Are these beliefs sufficient for salvation?

[Jackson123]

What makes you so sure "they will carry on sinning"? Paul had more confidence in the power of grace to break sin in people's lives than you.

Or do you not realized the strength of sin is the law? 1 Corinthians 15:56

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is these verse mean:

1. The victory of death is sin.

We are in Christ, the death do not have victory on us, then we not carry on sinning?

 

[Guojing]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is these verse mean:

1. The victory of death is sin.

We are in Christ, the death do not have victory on us, then we not carry on sinning?

The context of that passage is about the rapture. Once death have been swallowed up, sin will totally lose its power over us in our new body. In our new body there is no longer the flesh, which can be stirred by the Law into sin.

Interestingly, the Corinth church is regarded as one of the most carnal churches in Paul's letters. All kinds of works of the flesh were committed, sexual immorality, sleeping with temple prostitutes, getting drunk, brothers suing one another and so on and so forth. After Paul reminded me that they are still the temple of God, he shared the mystery of the Rapture with them

51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

There goes the belief some people might have that, "Only those who live righteously and do not sin will be raptured! Amen!"

 

[Hungry]

The context of that passage is about the rapture. Once death have been swallowed up, sin will totally lose its power over us in our new body. In our new body there is no longer the flesh, which can be stirred by the Law into sin.

Interestingly, the Corinth church is regarded as one of the most carnal churches in Paul's letters. All kinds of works of the flesh were committed, sexual immorality, sleeping with temple prostitutes, getting drunk, brothers suing one another and so on and so forth. After Paul reminded me that they are still the temple of God, he shared the mystery of the Rapture with them

51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

There goes the belief some people might have that, "Only those who live righteously and do not sin will be raptured! Amen!"

If you keep reading:

58Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

It’s not a passive faith. Clear your mind for a second. Don’t try to argue or twist this simple concept. Just observe this and understand it.

A dog was created by God to be like wolves. They live in community and hunt and help control population of other species. They obey nature’s laws. They follow an alpha, they don’t murder eachother. They are always naked and manage to not have orgies. They don’t kill for fun. Now you take that animal and “train” him. You give him “law”. You give him the “knowledge of good and evil”. Now pay attention, the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is GUILT. Since the dog knows it’s wrong to go into the garbage, or wreck your shoes, or crap on your bed, he feels shame when doing this. He hides. Sound familiar? When you see the dog, he acts sheepishly. You see he feels bad for his behaviour and tries to submit, then you forgive him. As soon as you hug him or pet him. He perks right up and you’re best friends again. We were created like dogs to be workers for God.

Now to apply it to our situation. A town ordinance rules that there are too many wild dogs in the city, and they will be shot on sight. A wealthy man sends his son into the city to round up some strays. He feeds them and heals their wounds. In one case he jumped in front a dog being shot at and got shot himself. Then he told them to follow him home. There is a huge property to play in and they will be cared for.

Now what do you think the expectation would be of this rich man? Once trained do you think he would expect them to act again like savage beasts? Or do you think they should be expected to obey?

 

[Guojing]

If you keep reading:

58Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

It’s not a passive faith. Clear your mind for a second. Don’t try to argue or twist this simple concept. Just observe this and understand it.

I agree with you totally. Having the Blessed hope Titus 2:11–13, we are to live our lives as a testimony to Jesus, who is our righteousness. There will be rewards coming for what we do on this Earth, in the Bema seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10).

That is very different from having the wrong belief that "I should confess all my sins to the Lord each day, and make sure I do good deeds, otherwise I may lose my salvation, or that God may make me sick to teach me a lesson etc etc."

 

[know1]

I don't trust any church or pastor's doctrine but rely strictly on scripture as I am led to understand and practice by the Holy Spirit. Your guess is wrong.

Then how is it you agree with the majority of denominations?
And not only did you fail to prove me wrong concerning the scriptures I used for the subject of repentance for salvation, but you also failed to backed up your doctrine, since you "rely strictly on scripture".
I gave you some verses to show you why I believe repentance is for the believer and not the sinner, none of which you refuted, wouldn't it be appropriate for you to do the same, so we can discuss the matter further while delving into scripture?

 

[Jackson123]

I agree with you totally. Having the Blessed hope Titus 2:11–13, we are to live our lives as a testimony to Jesus, who is our righteousness. There will be rewards coming for what we do on this Earth, in the Bema seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10).

That is very different from having the wrong belief that "I should confess all my sins to the Lord each day, and make sure I do good deeds, otherwise I may lose my salvation, or that God may make me sick to teach me a lesson etc etc."

So you agree sinless life possible happen before rapture?

 

[Guojing]

So you agree sinless life possible happen before rapture?

Before I give you my view, do you know the difference between forgiveness and justification?

 

[know1]

Double talk...pure double talk. Why?

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word [the truth].

As for why, below is from post 96.

