The Bible, the Promised Land, and the Quran

[newton3003]

Didn’t mean for the title to be one of the answers given Karnak the Magician for him to guess the related question, but if you will, the question could be, ‘Name 3 things that refer to the land of the Hebrews.’

So where is this land, that God gave to Abraham in Genesis and promised Moses in Exodus? Numbers 34:1-12 says the following:

“The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, ‘Command the people of Israel, and say to them, When you enter the land of Canaan b(this is the land that shall fall to you for an inheritance, the land of Canaan as defined by its borders), your south side shall be from the wilderness of Zin alongside Edom, and your southern border shall run from the end of the Salt Sea on the east. And your border shall turn south of the ascent of Akrabbim, and cross to Zin, and its limit shall be south of Kadesh-barnea. Then it shall go on to Hazar-addar, and pass along to Azmon. And the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and its limit shall be at the sea. “For the western border, you shall have the Great Sea and its coast. This shall be your western border.

"‘This shall be your northern border: from the Great Sea you shall draw a line to Mount Hor. From Mount Hor you shall draw a line to Lebo-hamath, and the limit of the border shall be at Zedad. Then the border shall extend to Ziphron, and its limit shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your northern border.

"‘You shall draw a line for your eastern border from Hazar-enan to Shepham. And the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain. And the border shall go down and reach to the shoulder of the Sea of Chinnereth on the east. And the border shall go down to the Jordan, and its limit shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land as defined by its borders all around.'”

Anyone having varying degrees of familiarity with geography would have at least a general idea of where this land would be. The Salt Sea would be the Dead Sea, the Brook of Egypt would be the Nile River, and the Great Sea would be the Mediterranean.

God in Genesis 15:18 gives some more detail when He says to Abraham, ““To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates.”

A map of this general area is shown at

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Greater_Israel_map.jpg

As you can see, it includes the land now occupied by others in addition to those in Israel. Even the Quran acknowledges the land given to the Hebrews when it says in Surah: 17 - سورة الإسراء - Al-Isra (The night journey) [104], “And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, ‘Dwell securely in the land (of promise).’”

Who does the land belong to, according to the Bible? As Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise,” it belongs not only to the Hebrews, but also to the Christians. To the extent the Quran regards Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous, it could at least be inferred that the Quran may acknowledge the land as belonging to Jesus’ followers as well.

Where does that leave everyone else under these premises? It would leave them subject to the rule of the modern-day Hebrews and Jesus’ followers if they live on that land. They could be given certain authority in government, as long as their authority is in the minority to prevent the Promised Land from losing its identity in terms of its Biblical heirs.

Will we ever get to that point? That remains to be seen.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Who does the land belong to, according to the Bible? As Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise,” it belongs not only to the Hebrews, but also to the Christians.

That is incorrect. That land belongs to the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL after Israel is redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel under Christ. See Ezekiel 48.

As to the Quran, both Christians and Jews can ignore it.

 

[newton3003]

That is incorrect. That land belongs to the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL after Israel is redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel under Christ. See Ezekiel 48.

Go back and read Galatians 3:29. It designates Christians as being Abraham's offspring. To me, whatever Abraham was entitled to, his offspring is entitled to as well. In that regard, why would Christians have less of a right to that land than those that God originally promised the land to?

As far as i know, I am biologically descended from Abraham. If you are a Christian and are not so descended, am I more worthy of the Promised Land than you are?

If you're going to rely solely on the Old Testament, then you may as well ignore the New Testament.

 

[newton3003]

If you're going to rely solely on the Old Testament, then you may as well ignore the New Testament.

***I don't know of any circumstance in which any Christian would ignore the New Testament.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Go back and read Galatians 3:29. It designates Christians as being Abraham's offspring.

Correct. And only because all believers are saved exactly as Abraham was saved. He is "the father of us all".

But that does not nullify God's promises to the twelve tribes of Israel -- also called "the seed" of Abraham. After the Second Coming of Christ those twelve tribes will be allotted their respective portions in the land of Israel, and will be settled there. But there will be no Gentile Christians within Israel. See Ezekiel 48, which is yet to be fulfilled. The Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body) will live in the New Jerusalem.

 

[garee]

Go back and read Galatians 3:29. It designates Christians as being Abraham's offspring. To me, whatever Abraham was entitled to, his offspring is entitled to as well. In that regard, why would Christians have less of a right to that land than those that God originally promised the land to?

As far as i know, I am biologically descended from Abraham. If you are a Christian and are not so descended, am I more worthy of the Promised Land than you are?

If you're going to rely solely on the Old Testament, then you may as well ignore the New Testament.

The promise was to Abraham's off spring as the spiritual seed Christ(one) . Not seeds in respect to the flesh (many) the promised land is the eternal not seen not a shadow of it the temporal .

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

 

[crossnote]

To the extent the Quran regards Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous, it could at least be inferred that the Quran may acknowledge the land as belonging to Jesus’ followers as well.

The Koran has a different Jesus, period. To them God does not have a Son, to us Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father.

