Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

[Melach]

i disagree that 'supporting jews' is supporting the kingdom of God. the kingdom of God has nothing to do with nationalities or ethnicities.

and my clarification to what you asked: i meant that because of what happened then, they have been mistreated in all places. God returns to the next generation to all those who hate Him. and all who reject the Son, hate the Father also.

i agree that they will be brought back to repentance in the future.

could you address what i said here:

i guess the truth im getting at is: if you study on how to become a citizen of israel, it has nothing to do with being a descendant of abraham. it has all to do with religion. you can convert to orthodox judaism today and get your citizenship tomorrow.

is this not the truth? that anyone can convert to judaism and then move to israel and get citizenship? why this matters is: anyone who isnt even a flesh descendant of abraham can convert to judaism and move to the land. do you understand where im coming from? can we see on that eye to eye even if we disagree?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance. Without Christianity, we should not have had Islam. The Roman Empire, under Germanic influence, would have developed in the direction of world-domination, and humanity would not have extinguished fifteen centuries of civilisation at a single stroke. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. The result of the collapse of the Roman Empire was a night that lasted for centuries.

Adolph Hitler.

 

[kaylagrl]

i disagree that 'supporting jews' is supporting the kingdom of God. the kingdom of God has nothing to do with nationalities or ethnicities.

We'll agree to disagree on that one then.

and my clarification to what you asked: i meant that because of what happened then, they have been mistreated in all places. God returns to the next generation to all those who hate Him. and all who reject the Son, hate the Father also.


Jews don't hate God, they have been blinded for a time. They do not believe Jesus is the Messiah but they will come to realize he is. Romans 11 makes it clear that God is not done with the Jews and He still loves them,they are still the apple of His eye.

i agree that they will be brought back to repentance in the future.

We do agree on that score.


could you address what i said here:



is this not the truth? that anyone can convert to judaism and then move to israel and get citizenship? why this matters is: anyone who isnt even a flesh descendant of abraham can convert to judaism and move to the land. do you understand where im coming from? can we see on that eye to eye even if we disagree?

Not quite sure what you mean here. One can practice the religion of Judaism but that doesn't make them a Jew. I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.

 

[Melach]

@kaylagrl

thanks for your respecting tone. i will try to reword what im saying, since we are in agreement that one can practice the religion of judaism but that does not make them a Jew:

if i convert to judaism today, i can get israeli citizenship. yet im not a real jew.

would you support me being in the land of israel?

the reason i ask is because many rabbis admit they are sons of converts and not ethnically descendant of abraham, but just practicing the religion.

i also want to clarify what i meant by the hate God phrase, i was referring to the spirit of antichrist in john's epistles, that anyone who does not believe Jesus is the son of God is in that spirit, and that means everyone in the world except christians.

i agree God still loves the jews and will bring them back to the fold again in the latter days. i believe that according to scripture the all israel that shall be saved is the third that survives that is mentioned in the book of zechariah. do we agree on that? i guess where i difference with many is that i believe that all israel joins the church, instead of being a different entity. im still learning on that subject prophecy subject is new to me. so my view might change tomorrow lolz.

 

[kaylagrl]

@kaylagrl

thanks for your respecting tone. i will try to reword what im saying, since we are in agreement that one can practice the religion of judaism but that does not make them a Jew:

if i convert to judaism today, i can get israeli citizenship. yet im not a real jew.

would you support me being in the land of israel?

the reason i ask is because many rabbis admit they are sons of converts and not ethnically descendant of abraham, but just practicing the religion.

Ah!! I understand now what you are saying. I would still think there are many actual Jews in Israel. And I still believe God has His hand on the Jewish people.


i also want to clarify what i meant by the hate God phrase, i was referring to the spirit of antichrist in john's epistles, that anyone who does not believe Jesus is the son of God is in that spirit, and that means everyone in the world except christians.

Ok I understand where you are coming from but again I do believe that even though they are in disobedience now God still loves the Jews and isn't done with them yet.



i agree God still loves the jews and will bring them back to the fold again in the latter days. i believe that according to scripture the all israel that shall be saved is the third that survives that is mentioned in the book of zechariah. do we agree on that? i guess where i difference with many is that i believe that all israel joins the church, instead of being a different entity. im still learning on that subject prophecy subject is new to me. so my view might change tomorrow lolz.

Yes, think we do agree and I am still learning and I was brought up in church. I don't think we ever stop learning when it comes to God.

