Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,587
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I do not mention you by name for a reason. The only reason I even saw what you said is I had to open a post to see who someone was responding to. And I responded in kind.

Either way, You have not changed one bit,

I proved you to be a liar. (I showed three people who believed in salvation by water baptism) And you did not even acknowledge that, You had to continue your slanderous ways.

I told you to leave me on ignore. As usual. You can’t So you get what you deserve.

Either way, You just exposed yourself to the whole room.

Once again, I recommend you put me on ignore..

I have had to ignore her. I don't see how she cannot see her hypocrisy. EVERYTHING she has accused others of, she has dealt out double to the person she addresses. There is no civil debate. If you find yourself on the opposite side of an issue with her it always devolves into accusations and insults.

I honestly do feel bad about it. She is harboring some root of bitterness, or just extreme boredom. I just don't want to be the brunt of that bitterness any longer. Maybe things will change in time.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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ALL of God's Word is given for instruction, correction, etc. and will forever stand true. Keep in mind, it alone will be what everyone will be judged upon. And that certainly includes the words recorded in the Book of Mark.

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Yep, I realized that there will always be Christians who believe that you need to be water baptized to be saved. They have Mark 16:16 to back them up.

If you think the entire Bible is written as instructions to YOU, regardless of Jews, Gentiles or dispensations, there is no way to convince you otherwise.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I have had to ignore her. I don't see how she cannot see her hypocrisy. EVERYTHING she has accused others of, she has dealt out double to the person she addresses. There is no civil debate. If you find yourself on the opposite side of an issue with her it always devolves into accusations and insults.

I honestly do feel bad about it. She is harboring some root of bitterness, or just extreme boredom. I just don't want to be the brunt of that bitterness any longer. Maybe things will change in time.
Yep, I have experienced her "bitterness" too. There will always be such people in Internet discussion forums so just ignore them. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Fancy that. Christian doctrine backed up by scripture! Whatever next?
Yet do you ever wonder why so many Christians in this thread alone are so eager to claim that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation in this current time? 😅
 
Sep 6, 2014
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I have had to ignore her. I don't see how she cannot see her hypocrisy. EVERYTHING she has accused others of, she has dealt out double to the person she addresses. There is no civil debate. If you find yourself on the opposite side of an issue with her it always devolves into accusations and insults.

I honestly do feel bad about it. She is harboring some root of bitterness, or just extreme boredom. I just don't want to be the brunt of that bitterness any longer. Maybe things will change in time.
2 Peter 2:1-22
2 Peter 3:17,18

John 15:4-5

Brother PennEd,
May God give you understanding of these things.

:)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Fancy that. Christian doctrine backed up by scripture! Whatever next?
Incidentally will you also follow the rest of mark version of the gc by picking up deadly snakes with your hands as a sign that you believe?

Why not if you follow mark 16 16?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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I honestly appreciate your experience, and believe the openness to truth you described in yourself.

In some ways my experience might be explained by saying I may have been fortunate enough to have had better teachers. And that's NOT saying some kind of a put down. What I'm saying is that in the fragile moment where I was struggling to receive, someone was able to give me the encouragement that I needed, at the time I needed it. That allowed me to continue seeking without feeling "put off" until God was able to get his spirit to me past my failings and theirs.

You may have felt or even BEEN belittled and accused by those around you. And you may have felt/perceived/discerned that they were behaving in an ungodly fashion. And you may well have been right.

Proverbs 11:22 KJV says "As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion." <--This speaks poorly of the behavior of the recipient, but does NOT devalue the gift they have been given.

The people you were with may have been yielding to evil spirits in their behavior and words, but that is NOT to say that the gift they carried within them was any bit evil (or unnecessary).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I learned, that I cant realy trust people, even they state himself christians. I am not support an expieriencetheologie which excuses everything. I lay on rhe word of God.
And there I cant find this pentecostal/ charismatic teaching.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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I have not once used teachings from Azuza street preachers to back what I've said. And I did not receive speaking in tongues because of what happened in 1901.

Until God revealed to Elijah that there was a remnant of 7000 in Isreal, even Elijah(a prophet) thought he was alone.

The fact that Elijah didn't know until that moment does not detract from the calling on Elijah, and it does not detract from the existence of the 7000. Azuza street simply brought to the attention of the USA what God has been doing all along... Answering those who seek him diligently.... just like he did with Cornelius in Acts 10...regardless of whether or not the church (THE REAL CHURCH) thought it should happen.

