Rapture= false teaching

[Scotth1960]

Can you find anywhere in the bible where God FORCES anyone to become a Christian? Did not God give us all a free will? Did not Jesus warn that one would be taken and one left? Did He not show in both Daniel and Revelation that the day will come when the Beast Antichrist will OVERCOME the saints? When someone is forced to watch as their child loses their head, or the child is forced to see their parents lose their head, is that not a "nightmare?"

I have one verse for you:

1 Thessalonians 5:20
Despise not prophesyings.

But perhaps you need more:

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets..... thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

It is the will of God and the plan of God that every body of believers (local churches) have the ministry of the prophet just as much as the ministry of the teacher and pastor.

However, most of the church in the US chose to BYPASS Acts 1 and 2, and so do things their OWN way. No wonder the church is in such a mess today.

The bible (and proper) response to a prophecy is to LISTEN and then to judge by the written word of God. So if you think that is not from God, then prove it is wrong by the word of God.

Coop

Dear Coop, What is the correct definition of the church? What is your definition? Should we assume they are the same thing? How many sacraments (holy mysteries) are there in the church? How is the church structured? What is its government? What apostle are you succeeded from, or are you in fellowship with a bishop who is succeeded from an apostle?
As it is now, I am an orphan. I've just learned truth, I haven't yet fulfilled it. I know where a true church is, I just have been having difficulty walking there. Circumstances must change and I must wait for better weather. It is too difficult to go out in cold weather in winter. In the spring I hope to get back to church. When the weather makes it easier for me to walk to church. I've been to church a few times. Every time I am there I learn more about the Bible than I get from reading on my own.

 

[lecoop]

Can you find anywhere in the bible where God FORCES anyone to become a Christian? Did not God give us all a free will? Did not Jesus warn that one would be taken and one left? Did He not show in both Daniel and Revelation that the day will come when the Beast Antichrist will OVERCOME the saints? When someone is forced to watch as their child loses their head, or the child is forced to see their parents lose their head, is that not a "nightmare?"

I have one verse for you:

1 Thessalonians 5:20
Despise not prophesyings.

But perhaps you need more:

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets..... thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

It is the will of God and the plan of God that every body of believers (local churches) have the ministry of the prophet just as much as the ministry of the teacher and pastor.

However, most of the church in the US chose to BYPASS Acts 1 and 2, and so do things their OWN way. No wonder the church is in such a mess today.

The bible (and proper) response to a prophecy is to LISTEN and then to judge by the written word of God. So if you think that is not from God, then prove it is wrong by the word of God.

Coop

Dear Coop, What is the correct definition of the church? What is your definition? Should we assume they are the same thing? How many sacraments (holy mysteries) are there in the church? How is the church structured? What is its government? What apostle are you succeeded from, or are you in fellowship with a bishop who is succeeded from an apostle?
As it is now, I am an orphan. I've just learned truth, I haven't yet fulfilled it. I know where a true church is, I just have been having difficulty walking there. Circumstances must change and I must wait for better weather. It is too difficult to go out in cold weather in winter. In the spring I hope to get back to church. When the weather makes it easier for me to walk to church. I've been to church a few times. Every time I am there I learn more about the Bible than I get from reading on my own.

Scott,

You have asked good questions. The church universal is all believers together, that make up the body of Christ on earth. But it is the will of the Father we each member of the body of Christ join themselves when possible, with a local body of believers. Usually, here in the US, we have choices. Only once in my life did God tell me to leave one local church and join another. I had never done that before, unless I moved to a different location. It was difficult, but I did it. I can assure you, God knows exactly where you are, and will work with you where you are. I agree, it is not good weather to walk. I will give you a little advice: find a church that believes in Acts 2:4. The true church, that follows the leading of the Spirit, will have the gifts of the spirit in operation. (1 Cor. 12) And you will see and here 1 Cor. 14 in practice. Unless I had no other choice, I would NEVER make my home church a church where the gifts of the spirit are not flowing. I may NEED one of those gifts!! In fact, in the past I HAVE, and so has my wife. If you have questions, send me a personal message.