 

[Melach]

@kaylagrl what a blessing to my heart to find a compassionate friendly soul.

i would like to comment on what i believe caused some church fathers and luther to be so anti-semitic.

for the early church it probably stems from jews persecuting the church early on, so the oral tradition continued on and on all the way up to luther.

but i also believe that there are were some church fathers that wasnt so anti-semitic, i notice the worst ones tend to be after the roman catholic church came to exist.

guys like ignatius who are very early on, polycarp and him were hearers of john if i remember right, they werent anti-semitic. as time went on, things got worse and the hatred grew. they forgot that they are still beloved for the fathers' sake as the bible teaches.

thats my view, what luther and they said is undefendable but im just trying to look into the minds of men who are no longer with us. they said bad things, but they also did some good things like luther translated bible in germany

 

[Locoponydirtman]

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through I saac your descendants will be named .” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
ROMANS 9:6‭-‬8 NASB
So it's safe to say that it isn't about being a Jew by heritage, but that's not the subject here.
It seems that there are those who would blame Christians for reason that Jews do not convert to Christianity, to which I say that they can not hardly blame those who didn't even exist for their failure to see Christ when he presented himself to them. And then I guess it begs the question of why they break the law, they neither keep the the law commanded until Christ fulfilled it nor the grace given by Christ. Why is that? The command to sacrifice was never lifted unless Christ is the sacrifice, but they neither sacrifice nor recognize Christ.

 

[kaylagrl]

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through I saac your descendants will be named .” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
ROMANS 9:6‭-‬8 NASB
So it's safe to say that it isn't about being a Jew by heritage, but that's not the subject here.
It seems that there are those who would blame Christians for reason that Jews do not convert to Christianity, to which I say that they can not hardly blame those who didn't even exist for their failure to see Christ when he presented himself to them. And then I guess it begs the question of why they break the law, they neither keep the the law commanded until Christ fulfilled it nor the grace given by Christ. Why is that? The command to sacrifice was never lifted unless Christ is the sacrifice, but they neither sacrifice nor recognize Christ.

The Bible tells us they will be blinded for a time, then when the anti-Christ turns on them, they will see the truth and grieve for not recognizing their Messiah. I'm not blaming Christians per say, I'm blaming Replacement Theology and the Christians who believe it. The church fathers that I quoted hated the Jewish people and they were wrong. They had an influence on Christianity and what led to the Holocaust.

 

[Grandpa]

So one justifies the other? What did Jesus say from the cross? Get those Jews? No. Our attitude should be the same. The Jews have been blamed as Christ killers down through the ages and have been persecuted and murdered for it.

I don't think you get it.

How come you don't defend the Nazis too? They have been persecuted and murdered too, for what they did in the past.

Just like the Jews. Maybe even more so. Not a whole lot of sympathy out there for Nazism.

The problem is that you don't worship Nazis. So you don't see everything they do as forgivable. But since you pretty much do worship Jews then everything they do is forgivable. Even persecuting and killing the first Christians.

I'm not real sure how you excuse that. Just like the Jews aren't likely to forgive and forget the Nazis, which you don't expect them to do, Christians aren't likely to forgive and forget the Jews killing them. And then forever after the Jews will hate Christians. And you don't blame them....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think you get it.

How come you don't defend the Nazis too? They have been persecuted and murdered too, for what they did in the past.

Just like the Jews. Maybe even more so. Not a whole lot of sympathy out there for Nazism.

The problem is that you don't worship Nazis. So you don't see everything they do as forgivable. But since you pretty much do worship Jews then everything they do is forgivable. Even persecuting and killing the first Christians.

I'm not real sure how you excuse that. Just like the Jews aren't likely to forgive and forget the Nazis, which you don't expect them to do, Christians aren't likely to forgive and forget the Jews killing them. And then forever after the Jews will hate Christians. And you don't blame them....

You mean Germans or Nazi’s?

 

[Adstar]

Sadly those who oppose the Word of God among the Jews can quite easly give Christians ( and by association Christianity ) a bad wrap to their fellow Jews because there have been so many hate filled false christians down the centuries doing their best to persecute and harm the Jewish people...

True Christians who love even their enemies and are as harmless as doves are a rare breed..

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't think you get it.

What is "it" that I don't get?


How come you don't defend the Nazis too? They have been persecuted and murdered too, for what they did in the past.

No, Nazis were brought to justice for what they did. They weren't persecuted, and it's utter nonsense to claim such a thing. They tortured and murdered Jews and others they saw unfit to live.



Just like the Jews. Maybe even more so. Not a whole lot of sympathy out there for Nazism.

Not just like the Jews. Again, utter nonsense. More so? So Nazis had their property stolen, work places burned down, transported like animals to their tortuous deaths. Funny I missed that in the history books. Are you kidding me right now?!



The problem is that you don't worship Nazis. So you don't see everything they do as forgivable.

NOTHING the Nazis did was forgivable!! End of sentence, period. I can't believe a person would say that.





