Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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113
The problem I see for most eschatologies is a failure to believe the various time statements in the new testament.
(Acts 2:17 'And in the last days it will be,' God says, 'that I will pour out my Spirit on all people, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.)
(Acts 3:24 And all the prophets, from Samuel and those who followed him, have spoken about and announced these days.)
(Acts 3:25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your ancestors, saying to Abraham, 'And in your descendants all the nations of the earth will be blessed.')
We have in the above Peter stating they are in the "last days", and that all the prophets from Samuel "announced these days "
We have Paul stating that the goals of the ages were upon them:
1 Cor 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come)
end = telos
from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)
John writes in his letter at the end of Peter's "last days" that they were in the "last hour" of the days that were "announced " by all the prophets from Samuel and those that followed him.
(1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour.)

^ My view is that people often do not distinguish the following three (three distinct things):

--1 Corinthians 10:11 "upon whom the ENDS [PLURAL; G5056] of the AGES [PLURAL] are arrived"

--Hebrews 9:26 "once in the END [SINGULAR; G4930] of the AGES [PLURAL] hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself"

--Matthew 13:39,40,49-50 "...the harvest is the END [SINGULAR; G4930] of the AGE [SINGULAR]"..."tares...burned in the fire; so shall it be in the END [SINGULAR; G4930] of the AGE [SINGULAR]"..."So shall it be at the END [SINGULAR; G4930] of the AGE [SINGULAR]: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just. And shall cast them into the furnace OF the fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Sorry EG, this topic is obviously a hot button issue for you, not sure I will continue the dialogue with you, I am never writing personally but my posts are interpreted that way, even though I stay away from personal pronouns.
l
So I am not sure what else I can do.

I also feel insulted that you could infer I do not know my history, when I actually have an undergraduate degree in "International Relations" a five year program, as well as post graduate degrees, and I do not feel comfortable really referencing my background except for the fact that you have made assumptions about what I know and do not know.

I will admit the Old Testament is not my strong suit and I am still putting a lot of this together as I study, but I know my Ancient Roman History well, and Matthew 24 has been completely fulfilled.
lol. When you are on the receiving end, it feels very different than watching from
the sidelines. God bless you.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
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There is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture.

Just because it is actually and specifically stated six times in the book of Revelation.... ummm... is irrelevant.

Please stop believing silly things just because they're stated over and over in scripture.



It makes you sound uneducated.

.


.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
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Also, for everyone, PLEASE DO NOT USE SARCASM.

SARCASM IS UNSPIRITUAL.


I learned this when I was debating a fellow who was losing, so he claimed I'd hurt his feelings.

I immediately apologized.

I also advised him that he'd fare better in debate if he'd put on his big girl panties.



I always feel I've been a blessing after I share good advice.

..
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Also, for everyone, PLEASE DO NOT USE SARCASM.

SARCASM IS UNSPIRITUAL.


I learned this when I was debating a fellow who was losing, so he claimed I'd hurt his feelings.

I immediately apologized.

I also advised him that he'd fare better in debate if he'd put on his big girl panties.



I always feel I've been a blessing after I share good advice.

..
Who is being sarcastic?
I do not see it?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
There is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture.

Just because it is actually and specifically stated six times in the book of Revelation.... ummm... is irrelevant.

Please stop believing silly things just because they're stated over and over in scripture.



It makes you sound uneducated.

.


.
umm and to whom are you addressing this?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
lol, the way I read it, maxwel himself was being sarcastic :D (I could be mistaken though)


About the 1000 years... if Rev was the only reference to such a "time period," I could consider "Amill-teaching" a little more seriously, but it isn't. Rev's references to such a "time period" AGREES with the following:

[quoting my previous posts]

--"... note additionally the TWO "PUNISH" words which are SEPARATED by "and after many days" (meaning, "punish" not only at His Second Coming to the earth BUT ALSO the later GWTj [the TWO "punish" words in Isa24:21-22(23)]) and correlating [time-wise] with that of Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time (context/setting) of His Second Coming to the earth. Meaning, there is still much "time" that will transpire on the earth following His Second Coming to the earth."

--Daniel 7:27's "the greatness of the kingdom... UNDER the whole heaven" (following the very specific time period of v.25)
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
umm and to whom are you addressing this?

I don't remember mentioning any whoms.

Why would you bring up whoms?

I don't even think I'd recognize whoms if they fell on me.



This is a very confusing thread.

.





.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I don't remember mentioning any whoms.

Why would you bring up whoms?

I don't even think I'd recognize whoms if they fell on me.



This is a very confusing thread.

.





.
Tell me about it, I was hoping you could bring some clarity with those stylish lenses?:D
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
There is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture.

Just because it is actually and specifically stated six times in the book of Revelation.... ummm... is irrelevant.

Please stop believing silly things just because they're stated over and over in scripture.