 

[garee]

The Koran has a different Jesus, period. To them God does not have a Son, to us Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father.

The Koran as a oral tradition of man is false prophecy .If we try the spirits to see if they are of men or of God .They prove to be false witnesses . We have the perfect word of God. The idea adding to it eastern philosophy is not a biblical teaching. Any man called a prophet after John violates the warning not to add or subtract from the whole. .No longer having the word of God prophecy in part as before the book of Revelation. That trial can be used in all who say; thus says the Lord, even knowing His is silent and has sealed up his will till the end of time with seven seals . This includes the Mormons and their book of the law Mormonism, or Jehovah Witnesses with their addition written in a book of the law of men . No man can serve two written masters in that way .

 

[crossnote]

The Koran as a oral tradition of man is false prophecy .If we try the spirits to see if they are of men or of God .They prove to be false witnesses . We have the perfect word of God. The idea adding to it eastern philosophy is not a biblical teaching. Any man called a prophet after John violates the warning not to add or subtract from the whole. .No longer having the word of God prophecy in part as before the book of Revelation. That trial can be used in all who say; thus says the Lord, even knowing His is silent and has sealed up his will till the end of time with seven seals . This includes the Mormons and their book of the law Mormonism, or Jehovah Witnesses with their addition written in a book of the law of men . No man can serve two written masters in that way .

I agree, but I would have addressed Newton, since he brought up the Koran and Jesus.

 

[Noose]

You, just like the Korean, got it wrong. The promised land is nothing more than a correct heart (Mind), the mind that knows God, the mind that God occupies - this is the mind that the saints were promised to occupy, it has nothing to do with soil or geography.

 

[garee]

Correct. And only because all believers are saved exactly as Abraham was saved. He is "the father of us all".

But that does not nullify God's promises to the twelve tribes of Israel -- also called "the seed" of Abraham. After the Second Coming of Christ those twelve tribes will be allotted their respective portions in the land of Israel, and will be settled there. But there will be no Gentile Christians within Israel. See Ezekiel 48, which is yet to be fulfilled. The Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body) will live in the New Jerusalem.

I would offer. The twelve tribes represent seeds (many) of Abraham "one nation" not seed single, which is the spiritual seed Christ, by which all men are born again.

Corrupted flesh and spirit givers birth to corrupted flesh but the incorruptible seed of God's Spirit gives birth to a spirit that will never die. Unlike the corruptible spirit men are born with .

Christ declared in John 3 marvel not

John 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This includes the corrupted flesh and corrupted spirit of Abraham who must be born again.. The new name Abraham was set aside for another purpose other that seeds of the flesh....many .The word Abraham means father of a multitude of nations not just one as seeds. (many)

The Bosom of Abraham is the invisible presence of God. The holy unseen place, our source of faith according to the new testament parable in Luke 16 .

Galatians 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[garee]

I agree, but I would have addressed Newton, since he brought up the Koran and Jesus.

Sorry did not mean to offend.

 

[memyselfi]

Didn’t mean for the title to be one of the answers given Karnak the Magician for him to guess the related question, but if you will, the question could be, ‘Name 3 things that refer to the land of the Hebrews.’

So where is this land, that God gave to Abraham in Genesis and promised Moses in Exodus? Numbers 34:1-12 says the following:

“The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, ‘Command the people of Israel, and say to them, When you enter the land of Canaan b(this is the land that shall fall to you for an inheritance, the land of Canaan as defined by its borders), your south side shall be from the wilderness of Zin alongside Edom, and your southern border shall run from the end of the Salt Sea on the east. And your border shall turn south of the ascent of Akrabbim, and cross to Zin, and its limit shall be south of Kadesh-barnea. Then it shall go on to Hazar-addar, and pass along to Azmon. And the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and its limit shall be at the sea. “For the western border, you shall have the Great Sea and its coast. This shall be your western border.

"‘This shall be your northern border: from the Great Sea you shall draw a line to Mount Hor. From Mount Hor you shall draw a line to Lebo-hamath, and the limit of the border shall be at Zedad. Then the border shall extend to Ziphron, and its limit shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your northern border.

"‘You shall draw a line for your eastern border from Hazar-enan to Shepham. And the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain. And the border shall go down and reach to the shoulder of the Sea of Chinnereth on the east. And the border shall go down to the Jordan, and its limit shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land as defined by its borders all around.'”

Anyone having varying degrees of familiarity with geography would have at least a general idea of where this land would be. The Salt Sea would be the Dead Sea, the Brook of Egypt would be the Nile River, and the Great Sea would be the Mediterranean.

God in Genesis 15:18 gives some more detail when He says to Abraham, ““To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates.”

A map of this general area is shown at

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Greater_Israel_map.jpg

As you can see, it includes the land now occupied by others in addition to those in Israel. Even the Quran acknowledges the land given to the Hebrews when it says in Surah: 17 - سورة الإسراء - Al-Isra (The night journey) [104], “And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, ‘Dwell securely in the land (of promise).’”