Most of all, DON'T give up! God is ALWAYS with you, no matter what circumstances look like! And you can always go here to watch one of the best preachers in the land: Moore Life Ministries, Branson, MO

You can (unless he has changed it) watch every Sunday's message online. For some of the best audio sermons in the world, look up Dave Roberson Ministries and Gary Carpenter Ministries - Serving the spiritual needs of God's people.

You will find everything there is FREE!!

Coop

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott,

You have asked good questions. The church universal is all believers together, that make up the body of Christ on earth. But it is the will of the Father we each member of the body of Christ join themselves when possible, with a local body of believers. Usually, here in the US, we have choices. Only once in my life did God tell me to leave one local church and join another. I had never done that before, unless I moved to a different location. It was difficult, but I did it. I can assure you, God knows exactly where you are, and will work with you where you are. I agree, it is not good weather to walk. I will give you a little advice: find a church that believes in Acts 2:4. The true church, that follows the leading of the Spirit, will have the gifts of the spirit in operation. (1 Cor. 12) And you will see and here 1 Cor. 14 in practice. Unless I had no other choice, I would NEVER make my home church a church where the gifts of the spirit are not flowing. I may NEED one of those gifts!! In fact, in the past I HAVE, and so has my wife. If you have questions, send me a personal message.

Most of all, DON'T give up! God is ALWAYS with you, no matter what circumstances look like! And you can always go here to watch one of the best preachers in the land: Moore Life Ministries, Branson, MO

You can (unless he has changed it) watch every Sunday's message online. For some of the best audio sermons in the world, look up Dave Roberson Ministries and Gary Carpenter Ministries - Serving the spiritual needs of God's people.

You will find everything there is FREE!!

Coop

Coop, Our definitions of church differ a lot. Is it, a real church, one of 30,000 different Protestant sects? Is it Roman Catholicism? Is it the Armenian Apostolic church, which still rejects the holy council of Chalcedon? No. It is the one holy catholic and apostolic church. Which church rejects the Filioque? Rome still accepts it and promotes it. Only Old Catholicism and a few Uniates still in communion with Rome reject it. But then they are in communion with the FILIOQUE ERROR, and that will not do; FILIQOUE IS ANATHEMA. Take care.
I recommend the folliowing books to you:
James Early. (2009). From Baptist to Byzantium: How a Baptist Missionary Traveled Halfway Around the World To FInd the Ancient Orthodox Faith. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Pres.
Peter E. Gillquist. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. Revised Edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
God bless you. These books are avallable on GOOGLE at Amazon.com. If you can't afford these books, you can possibly get them on ILL (Interlibrary Loan) from a local public or private college library at minimal cost to you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[lecoop]

Scott,

You have asked good questions. The church universal is all believers together, that make up the body of Christ on earth. But it is the will of the Father we each member of the body of Christ join themselves when possible, with a local body of believers. Usually, here in the US, we have choices. Only once in my life did God tell me to leave one local church and join another. I had never done that before, unless I moved to a different location. It was difficult, but I did it. I can assure you, God knows exactly where you are, and will work with you where you are. I agree, it is not good weather to walk. I will give you a little advice: find a church that believes in Acts 2:4. The true church, that follows the leading of the Spirit, will have the gifts of the spirit in operation. (1 Cor. 12) And you will see and here 1 Cor. 14 in practice. Unless I had no other choice, I would NEVER make my home church a church where the gifts of the spirit are not flowing. I may NEED one of those gifts!! In fact, in the past I HAVE, and so has my wife. If you have questions, send me a personal message.

Most of all, DON'T give up! God is ALWAYS with you, no matter what circumstances look like! And you can always go here to watch one of the best preachers in the land: Moore Life Ministries, Branson, MO

You can (unless he has changed it) watch every Sunday's message online. For some of the best audio sermons in the world, look up Dave Roberson Ministries and Gary Carpenter Ministries - Serving the spiritual needs of God's people.

You will find everything there is FREE!!

