Discussing Noah's Flood - Mysteries & Theories

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K

KnowMe

Guest
#61
Let's see IF there's any Speculation as stated by our friend here....

Gen 8:1And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

Asswaged is the Hebrew word Shakak (H7918) and it can also mean to set a Trap. Here it is used in this manner:

Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as He that setteth H7918 snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
Gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

This is important since the narrative is between the time when the Ark was above the highest mountains on Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the flood began Gen 7:24 AND when the Ark was upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th Day after the flood began. Gen 8:4 God set a Trap for today's Evols and Unbelievers with the flood.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. v24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

See, No speculation here! And there's No need for Traditional Goatherder's Doctrinal Teachings who can NOT support their views with Scripture. JMHO.

Our God is an Awesome God.
I have not found any Hebrew mentioning of the word (asswaged) as meaning to set a trap also

where did you get that from? none of the verses you posted afterwards uses the word.

who’s setting the trap, , set yes but a trap your adding.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#62
It’s used as eased just like in this verse below.

Job 16:5-6
5 “But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief. 6 Though I speak, my grief is not asswaged: and though I forbear, what am I eased?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#64
Genesis 1:21 tells us that EVERY living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This includes the sons of God or prehistoric mankinds - who's origin is also from the waters.

Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust of the ground. Some Unbelievers see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that the Scripture is mistranslated.

They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally brought forth EVERY Living Creature that moved, from the water, on Day 5.

The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust on the 6th Day, is when YHWH, the Spn of God, squeezed, as a potter would mold a clay, and formed living creatures (His Kinds) from the dust of the ground .

The creatures made from the dust were identical to those brought forth from the waters and could produce offspring together.

The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made/formed on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground. Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.

Like the animals made from the dust, humans also married and produced children with Beings brought forth from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet (Gen 6). Incest was never part of the multiplication process of Humankind, as far as the God’ righteousness is concerned.

After the union between the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and daughters of men (humans) Gen 6, we acquired the DNA of the prehistoric beings and we also have the Human intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human.

We are all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.

God brought forth every living creature that moveth from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced "His /Their Kinds" from the dust of the ground, at the beginning of the 6th Day and brought them to Adam for him name them.

We are all confined to our own kind (flesh) in order to multiply to produce offspring. Unfortunately, Some Religionists and Evolutionism remain ignorant of God’ Truth.
When you say that sons of God is prehistoric mankind, it makes your entire reasoning suspect. Scripture does not say this is so. In Job it speaks of sons of God saying the angels who visited Job along with Satan. In that case it was calling angels sons of God. Next, in Genesis it speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry. That can be true and at the same time it was told in Enoch that 200 of the fallen angels (demons) of the order that can take on human form did marry. They did not marry each other as scripture tells us they do not, but married humans.

I don't see how any other interpretation is possible, even though these angels married humans. What is overlooked is that we are told one order of angels can take on human form. That is mentioned in Hebrews, saying we must be hospitable because it may be angels we are serving. There are instances in the OT telling of angels in human form.

In approved scripture there is very little about the sons of God marrying humans and producing evil beings, but the book of Enoch explains it well. That book was accepted as scripture until the Catholic Church decided it was too Jewish. It explains what our scripture leaves out.

speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
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#65
When you say that sons of God is prehistoric mankind, it makes your entire reasoning suspect. Scripture does not say this is so. In Job it speaks of sons of God saying the angels who visited Job along with Satan. In that case it was calling angels sons of God. Next, in Genesis it speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry. That can be true and at the same time it was told in Enoch that 200 of the fallen angels (demons) of the order that can take on human form did marry. They did not marry each other as scripture tells us they do not, but married humans.
Dear Blik,

The reasons Prehistoric Creatures or Mankind are called “sons of God“ is because, in the eyes of the God, they were innocent creatures / beings (who do not have the knowledge of “good and evil”) …. who also received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23). - the same blessing also given also to A&E on the 6th Day when they were created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27 and 5:1-3 Read and learn:

Gen 1:22-23 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. v23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Now, for continuing discussion, show us where you see angles are being described as “son of God” in ref. to your cited Book of Job?.

I don't see how any other interpretation is possible, even though these angels married humans. What is overlooked is that we are told one order of angels can take on human form. That is mentioned in Hebrews, saying we must be hospitable because it may be angels we are serving. There are instances in the OT telling of angels in human form.
Well, it is because, you continue to use other books other than Scripture - switching back and forth - perhaps, because you don't not understand. I will suggest to pray for more wisdom and understanding.