I'm going to guess by saying, you've been taught that doctrine by your church and/or pastor, right?
Yes, it is simple and easy to understand, unfortunately it's not scripturally accurate or biblically true.
I'm sure, like you, this doctrine was hammered into my thinking for years, until I sought God on it.
One of the scriptures that comes to mind which many believe proves we need to repent of our sins first, in order for us to be born again would be in Mar 1:15.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Because we have associated repentance to sin so much and for so long, anytime it's mentioned, we automatically think it's saying to turn from our sins. But that's not what the above verse is talking about.
If you look at what we are to repent of at the end of that verse, you should be able to see, it's not saying of sin, but of doubting the gospel.
It's only assumed the verse is talking about past sins, but doubting the gospel is a sin too.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

When does the Holy Spirit enter a person? Isn't it after one is born again?
To put it bluntly, it's NOT the unbeliever who needs to repent of their sins, but THE BELIEVERS.
Repentance is for the believers, NOT the sinners.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That was written to the believers.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

The sin the Comforter will convict/convince/reprove the world of is doubting the word of God, the gospel, the truth, the light and the like, for they are all descriptions of Jesus.
If you believe the word of God, you believe on Him.
If you believe the gospel, you again, believe on Jesus.
If you believe the truth or light, you believe on Him.
You say you are not aware of scripture that states what I have been saying?
Here are a few of them.

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

No repentance of sin mentioned as being necessary to eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood respectively.

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Do you see the word "repent" of one's sins anywhere in the above verses.
Do you think they forgot to write it in there?
Do you think they missed the "whole council of God"?
Keep in mind, if you have to add to those verses to make it the "whole council of God", then you just proved the verse to be a partial truth, which amounts to a lie and a deception.
If you have to add the word repent, to every verse, then you just rendered them useless, through omission of the rest of the truth.
There are many many more verses in the bible teaching the same.
Once a person is born again, then the Spirit will convict them of things they were doing that was offensive to God.
For example, long after I received Jesus as my savior, I started saying "Good God!" to some things, thinking it was okay to say.
But one day, after I said that, I heard a voice, not audible, tell me I was using the lord's name in vain.
It took me two months of hearing that before I could see it and stop saying that phrase.
I didn't know it was a sin UNTIL God told me it was a sin. I no longer say that anymore, because I repented of it, and God has since cleansed me of that sin.
Again, we are NOT automatically forgiven and washed in the blood of Jesus of past, present, and future sins. We are commanded to repent and confess, [confessing our sin is the act of one repenting of the same] and THEN the blood of Jesus will cleanse us anew, and we will then be forgiven of those sins.

 

[noblenut]

That Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins, that Jesus rose again on the third day, and that Jesus is Lord of all creation?

it not what we believe its how we believe, only if u love God with your whole heart and able to give up all for him and help your neighbour, these things are whats important

 

[Jackson123]

Before I give you my view, do you know the difference between forgiveness and justification?

I don't

 

[Guojing]

I don't

As expected. Okay here is my view, let's look at the following verse

(KJV) Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

I think Christians of all denominations have no problems believing that Jesus on the cross, has took our sins, and saved us. That is the garment of salvation.

But the divine exchange did more than that. We are not only clothed with the garment of salvation, we are also covered with an additional part, which is the robe of righteousness.

In some other translations, the term used is wrapped, indicating that we are completely covered. This means we are not only saved from the penalty of our sins, we are completely righteous in God's eyes.

To understand the degree of this “completely righteous”, take a look at three testimonies of Jesus righteousness from Peter, John, and Paul

1) Peter, a man of action, said in 1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

2) John, a man of love, said in 1 John 3:5, You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

3) Paul, a man of intellect, said in 2 Cor 5:21, For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So to address your question, sinless is what every Christian are under the New Covenant. It is what Jesus did that God imputed into your account, and not what you have done, nor what you will do after.

In God's eyes, your spirit did no sin, knew no sin, and in you there is no sin.

 

[Jackson123]

As expected. Okay here is my view, let's look at the following verse

(KJV) Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

I think Christians of all denominations have no problems believing that Jesus on the cross, has took our sins, and saved us. That is the garment of salvation.

But the divine exchange did more than that. We are not only clothed with the garment of salvation, we are also covered with an additional part, which is the robe of righteousness.

In some other translations, the term used is wrapped, indicating that we are completely covered. This means we are not only saved from the penalty of our sins, we are completely righteous in God's eyes.

To understand the degree of this “completely righteous”, take a look at three testimonies of Jesus righteousness from Peter, John, and Paul

1) Peter, a man of action, said in 1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

2) John, a man of love, said in 1 John 3:5, You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

3) Paul, a man of intellect, said in 2 Cor 5:21, For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So to address your question, sinless is what every Christian are under the New Covenant. It is what Jesus did that God imputed into your account, and not what you have done, nor what you will do after.

In God's eyes, your spirit did no sin, knew no sin, and in you there is no sin.

So you believe sinless happen before rapture, am I correct?

Why you say in your previous post it happen after rapture?

 

[Jackson123]

As expected. Okay here is my view, let's look at the following verse

(KJV) Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

I think Christians of all denominations have no problems believing that Jesus on the cross, has took our sins, and saved us. That is the garment of salvation.