Coop

Coop, Our definitions of church differ a lot. Is it, a real church, one of 30,000 different Protestant sects? Is it Roman Catholicism? Is it the Armenian Apostolic church, which still rejects the holy council of Chalcedon? No. It is the one holy catholic and apostolic church. Which church rejects the Filioque? Rome still accepts it and promotes it. Only Old Catholicism and a few Uniates still in communion with Rome reject it. But then they are in communion with the FILIOQUE ERROR, and that will not do; FILIQOUE IS ANATHEMA. Take care.
I recommend the folliowing books to you:
James Early. (2009). From Baptist to Byzantium: How a Baptist Missionary Traveled Halfway Around the World To FInd the Ancient Orthodox Faith. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Pres.
Peter E. Gillquist. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. Revised Edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
God bless you. These books are avallable on GOOGLE at Amazon.com. If you can't afford these books, you can possibly get them on ILL (Interlibrary Loan) from a local public or private college library at minimal cost to you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Scott, you are sadly mistaken, my friend. There WAS no Orthodox church in Acts 1 and 2. But, don't take my word for it; let's take God's word:

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect...

If anyone wants a formal name of THE CHURCH, here is one from the heart of God. But Scott, the truth is, anytime believers get together, Jesus is there in their midst, and one could call it "church." And another truth is, a REAL church, which God is pleased with, IS GOING TO HAVE THE FLOW OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and you will see the GIFTS of the Spirit in operation. If you do not see these things, they that local body is DEAD.

Let me give you an example. My wife had been having the same problem as the woman in the bible with the issue of blood. The doctor wanted to remove her female parts - but she did not. We were believing God. But one day in church, while a healing line* was going on, I said to the Lord, "Lord, you know we are standing in faith for her healing, but if she needs help, just have the pastor call out her problem." Scott, in one split second, the pastor turned his back to the healing line, and listened for a second, and said, "There is someone here with hemorrhaging, and you need to be in this line!

What happened was, the Pastor operated with the gift of "word of knowledge" as seen in 1 Cor. 12. He got a short word, that someone was having hemorrhaging. Then, when he prayed for her, the gift of miracles was in operation, for the next day, the bleeding had stopped! Hallelujah!!

Scott, the will of the Father is, these gifts of the spirit (and the flow of the spirit) be in operation in ALL the local bodies around the world. But you see, most churches wish to BYPASS Acts 1 and 2, and that is where the POWER of the Holy Spirit comes from. So most churches never see the power of the Holy Spirit in demonstration.

So the truth is, it really does not matter what the name on the door says; what REALLY counts is, does the Holy Spirit move, and is God the Father pleased?

*If you don't see physical healings as a regular thing in your church, it is DEAD. RUN from there and find a LIVE church! It is written that Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil. And again it is written of these things that he BEGAN to do. God expects the church of today to be exactly like the church in Acts. So again, if your church is not like the church in Acts, then find a different church.

As for the Holy Spirit: does he proceed from the Father, or from the Son, or from both?

Let me ask it another way: YOUR spirit: does it come from your body or from your soul or both?

The truth is, NEITHER IS TRUE. They are ONE being; Spirit, soul and Body. And God is ONE BEING. No part proceeds from either or both of the other: they are ONE, just as My spirit, soul and body are ONE. We are created in His image and after His likeness. The holy Spirit is GOD, just like my spirit is ME. Jesus is God just like my body is ME. And God the Father is God, just like my soul is ME.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Scott,

You have asked good questions. The church universal is all believers together, that make up the body of Christ on earth. But it is the will of the Father we each member of the body of Christ join themselves when possible, with a local body of believers. Usually, here in the US, we have choices. Only once in my life did God tell me to leave one local church and join another. I had never done that before, unless I moved to a different location. It was difficult, but I did it. I can assure you, God knows exactly where you are, and will work with you where you are. I agree, it is not good weather to walk. I will give you a little advice: find a church that believes in Acts 2:4. The true church, that follows the leading of the Spirit, will have the gifts of the spirit in operation. (1 Cor. 12) And you will see and here 1 Cor. 14 in practice. Unless I had no other choice, I would NEVER make my home church a church where the gifts of the spirit are not flowing. I may NEED one of those gifts!! In fact, in the past I HAVE, and so has my wife. If you have questions, send me a personal message.