In approved scripture there is very little about the sons of God marrying humans and producing evil beings, but the book of Enoch explains it well. That book was accepted as scripture until the Catholic Church decided it too Jewish. It explains what our scripture leaves out.

speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry.
Again, the problem is because you don't fully understand the Scripture! and your understanding is convoluted between what you want to believe... based on Ancient Goat Herders Theology... and what our accepted Scripture is actually saying. Sorry.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
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#66
In fact Blik, the continuing context of the SAME cited verses below should be suffice enough to REFUTE the ERRORS and WILD IMAGINATIONS of traditional of men' Goatherder’s Theology.

Read and learn:

[Gen 6:1-3 KJV] 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,. v2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with Man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Obviously, the Lord was totally disgusted to see the daughters of men forming a union of marriage with the prehistoric beings or sons of God. Gen 6:3 since the Lord knows that those combinations would produce men of brutish beast - mighty men of old. Therefore, the Lord cuts mankind's lifespan to a 90% or 120 years duration only. The more older the Heathens get, the more meaner they get.

FYI, Prehistoric Creatures or Mankind are Made of FLESH-- however, Angels are Eternal spiritual beings and NOT made of Flesh.... as document in the Scripture above - Gen 6:3

Btw, also, Angels do NOT Die since they are made eternal spiritual beings and NOT flesh in order to cut their lifespan to 90% or up 120 years old lifespan duration only - as stated in the cited text above Gen 6:3.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#67
It is my Biblical Opinion that.... In order to understand the Flood, one must understand the following:

The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our earth, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water - below and above it - into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 .... Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like the present Earth, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water. Isa 24:19

This Earth, the Earth of Adam, was FLAT. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 .... while our earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while our present World has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

Here are some model images of Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Flat Earth - simili- for reference only - Adam's firmament of heaven - surrounded by waters below and above it - see link..... https://www.pinterest.ph/pin/113715959316206919/

During the Great Flood, Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft above Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20. On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

That's one of the mysteries. HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?
This is what happens when we limit God to our understanding. Placing a foolish theroy to break down the mighty hand of the Lord to make it believable. All over the world evidence is found of a great world wide flood. The scares of the retreating water alone are undeniable.
God's word is proven. 21 ft of water could never do the damage caused by the flood. Plus you would need more than that for the ark to stay afloat.
It is said if Satan can make the book of Genesis seem like a fairytale then he has successfully succeeded in presenting God the same.
God has left the remains of his first judgement in plain view as a reminder that a second is to follow.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
#68
This is what happens when we limit God to our understanding. Placing a foolish theroy to break down the mighty hand of the Lord to make it believable. All over the world evidence is found of a great world wide flood. The scares of the retreating water alone are undeniable.
God's word is proven. 21 ft of water could never do the damage caused by the flood. Plus you would need more than that for the ark to stay afloat.
It is said if Satan can make the book of Genesis seem like a fairytale then he has successfully succeeded in presenting God the same.
God has left the remains of his first judgement in plain view as a reminder that a second is to follow.
Dear pottersclay,

Instead of harping ))))))))))))))))))) from the outside and whine about my post, WHY don't you show us your Ancient Traditional Goatherder's Theology or understanding of the Scripture - perhaps, contrary to what I have posted or claimed. By it, you'll gain more credibility.

You have a minute, I promise I won't laugh and will behave myself. Thanks
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
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#69
]Dear Blik,

The reasons Prehistoric Creatures or Mankind are called “sons of God“ is because, in the eyes of the God, they were innocent creatures / beings (who do not have the knowledge of “good and evil”) …. who also received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23). - the same blessing also given also to A&E on the 6th Day when they were created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27 and 5:1-3 Read and learn:

Gen 1:22-23 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. v23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

If you will just read and believe scripture you will find that it does NOT tell us that when
God used the term "sons of God" in Genisus and in Job God was NOT refering to prehistoris man. We are told not to read into scripture but to accept what God tells us.


Now, for continuing discussion, show us where you see angles are being described as “son of God” in ref. to your cited Book of Job?.

Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7.

Well, it is because, you continue to use other books other than Scripture - switching back and forth - perhaps, because you don't not understand. I will suggest to pray for more wisdom and understanding.

If you refuse to accept any history, or anything that tells us of times other than todays newspapers, that is up to you. Don't whine to me about it. There are ways of checking authenticity of historical documents, it is up to us to use them.