But since you pretty much do worship Jews....

How do I worship Jews? I'm not a Jew, I am a Pentecostal, pretty long way from Judaism. I've stated the facts of how Jews have been treated down through history. That is worship how?



then everything they do is forgivable. Even persecuting and killing the first Christians.

Please point me to the post where I said what they did was right. I said Christ forgave them and yes, we ought to. The comments of the early church fathers show Jew hatred and it was wrong. And that hatred led to the Holocaust. There is no way to justify that. No where did Jesus say pay back what was done to you. Early Christians being killed doesn't make every Jew culpable or deserving of retribution. I don't know what Bible you're reading but it isn't Gods Word.



I'm not real sure how you excuse that.

I didn't, you put words in my mouth.

Just like the Jews aren't likely to forgive and forget the Nazis, which you don't expect them to do, Christians aren't likely to forgive and forget the Jews killing them.


Again, what Bible are you reading? Read Corrie Ten Booms life story and how one night a guard at the camp she was at attended her service. She had every reason in the world to hate him and yet he came to her and apologized in tears and she forgave him. Hitlers intent was to wipe out the Jewish race, which he nearly did. Are you saying what the Jews suffered in the Holocaust is payback for early Christians being murdered?!




And then forever after the Jews will hate Christians. And you don't blame them....

As I said in an earlier post Jews don't hate Christians. This is a blanket statement. I said Jews are wary of Christians when being witnessed to. It's ridiculous to say all Jews hate Christians. If you have an issue with Jews that's between you and God. Not my problem.

 

[kaylagrl]

You mean Germans or Nazi’s?

He said Nazis, I'm hoping he meant Germans too.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I use to say the same thing until I began looking into history. Then I learned about Replacement Theology and read what some of the church fathers like Martin Luther said. Luther was revered in Germany and what he said about the Jews,( that they were pigs, their synagogues should be burned down, that they were forever cursed and had no God), directly influenced the German people and how they saw Jews and how they let the Holocaust happen on their doorstep.

Replacement theology, what ever... It's all an excuse.
God made it clear in the law that the sacrifices we're to continue until the coming of Messiah. They don't sacrifice nor do they recognize Messiah. They haven't since 70AD when the temple was destroyed for the last time. They never rebuilt any form of the temple and failed to continue to sacrifice. Humanism and sin is the problem not Billy hurt my feelings 100 years ago. The truth of what the reformers said is still true, they shouldn't be teaching their blasphemy, they shouldn't be allowed to come against the doctrine of Christ with their law that they don't keep. What does the new testament writers say about those who wanted to impose the law on Christians?

Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
PHILIPPIANS 3:2‭-‬3 NASB

And remember what is written about heritage and lineage in Romans.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through I saac your descendants will be named .” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
ROMANS 9:6‭-‬8 NASB

So yes I agree that replacement theology is a bad doctrine, because it fails to recognize that being born of Abraham, or Issac does not make you a child of promise and never has, but Rahab, the Canaanite, a woman of a group marked out for destruction was actually a child of promise.
Ruth, a moabite woman, also marked out for destruction, yet she was a child of promise. Along with a host of others including well known names such as
Caleb (Num 32:12), Othniel (Judg 3:9), Shamgar (Judg 3:31), Jael (Judges 4-5).

 

[Grandpa]

You mean Germans or Nazi’s?

Nazi's.

They were against a specific people/religious group and put them to death.

Just like the Jews who put the early Christians to death. They were against a specific people/religious group and put them to death.


But German people don't call you racist if you are against the Nazi ideology. Because that would be silly.

Jewish people and the people who support them call you racist if you are against the jewish ideology. You are automatically anti-semitic if you are against Judaism.

Its ok for the Jewish people to hate certain people groups. But its absolutely intolerable for any other people groups to do the same thing.


That's why I used Nazi's in my example. Something super extreme. Not that I condone anything they did or think. Just as a comparison of their ideology.

 

[kaylagrl]

Replacement theology, what ever...

No, not whatever, it's a false doctrine that is being taught in churches today saying the church has replaced the Jews. It's false.

It's all an excuse.
God made it clear in the law that the sacrifices we're to continue until the coming of Messiah. They don't sacrifice nor do they recognize Messiah. They haven't since 70AD when the temple was destroyed for the last time. They never rebuilt any form of the temple and failed to continue to sacrifice.

We'd agree they are in disobedience at the moment. Blinded for a time as Romans says.