It makes you sound uneducated..
What you said above is really revealing of the truth and not supportive at all of your claim that "there is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture. The fact that "a thousand years" is repeated six times is very relevant and something that you and others should consider of utmost importance.

The deceptions of Satan are obvious when a person can read scripture, in this case "a thousand years," repeated six times and then come away not believing it. Why? Because they read books written by men who are introducing these false teachings, which you and others adopt. So, instead of believing what the word of God says, the teachings of men/Satan is accepted instead. It reminds me of the same deception that took place with Eve, where God said regarding the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Then Satan came along and said "no you won't die." And they've been dying ever since. who lied?

Please stop believing silly things just because they're stated over and over in scripture.
The silliness would be to ignore the fact that the scripture repeats the length of time as being a thousand years. When something is reiterated over and over, it is meant to get the readers attention, that what the scripture is saying, is exactly what it means.

Further more, if we were to apply something stated over and over again as being silly and unbelievable, then we would have to include the gospel which states over and over Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
lol, the way I read it, maxwel himself was being sarcastic :D (I could be mistaken though)


About the 1000 years... if Rev was the only reference to such a "time period," I could consider "Amill-teaching" a little more seriously, but it isn't. Rev's references to such a "time period" AGREES with the following:

[quoting my previous posts]

--"... note additionally the TWO "PUNISH" words which are SEPARATED by "and after many days" (meaning, "punish" not only at His Second Coming to the earth BUT ALSO the later GWTj [the TWO "punish" words in Isa24:21-22(23)]) and correlating [time-wise] with that of Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time (context/setting) of His Second Coming to the earth. Meaning, there is still much "time" that will transpire on the earth following His Second Coming to the earth."

--Daniel 7:27's "the greatness of the kingdom... UNDER the whole heaven" (following the very specific time period of v.25)
Yes I thought so!!

So he was responding to himself.....:)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
What you said above is really revealing of the truth and not supportive at all of your claim that "there is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture. The fact that "a thousand years" is repeated six times is very relevant and something that you and others should consider of utmost importance.

The deceptions of Satan are obvious when a person can read scripture, in this case "a thousand years," repeated six times and then come away not believing it. Why? Because they read books written by men who are introducing these false teachings, which you and others adopt. So, instead of believing what the word of God says, the teachings of men/Satan is accepted instead. It reminds me of the same deception that took place with Eve, where God said regarding the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Then Satan came along and said "no you won't die." And they've been dying ever since. who lied?



The silliness would be to ignore the fact that the scripture repeats the length of time as being a thousand years. When something is reiterated over and over, it is meant to get the readers attention, that what the scripture is saying, is exactly what it means.

Further more, if we were to apply something stated over and over again as being silly and unbelievable, then we would have to include the gospel which states over and over Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.
Well, when it comes to the nuances, figurative speech, hyperbole of a different language from a different culture a North American post-modern day lens is not going to cut it.

Near Eastern and Mediterranean languages are an entirely different expressive style.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
What you said above is really revealing of the truth and not supportive at all of your claim that "there is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture. The fact that "a thousand years" is repeated six times is very relevant and something that you and others should consider of utmost importance.

The deceptions of Satan are obvious when a person can read scripture, in this case "a thousand years," repeated six times and then come away not believing it. Why? Because they read books written by men who are introducing these false teachings, which you and others adopt. So, instead of believing what the word of God says, the teachings of men/Satan is accepted instead. It reminds me of the same deception that took place with Eve, where God said regarding the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Then Satan came along and said "no you won't die." And they've been dying ever since. who lied?



The silliness would be to ignore the fact that the scripture repeats the length of time as being a thousand years. When something is reiterated over and over, it is meant to get the readers attention, that what the scripture is saying, is exactly what it means.

Further more, if we were to apply something stated over and over again as being silly and unbelievable, then we would have to include the gospel which states over and over Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.

I was being sarcastic.

.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
What you said above is really revealing of the truth and not supportive at all of your claim that "there is no actual, specific, 1,000 year period in scripture. The fact that "a thousand years" is repeated six times is very relevant and something that you and others should consider of utmost importance.

The deceptions of Satan are obvious when a person can read scripture, in this case "a thousand years," repeated six times and then come away not believing it. Why? Because they read books written by men who are introducing these false teachings, which you and others adopt. So, instead of believing what the word of God says, the teachings of men/Satan is accepted instead. It reminds me of the same deception that took place with Eve, where God said regarding the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Then Satan came along and said "no you won't die." And they've been dying ever since. who lied?



The silliness would be to ignore the fact that the scripture repeats the length of time as being a thousand years. When something is reiterated over and over, it is meant to get the readers attention, that what the scripture is saying, is exactly what it means.

Further more, if we were to apply something stated over and over again as being silly and unbelievable, then we would have to include the gospel which states over and over Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.
Hermetically speaking, because the 6 references are only in one chapter of the Bible, they are considered to be ONE reference.

You have a lot of hermeneutical issues, including your literalism and "plain text" nonsense. I would advise you pick a course in the grammatical-historical hermeneutics, and learn how to correctly exegete a text. It would be so helpful for you.