Most of all, DON'T give up! God is ALWAYS with you, no matter what circumstances look like! And you can always go here to watch one of the best preachers in the land: Moore Life Ministries, Branson, MO

You can (unless he has changed it) watch every Sunday's message online. For some of the best audio sermons in the world, look up Dave Roberson Ministries and Gary Carpenter Ministries - Serving the spiritual needs of God's people.

You will find everything there is FREE!!

Coop

Coop, Our definitions of church differ a lot. Is it, a real church, one of 30,000 different Protestant sects? Is it Roman Catholicism? Is it the Armenian Apostolic church, which still rejects the holy council of Chalcedon? No. It is the one holy catholic and apostolic church. Which church rejects the Filioque? Rome still accepts it and promotes it. Only Old Catholicism and a few Uniates still in communion with Rome reject it. But then they are in communion with the FILIOQUE ERROR, and that will not do; FILIQOUE IS ANATHEMA. Take care.
I recommend the folliowing books to you:
James Early. (2009). From Baptist to Byzantium: How a Baptist Missionary Traveled Halfway Around the World To FInd the Ancient Orthodox Faith. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Pres.
Peter E. Gillquist. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. Revised Edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
God bless you. These books are avallable on GOOGLE at Amazon.com. If you can't afford these books, you can possibly get them on ILL (Interlibrary Loan) from a local public or private college library at minimal cost to you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Scott, I want to be sure and be perfectly clear: the bible teaches us that the moment we are born again, or born of the spirit, we are baptized into the body of Christ. (I am not talking about water here). So every born again believer in Christ is a part of the Body of Christ on earth, and so a part of the church if Jesus Christ universal - meaning around the world and in heaven. And a born again believer can and will get into heaven without EVER attending a local church. Church is not what saves us, it is Jesus Christ that saves us. But God DOES tell us not to forsake the gathering together of the saints. So God is commanding us that we should be a part of a local body of believers. But I would not just join any local body. In some the Holy Spirit moves, and in some, He is not welcome. For those I would RUN. They may well be very good at getting people born again - but that is not all there is. I can assure you, the church I grew up in, the Wesleyan Methodist, DENIES the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is VERY silly, for it is easily found in the bible. And I can further assure you, God wishes that ALL born again believers receive this mighty baptism.

Coop

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott, I want to be sure and be perfectly clear: the bible teaches us that the moment we are born again, or born of the spirit, we are baptized into the body of Christ. (I am not talking about water here). So every born again believer in Christ is a part of the Body of Christ on earth, and so a part of the church if Jesus Christ universal - meaning around the world and in heaven. And a born again believer can and will get into heaven without EVER attending a local church. Church is not what saves us, it is Jesus Christ that saves us. But God DOES tell us not to forsake the gathering together of the saints. So God is commanding us that we should be a part of a local body of believers. But I would not just join any local body. In some the Holy Spirit moves, and in some, He is not welcome. For those I would RUN. They may well be very good at getting people born again - but that is not all there is. I can assure you, the church I grew up in, the Wesleyan Methodist, DENIES the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is VERY silly, for it is easily found in the bible. And I can further assure you, God wishes that ALL born again believers receive this mighty baptism.

Coop[

Some people would question whether a Christian is born again by an emotional conversion experience all on one's own, with no one to minister a sacrament, or whether one is born again by the Holy Spirit and by water in the sacrament of baptism into the Church. One is baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Mat. 28:19) in the Church. One does not bring oneself to Jesus Christ by some emotional revivalistic altar call experience. Where does Scripture say coming forward in some congregation to receive Christ, without baptism and repentance, is being born again? In any case, we must repent first. Then be baptized. ASAP.

