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HOLD YOUR HORSES, NOT ALL WILL MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.
ONLY THE FIRST FRUITS WILL MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR,IN THE CLOUDS.
THE FIRST FRUITS ARE THE 144000 IN REV CH. 7 CH.14.
THOSE ARE THE ONES MENTIONED IN MAT.24: 40. 41. TWO INTHE FIELD
ONE WILL BE TAKEN , ONE LEFT==ONE LEFT == ONE LEFT TWO IN BED,
ONE LEFT===ONE LEFT. SO VERY SPARINGLY TAKEN. NOT IN MASSES.
THE MAJORITY MUST GO TROUGH THE TRIB. I AM SORRY TO HAVE TO INFORM
YOU THIS, BUT THIS IS HOW IT GOING TO BE, UNLESS YOUR SPECIAL IN GODS
EYES. THESE ARE THE ONES THAT FOLLOW THE LAMB WHERE SO EVER HE GOES
MOST CHRISTIAN ARE LUKE WARM, THEREFORE MUST MAKE A DEFINITE
CHOICE BY TAKING THE MARK OR NOT. DONT LET THEM LUL YOU ASLEEP.
HAVE A NICE ONE.
WAKEUP.
this is coming from a guy who posts a "prophecy" coming directly from "Jesus" without a quam.
what will you do when you find out you are wrong?
when you realize Jesus fulfilled all 70 weeks according to the Scriptues, then what?
when you find out pretribulation rapture is a fraud, then what?
i just don't know how simple it has to be. it's astonishing really.
let's try this:
Rapture Debunked in Less Than 3 Minutes
YouTube - Rapture Debunked in Less Than 3 Minutes
just address the extra trumpet for starters. nothing else. that should be easy, right?
what will you do when you find out you are wrong?
when you realize Jesus fulfilled all 70 weeks according to the Scriptues, then what?
when you find out pretribulation rapture is a fraud, then what?
i just don't know how simple it has to be. it's astonishing really.
let's try this:
Rapture Debunked in Less Than 3 Minutes
YouTube - Rapture Debunked in Less Than 3 Minutes
just address the extra trumpet for starters. nothing else. that should be easy, right?
from Red, the anti-party spirit preacher.
the anti-soul power relationship preacher.
the anti-false prophet preacher.
sides with a false prophet against a genuine man of God (endofallfears) to buttress his pretrib rapture fallacy.
mkay....i wonder how much integrity you have - will you come back and tell people you were wrong about pretrib and hagee and all that Scofield junk? or will you just fade away?
the anti-soul power relationship preacher.
the anti-false prophet preacher.
sides with a false prophet against a genuine man of God (endofallfears) to buttress his pretrib rapture fallacy.
mkay....i wonder how much integrity you have - will you come back and tell people you were wrong about pretrib and hagee and all that Scofield junk? or will you just fade away?
It does my soul good to see believers like you get so stirred up over doctrine, especially when you are so convinced in what you believe, even if what you believe is not right. I like Coop and none of us are perfect in terms of sin, conviction, righteousness and doctrine both in theology and practicality. But when you are way off, then you are way off and that can't be helped for the most part unless an angel came down from heaven and knocked you to the ground to force feed you the truth and would not leave until you repented and all the while was covering your ignorance and stupidity with his promotional wings of wisdom and understanding (full of eyes). LOL
L
Errors and problems with this line of thinking:
JW error: ONLY 144,000 will make it in the rapture: TOTALLY FALSE.
Error: that the 144,000 has ANYTHING to do with the rapture.
Error: that those that do go up in the rapture are descendants of Jacob.
The truth is, the 144,000 are indeed firstfruits, but of the JEWS, and descendants of Jacob. They do not believe in Jesus at the time of the rapture, so they are sealed for their protection right AFTER the rapture. But it seems the rapture is what causes them to become believers.
It is the GENTILE church that meets the Lord in the air - meaning that by far the biggest part of them will be Gentiles before conversion. And it will be MILLIONS that are caught up - if not billions. Note: if one is taken and one left, that is 50%!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally one thing correct: for those left behind, they will be forced into a choice: deny the mark and lose their head, or take the mark and be doomed.
Coop
L
How can anyone "debunk" truth in ANY amount of time?
Trumpets: if we searched the entire bible we would find myriads of trumpet blasts.
Gatherings: if we searched the entire bible we would find many gatherings.
Quote: "you can conclude that these are all referring to the same event"
How silly can someone be? You don't make ANY such conclusion without studying the DIFFERENCES. And there ARE differences.
One might give directions: "Follow 71st street to the last light, and turn right - you can't miss it!"