Again, I didn't receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues because of what they did or taught at Azuza street. I was seeking God myself.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Dear Kelby,
meanwhile so much crossings in the pentecostal/ charismatic teaching has been in the last 118 years that its realy difficult to follow the line back. Also came many sidelines through the charismatic movements. But History showes clear, that this teaching was first in 1901 and not before put in practice.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
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interesting


4 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. I Thess. 1

see the above? the gospel is not just words but also power and the conviction of the Holy Spirit

when the true biblical gospel is preached, God will bless it with the moving of the Holy Spirit among those gathered

this powerless, Holy Spirit-less, conviction-less and sit on the pew and I am saved lie that is preached by some here is not the gospel at all

a one hour gotta break it up at noon for lunch meeting is not what God intended
A passage about the gospel less speaking in tongues...

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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960
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Thank God that Jesus is paying no heed whatsoever to unbelievers and continues to pour out the Holy Spirit
upon all flesh …


The full gospel is preached
People believe and repent and come to faith in Christ Jesus and his salvation
People are water baptized by full immersion
Many have their first healing miracles: the blind gain sight, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the sick are healed,
Church members lay hands on these novice disciples and people are taught to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit
with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues.

People are dramatically converted from their previous sinful worldly lives and become converted pretty well immediately
by the power of God within them …
Alcoholics stop drinking
Those that chew beetlenut (a narcotic berry) stop this habit
Wife bashers become good husbands
Criminals and violent people become good members of their village and start to live righteously
Men put away their machetes and stop revenge attacks on neighbouring villages
Perpetrators of murders and violence against others go and reconcile with their victims and surviving families,
and seek forgiveness for their crimes (offering atonement to those who have suffered by them)
Drug addicts are miraculously cleansed and set free from their addictions (heroin, marihuana, cigarettes, etc)
Converts become disciples and have testimonies to their conversion and praying in tongues when receiving the Holy Spirit
and to the multiple many healings, miracles and blessings in their new life in Jesus.

http://www.revivalcentresofpng.org/
Full or False?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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Remember people. We not only need to be baptized in water, but we have to speak in tongues otherwise, we are not saved.

This is false gospel 101!
God's Word states a spiritual rebirth must take place. Clearly water and spirit baptism (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) play a part in the rebirth. Otherwise, why would the God inspired Word record the need for, and personal experiences of, both?

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 Cor 13:1

John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice what Jesus is saying here, the Spirit is not visible but one will discern its presence by sound.

Acts 2:2-8
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?”

Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Acts 19:1-6
“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

Paul's epistles include the spiritual rebirth concepts as well: (Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
God's Word states a spiritual rebirth must take place. Clearly water and spirit baptism (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) play a part in the rebirth. Otherwise, why would the God inspired Word record the need for, and personal experiences of, both?

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 Cor 13:1

John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice what Jesus is saying here, the Spirit is not visible but one will discern its presence by sound.
Here we have another who has judged me lost because I do not speak in tongues.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
God's Word states a spiritual rebirth must take place. Clearly water and spirit baptism (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) play a part in the rebirth. Otherwise, why would the God inspired Word record the need for, and personal experiences of, both?

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 Cor 13:1

John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice what Jesus is saying here, the Spirit is not visible but one will discern its presence by sound.

Acts 2:2-8
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?”

Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 10:44-48
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Acts 19:1-6
“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

Paul's epistles include the spiritual rebirth concepts as well: (Rom 6:3-5, 1 Cor 1:15-16, 1 Cor 12:13, Gal 3:27, Eph 4:4-5, Col 2:12, Titus 3:5-6, Heb 4:1-2)
The disciples in Acts 19 had believed in the message of John. Johns message was that the Messiah was to come. These disciples had not yet heard that Jesus was the messiah and that Jesus had been crucified and risen from the tomb. Upon hearing this the complete gospel they received the Holy Spirit and were saved. Paul then laid his hands on them that they might be filled with the Holy Spirit like the disciples at Pentecost. They spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Acts 10 gives the reason that these new converts spoke in tongues. Peter says can any forbid water that these should not be baptized which HAVE received the Holy Spirit as well as we. They did not receive the Holy Spirit because of the water baptism they received the Holy Spirit because of their belief which resulted in a change of heart. They gave evidence to their salvation so that others could not deny their conversion.

Important thing to know about water baptism in the early church. Jews could profess Christ and their families would plead with them to recant until they were water baptized. After water baptism they were counted as dead to those who remained in Judaism. Much the same today in that a Jewish convert after water baptism is considered dead to the Jewish faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Incidentally will you also follow the rest of mark version of the gc by picking up deadly snakes with your hands as a sign that you believe?