Like coming up with Adam and Eve as a a reference for the fact that there is only ONE reference, NOT reiterated over and over, at all.

I would say, though, if you do want to use the serpent in the Garden of Eden, you are the one obviously being deceived!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
Hermetically speaking, because the 6 references are only in one chapter of the Bible, they are considered to be ONE reference.

You have a lot of hermeneutical issues, including your literalism and "plain text" nonsense. I would advise you pick a course in the grammatical-historical hermeneutics, and learn how to correctly exegete a text. It would be so helpful for you.

Like coming up with Adam and Eve as a a reference for the fact that there is only ONE reference, NOT reiterated over and over, at all.

I would say, though, if you do want to use the serpent in the Garden of Eden, you are the one obviously being deceived!
Why because I believe what scripture says in the plain, literal sense? Unlike many I have studied end-time events for over 40 years, so I know what I'm talking about.

You people who are applying symbolic meanings to information that is meant to be interpreted in its plain literal sense, are going to have to find out by seeing it first hand.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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Why because I believe what scripture says in the plain, literal sense? Unlike many I have studied end-time events for over 40 years, so I know what I'm talking about.

You people who are applying symbolic meanings to information that is meant to be interpreted in its plain literal sense, are going to have to find out by seeing it first hand.

Bible interpretation is NOT about symbolism. Some things are meant to be taken literally. Jesus birth, death and resurrection, for example! Salvation by grace through faith. And so on!

But the Bible is so much MORE than a book of facts to be taken literally!

It is the history of how God planned for his Son to be the atonement for our sins!

Understanding the Bible depends on genre, that is, is it a poem, a parable, a prophecy or a literal account of something?

It is so important to remember the Bible was written to people who lived thousands of years ago, with different languages, culture and ways of living. It also was written to us, but secondarily. The Bible is universal, it transcends space and time, but we need to look at each passage to see what the ancients thought first! And, that is not easy, for anyone, including scholars.

Then, the pages of the Bible must be illuminated by the Holy Spirit, also within the framework of context. The first thing we should ask ourselves, is how did the original audience understand this passage before we start grabbing verses out of context and stringing them together with other out of context verses, to make doctrine.

And language is so important! I would go so far as to say, it is nearly impossible to take the "plain meaning" of the text without understanding the original languages, the time and culture. I have seen too many people in this forum make wrong conclusions based on the English text, where there are errors, or it simply is very difficult to be translated from the parent language into English, because of simple things like the word order being radically different in Greek than in English.

Finally, self study is wonderful! We should all do it! But we should be humble, and read many viewpoints about a passage or topic. Sometimes that kind of home study leads to arrogance and pride. I studied and read the Bible for 25 years. When I went to seminary, I learned more about rational and reasonable ways to study the Bible in a few months, as opposed to 25 years of misguided study. I'm grateful every day God gave me so many tools at seminary, to really dig deep, into his Word!

I'm not saying we will all agree on everything. But, your hermeneutical principles are simplistic at best, sketchy and don't work on the other hand! That is what is causing you to think your studying is more valuable and closer to the truth, than any one of the rest of us, including my 38 years of Bible study.

Eschatology is a very difficult topic, one we won't truly understand until Jesus returns and judges us all! To say we have all the answers, especially based on a poor hermeneutic, is arrogance and pride at its worst. We simply do not have all the answers, but God does!

I look forward to the parousia or second coming. But, not a third coming, an invisible coming, nor a temple that the book of Hebrews totally refutes! Jesus died once for all! No temple or sacrifices needed! Regardless of what the Jews think is needed for the coming of Christ. God is in control, not a group of people who have rejected Jesus!

The plain meaning of the text is that Jesus literally died on the cross for our sins, so that we might enter into a relationship with God, having been forgiven our sins!
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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I look forward to the parousia or second coming.
yes but dont you curious at all about how it all happens? isnt it interesting to you?

if we cant know anything why does the bible talk so much about prophecy? it doesnt say us to just wait and see, we can only know after its over like you said

it said look these things.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Whew, ok, so I learned in this thread that Calvin was a closet homosexual, if you read the National Inquirer. I still don't know what Amills believe. When the dust settles I may find out. This thread has possibly gone further off track than any I've seen on CC, and buddy that's saying something. Wow!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
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Whew, ok, so I learned in this thread that Calvin was a closet homosexual, if you read the National Inquirer. I still don't know what Amills believe. When the dust settles I may find out. This thread has possibly gone further off track than any I've seen on CC, and buddy that's saying something. Wow!
For me the better way of describing my take is not millennialist, ie all the focus on this person
here is the anti-christ, the time of x is happening on this date, you will be raptured on y date,
has happened so many times, it makes you realise the idea is more appealing than the truth.

It makes me laugh when believers build bunkers to save themselves from the terrible
future, rather than invest in helping it not happen in the first place.