So what does that mean, "last light?" Is it the last light in the world? Of course not! It is the last light in the series of lights from where they are now, down 71st street to the FINAL light of that series down 71st. And anyone getting these instructions would understand that is not the last light in the world. Such a conclusion could only come from massive stupidity or a VERY poor understanding of language.
"Wow! That's a nice buck! How did you get him?"
"I saw a whole herd run past my stand, and I shot the last one, which was this buck."
Would anyone in their right mind take this to be the last buck in the world? No, this is the last buck IN THE HERD that was seen.
QUESTION: Will God send angels to collect EVERY TRUMPET in the universe after Paul's "last trump" so that there could never, ever, be another trumpet sound? Do you think? how silly can someone be in their interpretation of the written word? Most people with NO knowledge of the bible would conclude that this "last trump" is the last trump of a CERTAIN SERIES of trumpet blasts. Most Jews knowledgeable of the word of God, would conclude it was probably speaking of the last trumpet of the FEAST of trumpets.
Therefore, common sense alone shows how totally silly the argument is that NO OTHER trumpet blast will ever be blown. Do you just suppose there will be trumpets in the millennium?
There is a gathering of the 144,000. They must be sealed. They are also gathered around the throne in heaven. But they have NOTHING to do with the gathering in Matt. 24 or the gathering at Paul's rapture.
Here are some gatheringings:
Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:48
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him
Revelation 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Are these all the same "gathering?" Of course they are not. One must study each one, and the context it is in, to determine which of these may be the same gathering.
If you imagine that the Matthew 24 gathering is the rapture, then how do you explain the rapture gathering people from HEAVEN? Jesus will bring the dead in Christ WITH HIM, so there will be no gathering of them. And the rapture will gather people from under the earth and on the earth.
Do you see how totally silly you look believing in a doctrine of devils? It does not even make sense. If you would study 1 Thes. 5, you would know that the rapture comes before the Day of the Lord.
Get it straight" Jesus comes PRETRIB for His bride. If you are not looking for Him then, you will be left behind. It will not be fun.
Coop
Trumpets: if we searched the entire bible we would find myriads of trumpet blasts.
Gatherings: if we searched the entire bible we would find many gatherings.
Quote: "you can conclude that these are all referring to the same event"
How silly can someone be? You don't make ANY such conclusion without studying the DIFFERENCES. And there ARE differences.
One might give directions: "Follow 71st street to the last light, and turn right - you can't miss it!"
So what does that mean, "last light?" Is it the last light in the world? Of course not! It is the last light in the series of lights from where they are now, down 71st street to the FINAL light of that series down 71st. And anyone getting these instructions would understand that is not the last light in the world. Such a conclusion could only come from massive stupidity or a VERY poor understanding of language.
"Wow! That's a nice buck! How did you get him?"
"I saw a whole herd run past my stand, and I shot the last one, which was this buck."
Would anyone in their right mind take this to be the last buck in the world? No, this is the last buck IN THE HERD that was seen.
QUESTION: Will God send angels to collect EVERY TRUMPET in the universe after Paul's "last trump" so that there could never, ever, be another trumpet sound? Do you think? how silly can someone be in their interpretation of the written word? Most people with NO knowledge of the bible would conclude that this "last trump" is the last trump of a CERTAIN SERIES of trumpet blasts. Most Jews knowledgeable of the word of God, would conclude it was probably speaking of the last trumpet of the FEAST of trumpets.
Therefore, common sense alone shows how totally silly the argument is that NO OTHER trumpet blast will ever be blown. Do you just suppose there will be trumpets in the millennium?
There is a gathering of the 144,000. They must be sealed. They are also gathered around the throne in heaven. But they have NOTHING to do with the gathering in Matt. 24 or the gathering at Paul's rapture.
Here are some gatheringings:
Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:48
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him
Revelation 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Are these all the same "gathering?" Of course they are not. One must study each one, and the context it is in, to determine which of these may be the same gathering.
If you imagine that the Matthew 24 gathering is the rapture, then how do you explain the rapture gathering people from HEAVEN? Jesus will bring the dead in Christ WITH HIM, so there will be no gathering of them. And the rapture will gather people from under the earth and on the earth.
Do you see how totally silly you look believing in a doctrine of devils? It does not even make sense. If you would study 1 Thes. 5, you would know that the rapture comes before the Day of the Lord.
Get it straight" Jesus comes PRETRIB for His bride. If you are not looking for Him then, you will be left behind. It will not be fun.
Coop
E
What shall be the sign of the coming of the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth.
10*The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
11*The Lord gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?