 

[lecoop]

Scott, I want to be sure and be perfectly clear: the bible teaches us that the moment we are born again, or born of the spirit, we are baptized into the body of Christ. (I am not talking about water here). So every born again believer in Christ is a part of the Body of Christ on earth, and so a part of the church if Jesus Christ universal - meaning around the world and in heaven. And a born again believer can and will get into heaven without EVER attending a local church. Church is not what saves us, it is Jesus Christ that saves us. But God DOES tell us not to forsake the gathering together of the saints. So God is commanding us that we should be a part of a local body of believers. But I would not just join any local body. In some the Holy Spirit moves, and in some, He is not welcome. For those I would RUN. They may well be very good at getting people born again - but that is not all there is. I can assure you, the church I grew up in, the Wesleyan Methodist, DENIES the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is VERY silly, for it is easily found in the bible. And I can further assure you, God wishes that ALL born again believers receive this mighty baptism.

Coop[

Some people would question whether a Christian is born again by an emotional conversion experience all on one's own, with no one to minister a sacrament, or whether one is born again by the Holy Spirit and by water in the sacrament of baptism into the Church. One is baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Mat. 28:19) in the Church. One does not bring oneself to Jesus Christ by some emotional revivalistic altar call experience. Where does Scripture say coming forward in some congregation to receive Christ, without baptism and repentance, is being born again? In any case, we must repent first. Then be baptized. ASAP.

All we must do is see what God says about it. What He says is truth, and everything else false. Are emotions involved? Sometimes they are, but there are no verses anywhere telling us, for example, that one must cry and shed tears to be born again. Some do, but some don't.

Probably millions have been born again with the verse in Romans 10: if we believe in our heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, and if we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus, we will be saved.

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

According to this verse, this could be done with an individual all alone, just him or her and God! It could be done in front of thousands of people. They could get emotional or not. It could be done in a split second! However, this is certainly not the only "formula." God did not make it difficult!

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It is not difficult to become born again! If one hears the word of God or reads it, it is written that faith comes. If there is faith and a willing heart, that is all it takes to be born again. What part does repentance play in this? it is interesting that the gospels speaks much of repentance, but Paul did not mention it in reference to salvation but a very few times. I understand repentance as like an "about-face." Like changing one's direction. It is difficult for anyone to be saved that does not at first believe that they MUST be saved, or are in need of salvation! Do I understand correctly that most Catholic people have no understanding of the fall of man, and the sin and sin nature of Adam makes all of us disqualified for heaven?

I guess you understand that NO descendant of Adam is qualified for heaven? That is the purpose of being born again: we are pulled from the lineage of Adam, and recreated in our spirit as children of God. But truthfully, I have never talked with a Catholic that understood this. ONLY people with a born again spirit will EVER get into heaven.

Coop

 

[VW]

Scott, I want to be sure and be perfectly clear: the bible teaches us that the moment we are born again, or born of the spirit, we are baptized into the body of Christ. (I am not talking about water here). So every born again believer in Christ is a part of the Body of Christ on earth, and so a part of the church if Jesus Christ universal - meaning around the world and in heaven. And a born again believer can and will get into heaven without EVER attending a local church. Church is not what saves us, it is Jesus Christ that saves us. But God DOES tell us not to forsake the gathering together of the saints. So God is commanding us that we should be a part of a local body of believers. But I would not just join any local body. In some the Holy Spirit moves, and in some, He is not welcome. For those I would RUN. They may well be very good at getting people born again - but that is not all there is. I can assure you, the church I grew up in, the Wesleyan Methodist, DENIES the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is VERY silly, for it is easily found in the bible. And I can further assure you, God wishes that ALL born again believers receive this mighty baptism.

Coop[

Some people would question whether a Christian is born again by an emotional conversion experience all on one's own, with no one to minister a sacrament, or whether one is born again by the Holy Spirit and by water in the sacrament of baptism into the Church. One is baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Mat. 28:19) in the Church. One does not bring oneself to Jesus Christ by some emotional revivalistic altar call experience. Where does Scripture say coming forward in some congregation to receive Christ, without baptism and repentance, is being born again? In any case, we must repent first. Then be baptized. ASAP.

The problem with this view is that all of a sudden, the church is the arbiter of salvation, deciding who can and cannot be saved.

