He will retard his own spiritual growth and service to God. And post #40 provides the solution.
The Gospel continues to be misunderstood
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Only Jesus saves, only He can baptize us in the Holy Spirit. Water baptism pre dates Christ in Judaism, it was used to convert gentiles to Jews long before Christ. It was a comfortable habit for them to do this in conversions to Christianity, but it is NOT necessary for Salvation. Water does not save.The problem with this view is that more than one passage established that water baptism seems to be necessary to be saved. Other than Acts 2, the passage that Christians from denominations that hold that view, such as the baptist churches as well as Church of Christ, is the version of the Great commission found in Mark. It explicitly stated that you need to believe AND be baptized to be saved.
I am aware that people have tried to overcome that difficulty by changing what Mark really meant to write, by rephrasing it as you have attempted, that those who believe in Christ SHOULD then be baptized AFTER they are saved.
But that, to a normal reader, is distorting what Mark actually wrote.
And interestingly you quoted Acts 10, when there was a shift after Stephen was stoned, but that is another topic that I will not bring up for now.
Not addressed to me but as per usual I will still answer, whatcha gonna do about it?
Nothing will happen to him. HOWEVER: If you have a professing Christian who refuses to get baptized, you can question his conversion, unless there is a good reason for him avoiding water baptism.
I have always said: This is the SELF INFLICTED wound of Christianity, we keep post-poning baptism and we keep debating it instead of just doing it the Bible way, the SECOND someone confesses Jesus as Lord and puts his faith in Jesus, DUNK EM.
Problem solved, debate ended.
There is no rule that says you can only reply on specific threads, so you certainly can.
If you have that view on water baptism, you are actually putting water baptism in a category of its own, above other practices like tithing/giving money to the church, serving in the church, evangelizing to others and so on and so forth.
Is that what you are doing? Why is water baptism in a special category that can make you doubt others' salvation, when we don't do that for others?
True, but we have others in this thread who have this view that, if a Christian don't get water baptized, there are reasons to doubt whether he is really saved.
This is the usual circular argument I have encountered regarding faith and works.
Is it similar as saying if you don't give money to the church or to God, you will also retard your "own spiritual growth and service to God"?
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GtrPkr
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Could there possibly be 2 types of repentance? We first seek God for forgiveness of what we know to be sinful as sinners..... Then, once saved, we must rely on faith for forgiveness of sins that we are unaware of. To "first" repent is to assume that we know the full depth of sin when we are still sinners.
If you understand Romans 5:12-19, it is not our individual sins that caused our separation from God. It is the sin nature we inherited from Adam.
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GtrPkr
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So we don't need to remember all our individual sins in order to be saved.
We do need to repent (change our mind) from the belief that we can work our way to salvation, cease from our work, and accept Jesus's finished work at the cross.
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GtrPkr
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We still agree..... But, you still haven't answered my question...
So there are no 2 types of repentance. The only type of repentance for salvation is to repent from the belief that we can work our way to salvation, cease from our work, and accept Jesus's finished work at the cross.
Once you are justified by the blood of Jesus, you are not supposed to have any consciousness of sins. (Hebrews 10:2)
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GtrPkr
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Woah!!! So, to repent is to be unconscious of sin.... COOL!!!! It's hooligan's holiday baby! Hallelujah!
Woah!!! So, to repent is to be unconscious of sin.... COOL!!!! It's hooligan's holiday baby! Hallelujah!
Hebrews chapter 10 is a good reminder of why you should repent for saying what you have just said.
By responding the way you did, you are actually dishonoring the final sacrifice that Jesus made for our sins. You are implying that his sacrifice was not a perfect offering. Even the Holy Spirit quoted in verse 15 is not on your side.
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For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
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GtrPkr
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Before I answer that lol.... Please define the term "conscious of sin"
Strange when you were who ask me that question in the first place.
Why don't you define how you understand that term, and explain accordingly?
For me, I will use the example from Abraham, where he lied to Pharaoh about his wife not being his wife, instead he said sister, twice, and yet was not conscious of it at both times.
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GtrPkr
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What makes you think Abraham wasn't consciously aware of his deception?Strange when you were who ask me that question in the first place.
Why don't you define how you understand that term, and explain accordingly?
For me, I will use the example from Abraham, where he lied to Pharaoh about his wife not being his wife, instead he said sister, twice, and yet was not conscious of it at both times.
It was not written in the word that he was.
Anyway it doesn’t matter since I have answered your question and ask you the same question in return.
Mid Acts (hyper) believe the waters of baptism is no longer part of church doctrine today so that Matthew 28 or the GC is to the Jews only. The promise of the Holy Spirit is to empower the early believers as stated in Acts 1:8 and worldwide missions will begin first at Jerusalem to all nations, Acts 2 begins the empowerment and Acts 9 or MAD is somewhat late but we need to further take it into the account that this was the continuity of what Christ preach of his gospel. Gospel simply means good news and the kingdom gospel is the good news that a believer can be a part of the kingdom of God or Christ kingdom in heaven and in the future millennial kingdom of Christ on the earth. The only way to be a part of kingdom is through the gospel of Christ, Paul talk about this as the Gospel of the Grace of God, his gospel and my gospel as well. Noted was that Christ foretold his DBR though at that time his disciples did not accept this reality that soon he (Christ) would have to fulfill the prophecy.
While MAD places the Church age or the Grace period in Acts 9, Acts 2 is no different. My view of the Church age is place at the beginning of Christ earthly ministry. In this sense there would be no contradiction on the word of God pertaining to the Church or gospel beginning as MAD would have difficulty explaining Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 even denying GC is of as today over the message and the geographical scope.
God bless,