A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[VCO]

We know Catholics do not believe in Tongues, and this Catholic writer could be like the Catholic writer who claimed Calvin committed sodomy!!



Then he should not have taught his own Disciples the Gifts continue including tongues since I have quotes by them from 90 A.D. till now!!

230 A.D.
Irenaus student Tertullian "such as have not spoken by human sense, but with the Spirit of God, such as have both predicted things to come, and have made manifest the secrets of the heart." Utterances, inspired "by the Spirit, in an ecstasy, that is in a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred," were "forthcoming" from his side "without any difficulty"

Do you want Tertullian's students and their students and so forth?

They all claim it has not ceased and getting more active every day!!

Utterances, inspired "by the A Spirit, in an ecstasy, IS WHAT PLATO CALLED DIVINE ECSTASY. THEREFORE, I will NEVER believe in tongues that NEVER HAS AN UNBELIEVING JEW HEARING THE MIGHTY WORKS OF GOD IN HIS OWN DIALEKTOS.

 

[jordh24]

I do not think he changes either

But they way he has responded to mankind has changed many times over mans life on earth.

He is the one that spoke against seeking a sign. Not me.. So not sure of your point.

I understand completely God using a gift to share the gospel or something about him to someone who speaks a different language

But to do things using these so calls “signs” when he can do the same exact thing without signs, and in fact, edify the people and the church and the world even more, because they actually SEE God at work.. Well I am sorry, I just can not understand it.

If it was real. it would happen in alot more churches don’t you think?

I mean there are many denominations. And many churches, who all have the same root which is christ, And the Same Holy Spirit who works in them all. Why is it only one select group that God choses to work that way in?

If they SEE God is that not a sign? Just a different kind of sign? People believe that the Word is living, and that it will speak to them, is that not a sign? We have signs all around us.

If a church rejects it how can it work? It cannot work if people flat out reject the idea of these signs and tongues. The Holy Spirit works in all churchs. But I would argue that some other churches have seen visions and mine has not, why is God selecting that one church to give visions to? Different churches needed different methods. God is not a one size fits all, how could he be when the Church is worldwise and spreads over generations?

 

[jordh24]

Yeah I know. That's just the point about whether tongues are still active and necessary.

If tongues are not active, then what did I experience?

 

[jordh24]

I'm sorry young man, but we are NOT to live by our feelings. But I AM glad you have succinctly identified the problem with this issue.

But it begs the question, how do you or me or anyone KNOW your feelings are true?

How do you know Christianity is true? It all comes down to faith. I have faith and trust that my Spirit is leading me in the right direction. If I don't have faith then what happens?

 

[jordh24]

Um Again, Language would be the proper interpretation (using todays language)

The word “language” was not used in the early english bibles so they used the word which for that day represented what we today know as languages.

Lets say we go with the interpretation you are quoting for arguments sake. If we look at the verse below:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels... (1 Corinthians 13:1).

We can see that Paul said he speaks with tongues(languages of men and of angels, which backs my idea of tongues as being both earthly language AND heavenly(Spiritual) language. And if you continue in 1 Corinthians 14 you will continue to see how Paul explains how it should be used in the church. It is used in the early church and is still used today.

 

[jordh24]

I have heard many a pastor say God told them to tell their church this (in english I may add)
Is this from God, or is this just some people saying what they think God wants us to hear?

If a pastor says it is from God, we should take his word for it unless God speaks to us telling us otherwise.

 

[jordh24]

The NT church thought worship or edification came from the word. Prayer, Breaking bread (eating together) and fellowship. And they continued in that as a means of growth.

They did not have “church” as many modern day churches have “church” In fact from all accounts, It appears they only met at the begining of the week to receive instruction, and take up an offering.

Most church activities occurred in peoples homes. Or what we today call home churches.

1 Corinthians 14:4 says He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

This verse clearly makes your point invalid, "He who speaks in the tongue EDIFIES himself"

 

[jordh24]

What about before the law was given? What about how the OLD testament people were saved?

Has God really changed?

In the Old Testament people were saved under the old covenant through the sacrifice of pure animals. In the new covenant Jesus was the pure being that was sacrificed.

God has not changed, the method of how someone attains the clearing of their sins has changed between convanents. And the Holy Spirit under the new convanent has made it so that God lives within us.

 

[jordh24]

People kill other people. And claim Gods spirit discerned it in their spirit that this was Gods will

People have left their spouses and gotten a divorce. Saying Gods spirit informed them it was his will to have this other woman

People have done many things, and claimed it was Gods spirit who confirmed with their spirit it was what God wanted.

I would suggest this is not something we should use as proof that God is in what we think he is in. Even satan comes as an angel of light.. Sadly I fear many times, when we think we hear God, it is our flesh, or even satan and his army we are hearing, and Not god..