Not once is it stated in scripture that one must be water baptized in order to be saved. Nor is it stated in scripture that one must belong to a local church to be saved. What is emphatically stated by Paul is that if one has the Holy Spirit, then they are a child of God, and if they have not the Spirit, then they are none of His.

Grace has been misconstrued over the centuries, to be something of belief and tradition. Grace is God coming to live in us. We are saved by grace, and that through faith. In Acts we see the argument about whether the Gentiles could be accepted into the church, into the body of Christ. And the convincing argument for the Gentiles? That they received the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit as the Jewish believers. And if God has approved them, who can deny them?

Water baptism is a show, an outward show of what has happened in the inner man, where salvation actually occurs. According to the new covenant, God writes His laws on the believers heart and mind, and the believer comes to know Him, all believers, from the least to the greatest. This only happens by the work of the Holy Spirit. (If the truth be known, Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit, just as He said, "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

The church has taken a role which was never hers in the first place. I know about the verse proclaiming the church being the pillar of the truth, but she is this only if the Holy Spirit is her truth, only if the Spirit has formed her and shaped her and added to her as He sees fit. And this alone shows that the end is near, as much as any other sign in the world.

In Christ,

 

[lecoop]

The problem with this view is that all of a sudden, the church is the arbiter of salvation, deciding who can and cannot be saved.

Not once is it stated in scripture that one must be water baptized in order to be saved. Nor is it stated in scripture that one must belong to a local church to be saved. What is emphatically stated by Paul is that if one has the Holy Spirit, then they are a child of God, and if they have not the Spirit, then they are none of His.

Grace has been misconstrued over the centuries, to be something of belief and tradition. Grace is God coming to live in us. We are saved by grace, and that through faith. In Acts we see the argument about whether the Gentiles could be accepted into the church, into the body of Christ. And the convincing argument for the Gentiles? That they received the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit as the Jewish believers. And if God has approved them, who can deny them?

Water baptism is a show, an outward show of what has happened in the inner man, where salvation actually occurs. According to the new covenant, God writes His laws on the believers heart and mind, and the believer comes to know Him, all believers, from the least to the greatest. This only happens by the work of the Holy Spirit. (If the truth be known, Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit, just as He said, "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

The church has taken a role which was never hers in the first place. I know about the verse proclaiming the church being the pillar of the truth, but she is this only if the Holy Spirit is her truth, only if the Spirit has formed her and shaped her and added to her as He sees fit. And this alone shows that the end is near, as much as any other sign in the world.

In Christ,

Well said, VW!

Coop

 

[Scotth1960]

The world is being prepared for the greatest deception in the history of man. The Antichrist is satan himself and he is coming to decieve. He is the son of perdition, meaning he is the only one that has been pre-judged to burn in hell before judgment day, not Judas . He wants to decieve as many as possible before he goes down. Remember, he was the most beautiful angel God had created. He will preform signs and lying wonders(miracles) decieving many. Search out this Truth for yourself, search diligently. Pastor Joe Schimmel from good fight ministries touches on the subject briefly in this video:
YouTube - Paster Joe Schimmel on New Age Christ


Peace unto you in Jesus Christ​

Friends, Consider please the following website. Take care. http:// refutecamping.com/topics/may_21_2011.php

Scott Harrington Erie PA

 

[Red33]

The problem with this view is that all of a sudden, the church is the arbiter of salvation, deciding who can and cannot be saved.

Not once is it stated in scripture that one must be water baptized in order to be saved. Nor is it stated in scripture that one must belong to a local church to be saved. What is emphatically stated by Paul is that if one has the Holy Spirit, then they are a child of God, and if they have not the Spirit, then they are none of His.

Grace has been misconstrued over the centuries, to be something of belief and tradition. Grace is God coming to live in us. We are saved by grace, and that through faith. In Acts we see the argument about whether the Gentiles could be accepted into the church, into the body of Christ. And the convincing argument for the Gentiles? That they received the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit as the Jewish believers. And if God has approved them, who can deny them?