Again, the problem is because you don't fully understand the Scripture! and your understanding is convoluted between what you want to believe... based on Ancient Goat Herders Theology... and what our accepted Scripture is actually saying. Sorry.] Well, if we are using this site to point and wag fingers at people, I think you better go wash your face before you wag them at me.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#70
Dear Blik,

The reasons Prehistoric Creatures or Mankind are called “sons of God“ is because, in the eyes of the God, they were innocent creatures / beings (who do not have the knowledge of “good and evil”) …. who also received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23). - the same blessing also given also to A&E on the 6th Day when they were created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27 and 5:1-3 Read and learn:

Gen 1:22-23 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. v23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Now, for continuing discussion, show us where you see angles are being described as “son of God” in ref. to your cited Book of Job?.



Well, it is because, you continue to use other books other than Scripture - switching back and forth - perhaps, because you don't not understand. I will suggest to pray for more wisdom and understanding.



Again, the problem is because you don't fully understand the Scripture! and your understanding is convoluted between what you want to believe... based on Ancient Goat Herders Theology... and what our accepted Scripture is actually saying. Sorry.
This just gets weirder by the day.
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
#71
2Pillars said:
Dear Blik........

Now, for continuing discussion, show us where you see angles are being described as “son of God” in ref. to your cited Book of Job?.
Blik said:
Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7.
Okay, let us both see that actual Scripture that you cited...see below

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, AND all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I don’t see ANYWHERE in the cited Scripture that angels are also referred to as “sons of God”, do you?... Would you like to explain your thought further why you think so? Or perhaps, this is another case of Ancient Goatherders’ Theology teachings - that is based on wild imagination of men. correct?
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
#72
Btw Blik.... On the other hand,unless you believe in Macro-Evolution, there is no reason for you to argue Scripturally about it, since based on the Scripture, Angels are spiritual beings and do NOT have flesh and bone, therefore, would not be able to have sex with Humans - so much so, produce offspring, together. - do you believe in Macro-Evolution?.

As I have posted before:
The continuing context of the verses below should be suffice enough to REFUTE the ERRORS and WILD IMAGINATIONS of traditional of men or the Goatherder’s Theology.

Read and learn:
[Gen 6:1-4 KJV] 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,. v2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
NO angel can be in Heaven IF they are made of Flesh, because flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. 1Co 15:50

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Again, unless one believes in Macro-Evolution.... Angels are spiritual beings and do NOT have flesh and bone, therefore, could NOT have sex with Humans. We are confined to our own kinds (ManKind) to be able reproduce.

In fact, Fallen Angels are kept in chains under the darkness until Judgment. Jude 1:6 . So please explain Scripturally HOW fallen Angels, who do NOT marry nor produce children with Humans, got out of their Chains, came to Earth and produced these Giants?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
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#73
Okay, let us both see that actual Scripture that you cited...see below

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, AND all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I don’t see ANYWHERE in the cited Scripture that angels are also referred to as “sons of God”, do you?... Would you like to explain your thought further why you think so? Or perhaps, this is another case of Ancient Goatherders’ Theology teachings - that is based on wild imagination of men. correct?
Almost every scholar says it is angels who visited Job, you are calling all scholars ones with wild imaginations.

You are all alone with your decision that God speaks of prehistoric man (where did you get this in relation to bible?) was sons of God. You don't even have company with this wild imagination, you are off on a flight of your own.

Do you think it was men from before history that visited Job?
 

Homewardbound

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2018
1,078
593
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#74
"Your 'biblical opinion'"? What is that? It's either your opinion, or it's what the Bible plainly states.


The Bible does not state that the world of Adam was an enclosed biosphere much smaller than our own. It does say that God planted a garden in the East, in Eden, and placed the man in it.

Some rocks such as limestone DO dissolve in water. Scripture doesn't state that the Earth was "clean dissolved" in the flood; Isaiah is prophesying a future event, not retelling the flood story.


That simply isn't what Scripture states. It says that the waters prevailed 15 cubits above the highest hills. 15 cubits, by a standard medieval cubit, is 22.5 feet.


Scripture doesn't state that there were "only" four rivers. Rather, it identifies four rivers that were formed by the river flowing out of Eden.


Genesis 7:20 does not say anything about 150 days. Genesis 7:24 says that the waters prevailed upon the earth for 150 days. Genesis 8:4 says that in the seventh month, the ark came to rest in the mountains of Ararat.