Humanism and sin is the problem not Billy hurt my feelings 100 years ago. The truth of what the reformers said is still true, they shouldn't be teaching their blasphemy, they shouldn't be allowed to come against the doctrine of Christ with their law that they don't keep. What does the new testament writers say about those who wanted to impose the law on Christians?
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
PHILIPPIANS 3:2‭-‬3 NASB


At once point we were all lost and God had mercy on us. He loves the Jewish people still. Not sure you read what I posted about what the reformers said, that was hatred, pure and simple. And it led to the abuse, persecution and murder of 6million Jews.



And remember what is written about heritage and lineage in Romans.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through I saac your descendants will be named .” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
ROMANS 9:6‭-‬8 NASB

So yes I agree that replacement theology is a bad doctrine, because it fails to recognize that being born of Abraham, or Issac does not make you a child of promise and never has, but Rahab, the Canaanite, a woman of a group marked out for destruction was actually a child of promise.
Ruth, a moabite woman, also marked out for destruction, yet she was a child of promise. Along with a host of others including well known names such as
Caleb (Num 32:12), Othniel (Judg 3:9), Shamgar (Judg 3:31), Jael (Judges 4-5).

 

[kaylagrl]

Nazi's.

They were against a specific people/religious group and put them to death.

Just like the Jews who put the early Christians to death. They were against a specific people/religious group and put them to death.

Jews didn't try to wipe Christians off the face of the earth. They didn't murder 6 million Christians. They didn't take everything they owned, put them in death camps and starve and torture them. Don't be daft.


But German people don't call you racist if you are against the Nazi ideology. Because that would be silly.

Because the majority of Germans are smart enough to know the Nazis were sick, evil and twisted and are ashamed of that history. Hitlers "ideology" was to wipe Jews off the map. Permanently.


Jewish people and the people who support them call you racist if you are against the jewish ideology. You are automatically anti-semitic if you are against Judaism.


Not true, they wouldn't allow Christians or Muslims to visit their holy sites in their country. I Jew doesn't care if you don't believe in Judaism, what they do care is about is Jew hatred. Considering what they've been through, I don't blame them.





Its ok for the Jewish people to hate certain people groups. But its absolutely intolerable for any other people groups to do the same thing.


What people groups do Jews hate? Do tell.


That's why I used Nazi's in my example. Something super extreme. Not that I condone anything they did or think. Just as a comparison of their ideology.


Yeah that's why you compared Jews to Nazis, great reasoning there. Because their ideals were so close. Got it.

 

[PennEd]

This is how you know antisemitism, which is anti Jew, which is anti Israel, is satanic.

Jews account for less than 0.2 % of the World's population. At just under 15,000,000 people out of over 7,000,000,000 (Billion) people.

Most of the nations of the world are virulently antisemitic. There are like 5 Jews in Japan, yet you can find antisemitism there for example.
God is, and has, dealt VERY severely with the Jews. He has used unbelieving, wicked gentile nations to mete out His punishment on them. But He will NEVER totally abandon them, and certainly will not use His born again Children as the method of that punishment.

It never works out well for those nations and people that are used by Him. Pray for the Jews. Love them. Preach the Gospel to them. But have NOTHING to do with hating, or chastizing them. Leave that for the unbelievers and the apostate church.

 

[kaylagrl]

This is how you know antisemitism, which is anti Jew, which is anti Israel, is satanic.

Jews account for less than 0.2 % of the World's population. At just under 15,000,000 people out of over 7,000,000,000 (Billion) people.

Most of the nations of the world are virulently antisemitic. There are like 5 Jews in Japan, yet you can find antisemitism there for example.
God is, and has, dealt VERY severely with the Jews. He has used unbelieving, wicked gentile nations to mete out His punishment on them. But He will NEVER totally abandon them, and certainly will not use His born again Children as the method of that punishment.

It never works out well for those nations and people that are used by Him. Pray for the Jews. Love them. Preach the Gospel to them. But have NOTHING to do with hating, or chastizing them. Leave that for the unbelievers and the apostate church.

Brother, if there ever was a perfect post on CC, this is it. Perfectly said and well balanced. No one could say it better.

 

[UnderGrace]

This is how you know antisemitism, which is anti Jew, which is anti Israel, is satanic.

Jews account for less than 0.2 % of the World's population. At just under 15,000,000 people out of over 7,000,000,000 (Billion) people.

Most of the nations of the world are virulently antisemitic. There are like 5 Jews in Japan, yet you can find antisemitism there for example.
God is, and has, dealt VERY severely with the Jews. He has used unbelieving, wicked gentile nations to mete out His punishment on them. But He will NEVER totally abandon them, and certainly will not use His born again Children as the method of that punishment.

It never works out well for those nations and people that are used by Him. Pray for the Jews. Love them. Preach the Gospel to them. But have NOTHING to do with hating, or chastizing them. Leave that for the unbelievers and the apostate church.

And how long does God plan to punish the Jews exactly?