Just saying bro

But does that mean that we just stick our head in the sand and wait for Jesus to come back? If Jesus comes back and we simply stick our head in the sand he will wonder what we are doing, especially with the parable that was told about the man who hid his coin and did nothing with it. We are called to help others find Jesus, if we do not seek Jesus we will only fall backwards. We need to find out when God is speaking when other forces are speaking to us. Otherwise we will never truly be able to follow God's direction.

 

[jordh24]

Are you saying there are two covenants running side-by-side?

There are two convents, one stopped and another began when Jesus died on the cross

 

[dcontroversal]

Ummmm..... you got me there. Where does it say that God must honor our faith even to the point of changing his mind?

If we believe not, he abides faithful because he cannot deny himself. <-----this speaks multitudes

 

[PennEd]

How do you know Christianity is true? It all comes down to faith. I have faith and trust that my Spirit is leading me in the right direction. If I don't have faith then what happens?

I am a Christian because I heard THE Gospel unto Salvation from the Word, and believed, and became born again. A NEW creation, with a NEW heart from the Lord. Sealed with the Holy Spirit given as a down payment for the promise of eternal Life with Jesus.

What is YOUR faith in?

 

[dcontroversal]

I am a Christian because I heard THE Gospel unto Salvation from the Word, and believed, and became born again. A NEW creation, with a NEW heart from the Lord. Sealed with the Holy Spirit given as a down payment for the promise of eternal Life with Jesus.

What is YOUR faith in?

Jesus.......that is where my faith resides..........

 

[jordh24]

I am a Christian because I heard THE Gospel unto Salvation from the Word, and believed, and became born again. A NEW creation, with a NEW heart from the Lord. Sealed with the Holy Spirit given as a down payment for the promise of eternal Life with Jesus.

What is YOUR faith in?

My faith is in Jesus. But that is besides the point that is being argued. The point being argued is that we need to have faith in what God is telling us through the Spirit. If we do not listen to what the Spirit is telling us, which you and others seem to think we should do, not listen to what our Spirit is saying but rather ignore it altogether. Then we have missed a large point of our Christian walk. We are to walk in the direction that God directs us through the Spirit. Which we cannot do if we try to restrain the leading of the Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

My faith is in Jesus. But that is besides the point that is being argued. The point being argued is that we need to have faith in what God is telling us through the Spirit. If we do not listen to what the Spirit is telling us, which you and others seem to think we should do, not listen to what our Spirit is saying but rather ignore it altogether. Then we have missed a large point of our Christian walk. We are to walk in the direction that God directs us through the Spirit. Which we cannot do if we try to restrain the leading of the Spirit.

Everything we need to know is in the scripture.

 

[VCO]

I cap things out of habit

They do not understand OLD SCHOOL, LOL. It used to mean nothing but emphasis. NOW Face Book and Twitter want to call it YELLING, and I REFUSE to bow to the Twitter and Face Book false gods. My Capitalizations are JUST FOR EMPHASIS.

 

[PennEd]

My faith is in Jesus. But that is besides the point that is being argued. The point being argued is that we need to have faith in what God is telling us through the Spirit. If we do not listen to what the Spirit is telling us, which you and others seem to think we should do, not listen to what our Spirit is saying but rather ignore it altogether. Then we have missed a large point of our Christian walk. We are to walk in the direction that God directs us through the Spirit. Which we cannot do if we try to restrain the leading of the Spirit.

MANY think they are following the Holy Spirit's direction. But we are told to test the spirits because not all are of God. EVERYTHING the Holy Spirit does glorifies Jesus Christ, and points people to Him. That is His role. He will sanctify us into the likeness of Christ. ANY word, or prophecy that ANYONE receives, that is contrary to the Word in ANY way, is of a different spirit. Do you think THESE people think they have a different spirit than the Holy Spirit?

 

[jordh24]

MANY think they are following the Holy Spirit's direction. But we are told to test the spirits because not all are of God. EVERYTHING the Holy Spirit does glorifies Jesus Christ, and points people to Him. That is His role. He will sanctify us into the likeness of Christ. ANY word, or prophecy that ANYONE receives, that is contrary to the Word in ANY way, is of a different spirit. Do you think THESE people think they have a different spirit than the Holy Spirit?

Are you trying to prove that tongues are demonic? Are you trying to prove that they are bad? What exactly are you arguing for because I don't know what you are trying to argue here?

 

[jordh24]

Everything we need to know is in the scripture.

We need more than the scripture for direction, my friend. If you read the scripture you would see this.

John 14:26 says "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

The HOLY SPIRIT will do these thing, not the scripture. The scripture is VERY important but it CANNOT replace God's voice through the Holy Spirit.

 

[crossnote]

John 14:26 says "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

The HOLY SPIRIT will do these thing, not the scripture. The scripture is VERY important but it CANNOT replace God's voice through the Holy Spirit.

That promise is to the Apostles and it was fulfilled in their giving us the Scriptures an account of the meaning of Jesus' life, death and resurrection.

Besides you are using Scripture to argue against Scripture...not smart.