It wasn't. Through careless reading you have come to erroneous conclusions.
WELL DONE! Well said. Patient and reasoned response...well done!
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#75
The angels mating thing is interesting, Jude which was written much later than anything in the OT. So the author and what he said about angels not keeping their proper domain left their own abode thus now are in chains for what they had done with humans. surely scripture doesn’t say the domain or abode is heaven but could very well mean the place after the casting out of heaven.

Jude 6
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
 

2Pillars

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2016
112
14
18
#76
Almost every scholar says it is angels who visited Job, you are calling all scholars ones with wild imaginations.

You are all alone with your decision that God speaks of prehistoric man (where did you get this in relation to bible?) was sons of God. You don't even have company with this wild imagination, you are off on a flight of your own.

Do you think it was men from before history that visited Job?
Dear Blik,

It does not matter whether I am alone or NOT with my understanding of the Scripture. I have supported my posts with Scriptural analysis, Science findings, historical facts and most importantly, I provided this thread Scriptural Proof texts to support my views and Biblical Stand of the matter.

You on the other hand, could not explain the position you took when you TRY to refute my posts and failed miserably.... You were also asked IF you have ANY support to validate your views... BUT, you seem to FAIL also on this matter and could not show us any proof of anything but another BLUFF!...

Well, in that case, you are free to believe what you want... BUT... next time, please do NOT use my posts to promote Goatherder's Theology...based on wild imagination of men... .

Bye... and wish you more understanding...
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#77
When you say that sons of God is prehistoric mankind, it makes your entire reasoning suspect. Scripture does not say this is so. In Job it speaks of sons of God saying the angels who visited Job along with Satan. In that case it was calling angels sons of God. Next, in Genesis it speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry. That can be true and at the same time it was told in Enoch that 200 of the fallen angels (demons) of the order that can take on human form did marry. They did not marry each other as scripture tells us they do not, but married humans.

I don't see how any other interpretation is possible, even though these angels married humans. What is overlooked is that we are told one order of angels can take on human form. That is mentioned in Hebrews, saying we must be hospitable because it may be angels we are serving. There are instances in the OT telling of angels in human form.

In approved scripture there is very little about the sons of God marrying humans and producing evil beings, but the book of Enoch explains it well. That book was accepted as scripture until the Catholic Church decided it was too Jewish. It explains what our scripture leaves out.

speaks of sons of God, and most people do not believe they were angels because angels do not marry.
Just a observation of scripture but it appears that demons do have the ability to transform things, it’s possible to transform into a human yet it be of counterfeit miracle, a deception, a enchantment.

Exodus 7:11
But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

Rev 16:14
For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Yet even the magicians knew the difference, they could not produce lice from sand but lice on human and beast.

Exodus 8 18-19
18 Now the magicians so worked with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not. So there were lice on man and beast.
19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, just as the Lord had said.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
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#78
Dear Blik,

It does not matter whether I am alone or NOT with my understanding of the Scripture. I have supported my posts with Scriptural analysis, Science findings, historical facts and most importantly, I provided this thread Scriptural Proof texts to support my views and Biblical Stand of the matter.

You on the other hand, could not explain the position you took when you TRY to refute my posts and failed miserably.... You were also asked IF you have ANY support to validate your views... BUT, you seem to FAIL also on this matter and could not show us any proof of anything but another BLUFF!...

Well, in that case, you are free to believe what you want... BUT... next time, please do NOT use my posts to promote Goatherder's Theology...based on wild imagination of men... .

Bye... and wish you more understanding...
I an NOT free to believe as I want, nor are you. We are asked to search and report on facts. We give ourselves to Christ and live through Him. To tell something of the Lord that is not the truth is not living through Christ. Therefore, I am very careful to check and recheck everything as I learn God's ways. If you or I are in error it is serious, we need to learn God's ways.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#79
Just a observation of scripture but it appears that demons do have the ability to transform things, it’s possible to transform into a human yet it be of counterfeit miracle, a deception, a enchantment.

Exodus 7:11
But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

Rev 16:14
For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Yet even the magicians knew the difference, they could not produce lice from sand but lice on human and beast.

Exodus 8 18-19
18 Now the magicians so worked with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not. So there were lice on man and beast.
19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.” But Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, just as the Lord had said.
It seems to me that fallen angels who were teraphim or thrones before they fell had to be the only angels who could marry humans. Cherub or Seraphim are not able to take on human form.