Why not if you follow mark 16 16?
This comment is referring to God's protection of His children. He would know and intervene on behalf of His children who have accidentally come into contact with snakes, or unknowingly drank something deadly.

Jesus' comment would definitely not be suggesting that believers should pick up snakes or drink something poisonous to prove one's belief. We are to never test/tempt God. (Matt 4:6-7)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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This comment is referring to God's protection of His children. He would know and intervene on behalf of His children who have accidentally come into contact with snakes, or unknowingly drank something deadly.

Jesus' comment would definitely not be suggesting that believers should pick up snakes or drink something poisonous to prove one's belief. We are to never test/tempt God. (Matt 4:6-7)
But can you see that you are now adding your own preconceived views, in interpreting that passage? Let's put it in context

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall

Verse 18 specifically say They shall take up serpents, not if you "accidentally come into contact with snakes".

The Jews, as a race, placed a premium on seeing signs, as we can tell from the 4 Gospels. Without signs, they are unlikely to accept the preaching of the 12 disciples.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Here we have another who has judged me lost because I do not speak in tongues.
I judged no one. I posted the recorded scripture about water and Holy Ghost baptisms.
Your walk is between you and God.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I do not mention you by name for a reason. The only reason I even saw what you said is I had to open a post to see who someone was responding to. And I responded in kind.

Either way, You have not changed one bit,

I proved you to be a liar. (I showed three people who believed in salvation by water baptism) And you did not even acknowledge that, You had to continue your slanderous ways.

I told you to leave me on ignore. As usual. You can’t So you get what you deserve.

Either way, You just exposed yourself to the whole room.

Once again, I recommend you put me on ignore..

funny, but you do not control what I do

no, I have not changed with regards to my opinion on your bullying and twisting what others say

you have not proved anyone here to be a liar. you have a very high opinion of yourself which means you will fall harder, faster and further

you constantly actually judge yourself with your words and don't see what you do

your idea of change would no doubt include a person agreeing with you. not the Bible mind you, but you and your opinions

listen...you should put me on ignore. you snipe at me without using my name here and then act high and self righteous because for once, in a long time, I got back to you on it

you can swagger your way around this forum but you are not fooling anyone

I would be most pleased to ignore you, as I have been doing, but with respect to that, why don't you put some legs to your own advice and ignore me. stop your sniping and referring to me as she or her or whatever other way you want to address me through the back door

you can start by not responding to this post. otherwise, you are as liable to hear from me as anyone else whether or not you say you have me on ignore and 'only happen to see my post' :rolleyes:

what bothers you the most, is that you cannot control certain things and get all your ducks in a row so you resort to snide comments and references.

you and the rest of your cessationist friends badger, bully and basically resort to attacking anyone who is not loling with you on any thread on tongues

so either follow your own advice and just pm to others about she and her or continue to accidentally see my post and have to, just have to say something snide to get your buddies to agree with you

but you cannot control others here or tell them to shut up or put you on ignore. just follow your own advice
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This is a very good video exposing just how utterly dangerous the pentecostal/charismatic movement is today. Aside from the unbiblical hysterical laughter, rolling on the floor, barking like dogs, slain in the spirit, and unintelligible ramblings. Unfortunately, by it's length alone, almost no one is going to watch it. But if you do, start at about the 35 minute mark. This completely exposes how this movement is trying to unify Christians. Unfortunately, this unification is satanic, as it joins all sorts of heretical churches and ultimately recognizes as the POPE as the head of the whole movement.

So those of you that have been deceived into thinking YOUR charismatic church would have nothing to do with catholicism or the vicar of Rome, you better do your homework and leave this movement.
More boggus slander of the body.
Tireless fake false concern for us.

Find a new hobby.
Its like you are going to a church john started and trying to tell his followers that john is of the devil because someone did some abuse somewhere.
Pure agent of satan sir.

My bible says if a child asks for a bread, his father will not put a serpent or a scorpion in his hand.
I am guaranteed satan can not answer my prayer.
You however,are DETERMINED to MAKE something up to disenfranchise the body of Christ.
Nobody that has recieved the promised blessing is going to listen to,or watch,your vomit spew against the Holy Ghost.
Those men you are partnered with HATE CHARISMATICS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THEY ARE DRIVEN BY SPIRITS. DEMON SPIRITS.
ASK YOURSELF WHAT FRUIT ARE YOU PRODUCING IN ATTACKING THE BODY???
You sure aren't going to steal what the Holy Spirit poured out.
And edited videos are the same as lying. So add lying to your resume