But the divine exchange did more than that. We are not only clothed with the garment of salvation, we are also covered with an additional part, which is the robe of righteousness.

In some other translations, the term used is wrapped, indicating that we are completely covered. This means we are not only saved from the penalty of our sins, we are completely righteous in God's eyes.

To understand the degree of this “completely righteous”, take a look at three testimonies of Jesus righteousness from Peter, John, and Paul

1) Peter, a man of action, said in 1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth

2) John, a man of love, said in 1 John 3:5, You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

3) Paul, a man of intellect, said in 2 Cor 5:21, For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So to address your question, sinless is what every Christian are under the New Covenant. It is what Jesus did that God imputed into your account, and not what you have done, nor what you will do after.

In God's eyes, your spirit did no sin, knew no sin, and in you there is no sin.

So you believe if we rob the bank, we are sinless in the eyes of God, because He die for us

Then you agree we must be a life testimonies

If we rob the bank, is that good testimonies?

 

[Guojing]

So you believe sinless happen before rapture, am I correct?

Why you say in your previous post it happen after rapture?

God relates to you in the spirit, your true identity is your spirit. God does not see sin in your spirit.

As for your body, the flesh is still there and thus, with our unrenewed minds, we can still sin in our flesh. Only in rapture will you be given a new body and you cannot sin because the flesh is no longer present.

That is why I believe Jesus could not sin when he was on Earth, but that is another topic of discussion.

 

[Guojing]

So you believe if we rob the bank, we are sinless in the eyes of God, because He die for us

Then you agree we must be a life testimonies

If we rob the bank, is that good testimonies?

Here comes that usual objection that Paul had to answer twice, shall we sin more so that grace will increase. You know you are preaching the true Gospel of Grace as he did, when that objection comes up from your readers.

No one is asking you to "therefore go and sin". Right believing must come first, before you can live right.

 

[Jackson123]

Here comes that usual objection that Paul had to answer twice, shall we sin more so that grace will increase. You know you are preaching the true Gospel of Grace as he did, when that objection comes up from your readers.

No one is asking you to "therefore go and sin". Right believing must come first, before you can live right.

Correct me if I am wrong

1. You believe our flesh do sin.
2. But God do not mind because our spirit not sin.
3. What is the different between sin in flesh and sin in spirit

 

[Guojing]

Correct me if I am wrong

1. You believe our flesh do sin.
2. But God do not mind because our spirit not sin.
3. What is the different between sin in flesh and sin in spirit

The Book of Romans laid out the foundation of why we are justified by faith in Jesus, apart from works. Because you don't understand what justification really means as I have asked you previously, it will take some time before you will understand the Gospel of Grace laid out by the Apostle Paul.

Your point 2 made me chuckle, and is a good example why it takes some time to fully understand the Gospel of Grace. Its not God do not mind, that is a poor understanding of what justification means. Romans 3 stated

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

I like how I heard someone phrase the part in bold as "God is righteous, in making the sinner righteous"

 

[Jackson123]

The Book of Romans laid out the foundation of why we are justified by faith in Jesus, apart from works. Because you don't understand what justification really means as I have asked you previously, it will take some time before you will understand the Gospel of Grace laid out by the Apostle Paul.

Your point 2 made me chuckle, and is a good example why it takes some time to fully understand the Gospel of Grace. Its not God do not mind, that is a poor understanding of what justification means. Romans 3 stated

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

I like how I heard someone phrase the part in bold as "God is righteous, in making the sinner righteous"

You not answer my question, let me repeat it

You say our spirit not sin but our flesh is.

What is the different? Is our flesh sin why not come from our mind or spirit?

 

[NayborBear]

You not answer my question, let me repeat it

You say our spirit not sin but our flesh is.

What is the different? Is our flesh sin why not come from our mind or spirit?

The Apocryphon of James

"Woe to you who lack an advocate! Woe to you who stand in need of grace! Blessed will they be who have spoken out and obtained grace for themselves."
"Or do you perhaps think that the Father is a lover of mankind, or that he is won over without prayers, or that he grants remission to one on another's behalf, or that he bears with one who asks?"
"(Or do you think) that it is not this (flesh) that desires the soul? For without the soul, the body does not sin, just as the soul is not saved without the spirit. But if the soul is saved (when it is) without evil, and the spirit is also saved, then the body becomes free from sin. For it is the spirit that raises the soul, but the body that kills it; that is, it is it (the soul) which kills itself. Verily, I say unto you, he will not forgive the soul the sin by any means, nor the flesh the guilt; for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. For do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven?"

 

[TLC209]

You not answer my question, let me repeat it

You say our spirit not sin but our flesh is.

What is the different? Is our flesh sin why not come from our mind or spirit?

Bro get used to it. Guojing doesnt answer questions. He answers in circles. He tends to answer questions with a question or diverts far left avoiding the questions. Any time his theory falls apart he avoids the question. The same goes for all liars. Ive debunked his false doctrine numerous times. And got no answers. Only chuckles and a smiley face.