of his voice, 'Am I to be returned to the polytheists that they may entice me from my religion O Muslims?' and that increased the people's dejection'" (bold and italic emphasis ours)

And:

'While they were in this state Abu- Jandal bin Suhail bin 'Amr came from the valley of Mecca staggering with his fetters and fell down amongst the Muslims. Suhail said, 'O Muhammad! This is the very first term with which we make peace with you, i.e. you shall return Abu Jandal to me.' The Prophet said, 'The peace treaty has not been written yet.' Suhail said, 'I will never allow you to keep him.' The Prophet said, 'Yes, do.' He said, 'I won't do: Mikraz said, 'We allow you (to keep him).' Abu Jandal said, 'O Muslims! Will I be returned to the pagans though I have come as a Muslim? Don't you see how much I have suffered?'
Abu Jandal had been [previously] tortured severely for the cause of Allah' (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891)

We need to ask did Moses ever return a convert (especially one who was an Egyptian) back to the pagan Pharaoh in order to please the latter in obtaining what he wanted? Did Jesus ever compromise the truth of God by agreeing with the Pharisees in turning back all gentile seekers in order to be accepted by the Jewish ruling council? Would either Moses or Jesus go so far as to deny their apostleship in order to please the demands of pagans? Would these men refuse to glorify the true God in the manner commanded by the Creator and acquiesce to the request of addressing God in a manner pleasing to the unbelievers, much like Muhammad did?
"

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

As one would expect the Muslims were enraged, especially Umar b. al-Khattab who rebuked Muhammad:

'Umar bin al-Khattab said, 'I went to the Prophet and said, "Aren't you truly the messenger of Allah?" The Prophet said, "Yes, indeed." I said, "Isn't our cause just and the cause of the enemy unjust?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Then why should we be humble in our religion?" He said, "I am Allah's messenger and I do not disobey Him, and He will make me victorious"' (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891)

The anger of the Muslims is justifiable when we realize that Muhammad promised that his followers would have access to Mecca that very same year. When that did not occur, Muhammad attempted to justify his statement by stating, "Yes, did I tell you that we would go to Ka'ba this year?" (Ibid)

In other words, since he did not specify when they would enter Mecca this cannot be considered a false prophecy! This is simply erroneous since the Muslim contingent was on their way to Mecca when a deputation from the pagan Arabs stopped them. In fact, one of Muhammad's demands in signing the treaty was that the pagans permit the Muslims to complete their journey to Mecca in order to perform Tawaf. Suhail denied Muhammad's request and instead made an agreement that the Muslims could enter Mecca the following year. Ibn Kathir further supports this in his commentary on S. 48:27:

"In a dream, the Messenger of Allah saw himself entering Makkah and performing Tawaf around the House. He told his Companions about this dream when he was still in Al-Madinah. When they went to Makkah in the year of Al-Hudaybiyyah, none of them doubted that the Prophet's vision WOULD COME TRUE THAT YEAR. When the treaty of peace was conducted and they had to return to Al-Madinah that year, being allowed to return to Makkah the next year, SOME OF THE COMPANIONS DISLIKED WHAT HAPPENED. 'Umar bin Al-Khattab asked about THIS, saying, 'Haven't you told us that we will go to the House and perform Tawaf around it?'" (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 9, Surat Al-Jathiyah to the end of Surat Al-Munafiqun, Abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, London, Lahore; first edition, September 2000], p. 171; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Al-Tabari writes:

"While the Messenger of God was writing the document - he and Suhaly b. 'Amr - suddenly Abu Jandal, the son of Suhaly b. 'Amr, came walking with short steps in shackles. He had escaped to the Messenger of God. The companions of the Messenger of God had set out NOT DOUBTING that they would conquer, because of a vision the Messenger of God had seen. Therefore, when they saw what they saw - the peace, the retreat, and the obligations the Messenger of God had taken upon himself - the people felt so grieved about it that they were close to despair. When Suhayl saw Abu Jandal, he went up to him, struck him on the face, and grabbed him by the front of his garment. "Muhammad," he said, "the pact was ratified between me and you before this fellow came to you." "You are right," he replied. Suhayl began pulling and dragging [his son Abu Jandal] by the front of his garment to return him to Quraysh. Abu Jandal began screaming at the top of his voice, "People of the Muslims, shall I be returned to the polytheists for them to torment me for my religion?" This made the people feel even worse. The Messenger of God said: "Abu Jandal, count on a reward, for God will give you and those who are oppressed with you relief and a way out. We have made a treaty and peace between ourselves and these people; we have given them and they have given us a promise, and we will not act treacherously toward them." (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, Volume VIII, pp. 86-87; bold and capital emphasis ours)

This proves that Muhammad actually believed he was going to enter into Mecca, a plan that never materialized. In order to save face he had to deny admitting that he actually implied that the Muslims would enter Mecca that same year.