30*“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31*The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32*And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls. (Joel 2:10-11, 30-32)
25*“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26*men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27*Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28*Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Lu 21:25-28)
29*“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30*Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31*And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Mt 24:29-31)
24* “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25*the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26*Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27*And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. (Mk 13:24-27)
20* Is not the day of the Lord darkness, and not light?
Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it? (Amos 5:20)
12*I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13*And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14*Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15*And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16*and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17*For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev 6:12-16)
It would appear the Old Testament prophets, and Jesus Christ, tell us the Day of the Lord is proceeded by a darkened sun and a moon turning to blood. This corresponds with the opening of the 6th Seal.
Chapter 7 is a brief respite while the 144,000 are sealed and those within the tribulation appear in heaven (the Rapture). Afterward, the 7th Seal is opened, revealing the 7 trumpets, and the Day of the Lord begins.
I find it hard to believe God would start the event of His Wrath upon the earth, and then have the sign of His wrath come later. That's like putting stop signs at the far end of an intersection.
10*The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
11*The Lord gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?
30*“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31*The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32*And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls. (Joel 2:10-11, 30-32)
25*“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26*men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27*Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28*Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” (Lu 21:25-28)
29*“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30*Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31*And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Mt 24:29-31)
24* “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25*the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26*Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27*And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. (Mk 13:24-27)
20* Is not the day of the Lord darkness, and not light?
Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it? (Amos 5:20)
12*I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
13*And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14*Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15*And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16*and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17*For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev 6:12-16)
It would appear the Old Testament prophets, and Jesus Christ, tell us the Day of the Lord is proceeded by a darkened sun and a moon turning to blood. This corresponds with the opening of the 6th Seal.
Chapter 7 is a brief respite while the 144,000 are sealed and those within the tribulation appear in heaven (the Rapture). Afterward, the 7th Seal is opened, revealing the 7 trumpets, and the Day of the Lord begins.
I find it hard to believe God would start the event of His Wrath upon the earth, and then have the sign of His wrath come later. That's like putting stop signs at the far end of an intersection.
But it seems the rapture is what causes them to become believers.
prove this by any means whatsoever.
It is the GENTILE church that meets the Lord in the air
oh my.
sooo......what about my jewish friends who have become Christians? do they get "left behind"? or are they gentiles now?
LOL!
~
will the real letter by the Hebrew of Hebrews Paul please stand up?
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then you gentiles who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so you gentiles will always be with the Lord but we Hebrews will be left behind.
so coop.
you covered:
- gatherings
- traffic lights
- deer
- more gatherings
- 144,000
AND THE SECOND ADVENT.
where's your trumpets study? you don't have one.
and, according to your lame theory, anyone not "looking" into the sky will be "left behind". tell me coop....do you work? what does your boss say about you NEVER LOOKING AT YOUR TASK?
how do you manage to drive without crashing your car?
If you are not looking for Him then, you will be left behind. It will not be fun.
seriously though (as hard as this is)....did Jesus come all the way from Glory, live a Perfectly Righteous life under The Law, die an agonizing death on Calvary and Rise from the dead so that anyone who is looking into the sky can get saved?
are you for real? do you have the whole collection?
Do you just suppose there will be trumpets in the millennium?
Here are some gatheringings:
Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him
Revelation 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
psssst....coop......ALL SECOND ADVENT!
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
Mystery and Victory
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
BUT, we are to believe, Paul didn't REALLY mean the LAST TRUMPET. Behold! I tell you a mystery.
~
this is absolutely baffling that you yourself could write this, yet not see it.
you covered:
- gatherings
- traffic lights
- deer
- more gatherings
- 144,000
AND THE SECOND ADVENT.
where's your trumpets study? you don't have one.
and, according to your lame theory, anyone not "looking" into the sky will be "left behind". tell me coop....do you work? what does your boss say about you NEVER LOOKING AT YOUR TASK?
how do you manage to drive without crashing your car?
If you are not looking for Him then, you will be left behind. It will not be fun.
seriously though (as hard as this is)....did Jesus come all the way from Glory, live a Perfectly Righteous life under The Law, die an agonizing death on Calvary and Rise from the dead so that anyone who is looking into the sky can get saved?
are you for real? do you have the whole collection?
Do you just suppose there will be trumpets in the millennium?
Here are some gatheringings:
Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him
Revelation 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
psssst....coop......ALL SECOND ADVENT!
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
Mystery and Victory
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
BUT, we are to believe, Paul didn't REALLY mean the LAST TRUMPET. Behold! I tell you a mystery.
~
this is absolutely baffling that you yourself could write this, yet not see it.
hmmmm....
who are these being killed on earth while Jesus and the other saints are in Heaven?
oh ya! i guess those in Heaven are the lucky gentiles who happened to be looking up into the sky at the right moment, and the saints being killed on earth are the jews who weren't looking? isn't that how you had it? how does it work again?