Who does the land belong to, according to the Bible? As Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise,” it belongs not only to the Hebrews, but also to the Christians. To the extent the Quran regards Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous, it could at least be inferred that the Quran may acknowledge the land as belonging to Jesus’ followers as well.

Where does that leave everyone else under these premises? It would leave them subject to the rule of the modern-day Hebrews and Jesus’ followers if they live on that land. They could be given certain authority in government, as long as their authority is in the minority to prevent the Promised Land from losing its identity in terms of its Biblical heirs.

Will we ever get to that point? That remains to be seen.

Lets wit for Y-shua to return…. The King of Kings…. He gave the land to Abraham…. Y-shua/Jesus will sort it all out... Every knee will bowl to HIM, so even the Arabs/ EVERYONE ELSE will submit to HIS BOUNDRIES!!!!

 

[Miri]

The promised land was a physical location in the OT.
Just as the temple was a physical building,

Now the promised land is our hope and future, eternity with Christ and our
bodies are the true temple of the Holy Spirit.

I know there are various prophesies in the bible about the holy lands and temple, as signs etc.

“But honestly it don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that thing.”
Doesn’t matter where you live or what nationality you are.

 

[Dan58]

Go back and read Galatians 3:29. It designates Christians as being Abraham's offspring. To me, whatever Abraham was entitled to, his offspring is entitled to as well. In that regard, why would Christians have less of a right to that land than those that God originally promised the land to?

As far as i know, I am biologically descended from Abraham. If you are a Christian and are not so descended, am I more worthy of the Promised Land than you are?

If you're going to rely solely on the Old Testament, then you may as well ignore the New Testament.

Galatians 3:29 is more of a spiritual promise, the preceding verse 26 says; "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus".
The promise isn't referring to land, but salvation to everyone including Gentiles; "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). So it is all inclusive. These verses expound upon it; "Ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8: 15-17)

As for the promised land dispute, it goes all the way back to when God promised the land to Abraham's descendant's, but the waters got muddy after that. “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” (Gen. 17:8)

Judaism argues that they are the people to whom God gave the promised land as an everlasting possession, that is because they claim to be the children of Abraham through Isaac. Islam teaches the same thing, and believe the land is theirs because they are the children of Abraham through Ishmael.

The Koran teaches that Ishmael was the one through whom God’s covenant would be fulfilled. Allah gives Abraham two sons Jacob and Ishmael, with Ishmael being the one that Abraham offered on the altar to Allah (Islam believes the Jews altered the passage and substituted Isaac as the sacrifice). Its this Isaac-Ishmael factor that sets Islam against Judaism. Islam teaches that the firstborn inherits the land, and Ishmael was the first son of Abraham "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his" (Deuteronomy 21: 15-17)

 

[newton3003]

The new name Abraham was set aside for another purpose other that seeds of the flesh....many .The word Abraham means father of a multitude of nations not just one as seeds. (many)

New name Abraham? So in Genesis 17:5-8 God says, “No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, I will be their God.”

Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”

Nehemiah 6 brings up on this thread that Ezekiel 48 divides the land among the 12 tribes of Israel. This is after God changed Abram’s name to Abraham. Inasmuch as the 12 tribes are offspring of Abraham, and Galatians 3:29 says that if we’re Christ’s we are Abraham’s offspring too, adding “heirs according to a promise,” the land is as much the land of those who are Christ’s as the 12 tribes.

Is there any passage in the Bible that differentiates between the spiritual covenant and the covenant that applies to the land that God made with Abraham, as far as people of Christ are concerned, after considering Genesis 17:5-8, Galatians 3:29 and even Ezekiel 48?

 

[JaumeJ]

Abraham may be translated as honored father of peoples (the same as nations):

Am is people in Hebrew while peoples woulc be amim in modern Hebrew.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Nehemiah 6 brings up on this thread that Ezekiel 48 divides the land among the 12 tribes of Israel.

The stranger who dwells among the Israelites is also to partake of the land promise:

Ezekiel 47:22-23 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.


See Leviticus 19:33-34 in order to understand why God wants His people to acknowledge the stranger ... And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

 

[crossnote]

You, just like the Korean, got it wrong. The promised land is nothing more than a correct heart (Mind), the mind that knows God, the mind that God occupies - this is the mind that the saints were promised to occupy, it has nothing to do with soil or geography.

That's allegorizing if I ever have seen it. Do you have any Scriptural basis for those statements?
Do you believe Jesus rose physically from the dead and that His return will be physical and He will set up a physical Kingdom on this physical earth, or it's just 'nothing more than a correct heart'...'the heart that God occupies'?

 

[crossnote]

. Inasmuch as the 12 tribes are offspring of Abraham, and Galatians 3:29 says that if we’re Christ’s we are Abraham’s offspring too, adding “heirs according to a promise,” the land is as much the land of those who are Christ’s as the 12 tribes.

To help us out, do you have any Scriptures that explicitly say the Church will inherit the land promised to Israel? Especially in the light of...

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (notice it is a future and something new entity).\

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Do we inherit the curses as well as the blessings, like the Land?