Second, to make matters worse Muhammad broke the treaty with the Meccans by refusing to return a Muslim convert from the Quraysh. This refusal was in clear violation of things expressly stipulated in the very document that Muhammad had agreed to sign:

"Umm Kulthum Uqba b. Mu'ayt migrated to the apostle during this period. Her two brothers 'Umara and Walid sons of 'Uqba came and asked the apostle to return her to them in accordance with the agreement between him and Quraysh at Hudaybiyya, but he would not. God forbade it." (Sirat Rasulullah, p. 509; italic emphasis ours)

Hence, Muhammad justified the breaking of his oath by claiming that it was God's will to do so. Unfortunately for Muslims, this would prove that Muhammad's God is not the God of the Holy Bible since breaking one's oath is strictly forbidden. (Cf. Numbers 30:1-2)

In light of all these considerations we are again compelled to ask the following questions. Did Moses ever bow down to Pharaoh's requests in order to bring Israel out of bondage from Egypt? Did Jesus ever deny his Messiahship to gain access to the Temple? Did any true prophet of God ever compromise with the unbelievers in order to fulfill the will of God? Did these men proceed to break their oaths and promises in order to gain an unfair advantage over the unbelievers?

One final problem with all this is that Muslims claim that every single word in the Quran was revealed directly by God to Muhammad through Gabriel. Based on this assumption Muslims further reason that one will not find Muhammad's words intermingled with the words of God. This being the case, how do Muslims explain the fact that S. 48:27 has Allah saying insha' Allah, i.e. "If Allah wills"? Does God not know what his will is? If so, is he uncertain whether his purpose shall come to pass necessitating him to then qualify his statement with the phrase, insha' Allah?

One can understand how fallible humans who are unaware of God's purpose can qualify their statements with the expression "If God wills" (Cf. James 4:13-15). But for God to make such a qualification is beyond reasoning.

Furthermore, if God is in fact speaking then whom is he referring to when he says "If Allah wills"? Is he addressing himself or someone else? If he is addressing someone else, than how many Gods are there? Or perhaps Allah is also a multi-personal Being seeing that there is more than one Person that make up the unity of Allah?

This leads us to conclude that Muhammad's prediction not only failed to materialize, but that his motives in concocting revelation were power, money and fame. This verse also proves that God cannot be the author of the Quran.
"

TheLearner · Apr 21, 2019

On the Appearance of the Antichrist and the End of the World

Muhammad allegedly claimed that the Antichrist (called the Dajjal) was to appear shortly after the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. The following traditions are taken from the Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 37, Number 4281:

Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).

Book 37, Number 4282:

Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The greatest war, the conquest of Constantinople and the coming forth of the Dajjal (Antichrist) will take place within a period of seven months.

Book 37, Number 4283:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Busr:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The time between the great war and the conquest of the city (Constantinople) will be six years, and the Dajjal (Antichrist) will come forth in the seventh.

Accordingly, Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 636 AD. Constantinople was taken over by Muslims in May 1453 AD. Yet the prophecy regarding Yathrib (Medina) being in ruins and Antichrist's advent to take place seven months after the conquest of Constantinople did not materialize. Based on the preceding traditions Antichrist was to appear in November 1453.

Some may wish to argue that these events refer to future conquests. For instance some may wish to say that Constantinople is used as a synonym for the Roman Christian Empire. This would therefore be predicting that Muslims are to takeover Rome before Antichrist appears.

The problem with this is that if Muhammad was speaking of Rome he could have simply used the word Romans (Arabic: Ar-Rum). In fact, Romans/Ar-Rum is the name given to chapter 30 of the Quran. To call Rome either Constantinople or even Byzantium would be rather anachronistic. See above.

Hence, in light of the preceding factors we are forced to conclude that Muhammad's predictions failed to materialize, thus disqualifying him regarding his claim to prophethood.

Muhammad also believed in a young earth and that the world was about to end shortly after his advent. The following citations are taken from The History of al-Tabari, Volume 1 - General Introduction and from the Creation to the Flood (trans. Franz Rosenthal, State University of New York Press, Albany 1989), with all bold emphasis being ours:

"According to Ibn Humayd- Yahya b. Wadih- Yahya b. Ya'qub- Hammad- Sa'id b. Jubayr- Ibn Abbas: This world is one of the weeks of the other world - seven thousand years. Six thousand two hundred years have already passed. (The world) will surely experience hundreds of years, during which there will be no believer in the oneness of God there. Others said that the total extent of time is six thousand years." (Tabari, pp. 172-173; emphasis ours)
"According to Abu Hisham- Mu'awiyah b. Hisham- Sufyan- al-A'mash- Abu Salih- Ka'b: This world is six thousand years." (Ibid.)
"According to Muhammad b. Sahl b. 'Askar- Isma'il b. 'Abd al-Karim- 'Abd al-Samad b. Ma'qil I- Wahb: Five thousand six hundred years of this world have elapsed. I do not know which kings and prophets lived in every period (zaman) of those years. I aksed Wahb b. Munabbih: How long is (the total duration of) this world? He replied: Six thousand years." (Tabari, pp. 173-174; emphasis ours)

Been watching a lot about the quran.. Misled?

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