Revelation 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slavee and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
what?? 12-17 sounds like endofallfears' study of the cosmic signs and Second Advent....huh?
how come there are "saints" on earth called "fellow servants and brothers"? are they the 144,000? who are they?
and who are these deep into the tribulation? unlucky jews who weren't looking up? if its the 144,000 how come they have faith in Jesus?
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Revelation 13:10
If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
(btw: in your theory is the Holy Spirit the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2? and He leaves the earth at the "rapture" doesn't He?....if so, how did those "saints" have faith in Jesus, especially with the 'gentile church" missing)
also: PLEASE SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE where ANYONE says anything remotely like..."hey! where did all the Gentile Christians go?...this must be the rapture"
~ actually, i'm being to have my suspicions about anybody still teaching this stuff, and with as much vigour as some....curiouser and curiouser.
who are these being killed on earth while Jesus and the other saints are in Heaven?
oh ya! i guess those in Heaven are the lucky gentiles who happened to be looking up into the sky at the right moment, and the saints being killed on earth are the jews who weren't looking? isn't that how you had it? how does it work again?
Revelation 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slavee and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
what?? 12-17 sounds like endofallfears' study of the cosmic signs and Second Advent....huh?
how come there are "saints" on earth called "fellow servants and brothers"? are they the 144,000? who are they?
and who are these deep into the tribulation? unlucky jews who weren't looking up? if its the 144,000 how come they have faith in Jesus?
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Revelation 13:10
If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
(btw: in your theory is the Holy Spirit the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2? and He leaves the earth at the "rapture" doesn't He?....if so, how did those "saints" have faith in Jesus, especially with the 'gentile church" missing
)also: PLEASE SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE where ANYONE says anything remotely like..."hey! where did all the Gentile Christians go?...this must be the rapture"
~ actually, i'm being to have my suspicions about anybody still teaching this stuff, and with as much vigour as some....curiouser and curiouser.
L
But it seems the rapture is what causes them to become believers.
prove this by any means whatsoever.
Do you HAVE some Jewish friends that became born again?
I guess you did not read the rest of what I wrote?
"meaning that by far the biggest part of them will be Gentiles before conversion..."
We both know that IN CHRIST there is neither Jew nor Gentile. But I understand, you just want to argue. As I said, you would argue with the Holy Spirit. In fact you DO.
Do you have any idea what percentage of the world are descendants of Jacob, versus the rest of the world? It is a VERY SMALL percentage. A 5th grader would know that. But you just want to argue.
It will BE mostly Gentiles, because the world is mostly Gentile. But I understand; you just wish to argue.
Coop
E
Concerning the "Last Trump" of God.
13 For I have bent Judah, My bow,
Fitted the bow with Ephraim,
And raised up your sons, O Zion,
Against your sons, O Greece,
And made you like the sword of a mighty man.”
14 Then the LORD will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord GOD will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The LORD of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The LORD their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land." (Zech 9:13-16)
The near prophecy is the defeat of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C., whom is refered to by Christ historically as the "abomination of desolation". The shift to the future then comes in verse 16 when Israel as a nation will be saved after the second and last time God blows His trumpet. This will occur when Christ rescues the church, as we are told,
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52)
and also,
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thes 4:16)
We also see that this same trumpet initiates the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, according to Zechariah, as well as Paul, as we are told,
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess 2:8)
It is indeed the Trump of God that initiates both the Rapture, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, at the same time. Just as Noah was placed into the ark just before the rain fell, just as Lot was forced out of the city just before it's judgement, so shall the church be pulled out from within the Tribulation just before the Lord's wrath. His pattern is continuous and perfect.
13 For I have bent Judah, My bow,
Fitted the bow with Ephraim,
And raised up your sons, O Zion,
Against your sons, O Greece,
And made you like the sword of a mighty man.”
14 Then the LORD will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord GOD will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The LORD of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The LORD their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land." (Zech 9:13-16)
The near prophecy is the defeat of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C., whom is refered to by Christ historically as the "abomination of desolation". The shift to the future then comes in verse 16 when Israel as a nation will be saved after the second and last time God blows His trumpet. This will occur when Christ rescues the church, as we are told,
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52)
and also,
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thes 4:16)
We also see that this same trumpet initiates the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, according to Zechariah, as well as Paul, as we are told,
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess 2:8)
It is indeed the Trump of God that initiates both the Rapture, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, at the same time. Just as Noah was placed into the ark just before the rain fell, just as Lot was forced out of the city just before it's judgement, so shall the church be pulled out from within the Tribulation just before the Lord's wrath. His pattern is continuous and perfect.