Water baptism is a show, an outward show of what has happened in the inner man, where salvation actually occurs. According to the new covenant, God writes His laws on the believers heart and mind, and the believer comes to know Him, all believers, from the least to the greatest. This only happens by the work of the Holy Spirit. (If the truth be known, Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit, just as He said, "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

The church has taken a role which was never hers in the first place. I know about the verse proclaiming the church being the pillar of the truth, but she is this only if the Holy Spirit is her truth, only if the Spirit has formed her and shaped her and added to her as He sees fit. And this alone shows that the end is near, as much as any other sign in the world.

In Christ,

VW,

What is the church suppose to be doing according to the Spirit and the truth we have in the scriptures?

 

[VW]

VW,

What is the church suppose to be doing according to the Spirit and the truth we have in the scriptures?

Loving one another even as Jesus has loved us.

In truth, every single office of the church, and every member, is placed there by the Spirit, and empowered by the same Spirit in their place, their office. And the fruit of the Spirit, (singular,) is love. Indeed, God is love. When we love one another, just as Jesus has loved us, the world knows that we are His disciples. And in this love, is the unity of the Spirit.

Some would have us have unity of belief, unity of doctrine, unity of structure. But unity is of God, and He makes us one by His Spirit, even as Jesus and the Father are one. It is a unity of the Spirit.

I know you don't like what I say, and you have attacked me and my words many times. I expect that this is not over. My grief about this is the appearance given to others. My heart breaks over and over when I see the stance you take with me.

What is even more saddening to me is that I have become much less willing to share these words, because of the spirit of discord you present so often.

May God forgive us.

 

[endofallfears]

A dispensational error has crept into end-times theology. The 7 year period is identified as both the tribulation and the wrath of God upon the earth, and then scripture is applied to these definitions to support a pre-trib rapture.

The 7 year period is the 7 year period, the tribulation and the Wrath of God are separate events which occur within the 7 year period.

The 7 year period begins with the arrival of Antichrist as a man of great influence and peace. Halfway through the 7 year period the Antichrist initiates the Tribulation.

Toward the end of the 7 year period Jesus comes in the clouds, raptures His church, ending the Tribulation.

We meet the Lord in the air, we continue upward to heaven while Christ continues downward to Earth where he will blow the Last Trump (different from the 7 trumpets) to initiate the Wrath of God upon the Earth.

This is how the church suffers through the Tribulation, but not suffer under the Wrath of God.

 

[Red33]

Loving one another even as Jesus has loved us.

In truth, every single office of the church, and every member, is placed there by the Spirit, and empowered by the same Spirit in their place, their office. And the fruit of the Spirit, (singular,) is love. Indeed, God is love. When we love one another, just as Jesus has loved us, the world knows that we are His disciples. And in this love, is the unity of the Spirit.

Some would have us have unity of belief, unity of doctrine, unity of structure. But unity is of God, and He makes us one by His Spirit, even as Jesus and the Father are one. It is a unity of the Spirit.

I know you don't like what I say, and you have attacked me and my words many times. I expect that this is not over. My grief about this is the appearance given to others. My heart breaks over and over when I see the stance you take with me.

What is even more saddening to me is that I have become much less willing to share these words, because of the spirit of discord you present so often.

May God forgive us.

As we love and serve one another, what are the works that the church and body of Christ has been ordained to do on earth (Eph 2:10, Mk 3:14)? What is our responsibility with the gospel and the word that we have been given?

2Cor 4:1-6

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Mt 4:14-16

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Rom 10:13-15

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[lecoop]

A dispensational error has crept into end-times theology. The 7 year period is identified as both the tribulation and the wrath of God upon the earth, and then scripture is applied to these definitions to support a pre-trib rapture.

The 7 year period is the 7 year period, the tribulation and the Wrath of God are separate events which occur within the 7 year period.

The 7 year period begins with the arrival of Antichrist as a man of great influence and peace. Halfway through the 7 year period the Antichrist initiates the Tribulation.

Toward the end of the 7 year period Jesus comes in the clouds, raptures His church, ending the Tribulation.

We meet the Lord in the air, we continue upward to heaven while Christ continues downward to Earth where he will blow the Last Trump (different from the 7 trumpets) to initiate the Wrath of God upon the Earth.

This is how the church suffers through the Tribulation, but not suffer under the Wrath of God.

Readers, THIS POST by endofallfears is dispensational ERROR.

Yes, there is a 7 year period, and it is clearly marked in Revelation by the sevens: it begins with the 7th seal (the Day of the Lord begins at the same time) the exact midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet, and it ends at the 7th vial (the Day of the Lord continues on). The truth is, the wrath of God is being poured out in the vials, while at the same time, the wrath of Satan is causing days of great tribulation. They are concurrent. That is why it is written that some of the vials are poured out on those having the mark, and on the seat of the Beast. It is the vials of God's wrath that "shorten" those days of GT.

But Jesus comes to rapture the church before ANY of the 70th week. That is why John was shown the raptured church in heaven, BEFORE the 70th week begins. And Paul wrote clearly in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes before the day of the Lord. That Day is a day of wrath, and Paul tells us we have NO APPOINTMENT with wrath, so while those in darkness get the sudden destruction, those in the light get raptured, and get to live together with HIM!

Coop

 

[VW]

As we love and serve one another, what are the works that the church and body of Christ has been ordained to do on earth (Eph 2:10, Mk 3:14)? What is our responsibility with the gospel and the word that we have been given?

2Cor 4:1-6

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Mt 4:14-16

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Rom 10:13-15

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

It seems that the Spirit will not let me answer you at this time. Maybe this will change in the future.

In His love,
vic

 

[zone]

Readers, THIS POST by endofallfears is dispensational ERROR.

Yes, there is a 7 year period, and it is clearly marked in Revelation by the sevens: it begins with the 7th seal (the Day of the Lord begins at the same time) the exact midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet, and it ends at the 7th vial (the Day of the Lord continues on). The truth is, the wrath of God is being poured out in the vials, while at the same time, the wrath of Satan is causing days of great tribulation. They are concurrent. That is why it is written that some of the vials are poured out on those having the mark, and on the seat of the Beast. It is the vials of God's wrath that "shorten" those days of GT.

But Jesus comes to rapture the church before ANY of the 70th week. That is why John was shown the raptured church in heaven, BEFORE the 70th week begins. And Paul wrote clearly in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes before the day of the Lord. That Day is a day of wrath, and Paul tells us we have NO APPOINTMENT with wrath, so while those in darkness get the sudden destruction, those in the light get raptured, and get to live together with HIM!

Coop

you would do well to learn from endofallfears, coop

 

[lecoop]

you would do well to learn from endofallfears, coop

Zone, I am convinced you would argue with the Holy Spirit on end time doctrine. In fact, you do.

Coop

 

[Red33]

It seems that the Spirit will not let me answer you at this time. Maybe this will change in the future.

In His love,
vic

Whether the Spirit allows you to answer at this time or not, these scriptures speak for themselves because they are inspired and come from the mouth of God's servant. They are plain and simple, yet instructive and definitive with the grace that is needed to fulfill them by faith and in the love of God.

 

[Red33]

Readers, THIS POST by endofallfears is dispensational ERROR.

Yes, there is a 7 year period, and it is clearly marked in Revelation by the sevens: it begins with the 7th seal (the Day of the Lord begins at the same time) the exact midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet, and it ends at the 7th vial (the Day of the Lord continues on). The truth is, the wrath of God is being poured out in the vials, while at the same time, the wrath of Satan is causing days of great tribulation. They are concurrent. That is why it is written that some of the vials are poured out on those having the mark, and on the seat of the Beast. It is the vials of God's wrath that "shorten" those days of GT.

But Jesus comes to rapture the church before ANY of the 70th week. That is why John was shown the raptured church in heaven, BEFORE the 70th week begins. And Paul wrote clearly in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes before the day of the Lord. That Day is a day of wrath, and Paul tells us we have NO APPOINTMENT with wrath, so while those in darkness get the sudden destruction, those in the light get raptured, and get to live together with HIM!

Coop

Keep it up Coop!