Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[7seasrekeyed]

I see what happened. My computer acted up again and posted your post on a post where I was posting to EG.

Got it? lol

Post 1319 I don't know why your post is first. Shouldn't be there at all. Sorry. It's happened before.

Am tired though....these threads are wearing so I've said all I can here and am not repeating myself.

Going to the ladies forum tomorrow. Hopefully.


Night 7....you know I love ya!

oh phew

thought I would have a bad night there for a minute

night yourself and love u too! hugs

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't agree with rolling either as an emotional act. people needing deliverance might roll though and cry out. they are in pain

I attended a church once where a woman would interrupt the meeting every time God was the center of our attention(s)

she would get on the floor and wail and carry on. some people comforted her and said it was God

I certainly never thought it was. all attention was focused on her and God (pardon me here) went out the window and the
meeting was over. this happened several times

she needed help. she has also come from another church where she cause that type of thing but in this church, she found shelter
instead of being told not to do that

I don't know if she thought she was acting in the spirit, or if she could not control her emotions and did whatever came into her mind (cause some people do that and are out of control) or she needed the kind of help that boy in scripture received

I raise an eyebrow whenever attention is taken off God and a person takes the place of what others were receiving from the message or teaching

the Holy Spirit does not draw attention to people. He draws attention to God

I would question that too but where I saw it, I can't deny it was the Lord. I won't say where though. Would just cause another firestorm.

But, this is not my call either. Every prophetic word I've ever received is woman of the Word. I get pulled off to side things only because I "know".

I shouldn't have to defend so am stopping this right now. For me that is.

 

[CS1]

Falling or rolling is not the same as being thrown, if being pulled up in a state where you are dead or paralised and allowed to fall to the ground numerous times. (Although I disagree with that also. The people in the NT got up and did those things imediately. They did not fall over or roll on the ground)

Remember, That is what you were defending earlier.

Thats why you got the response from Pen Ed that you received.

I do not want to be disagreeble but can we say fully what

Here ya go, so we can see IN CONTEXT. Post# 1148

PENNED SAID:
Maybe if you smash us against a wall, punch us in the stomach, or kick us off a stage, like Wigglesworth did to a little baby, we might see things your way!
Of course none of this stuff is Biblical, but why let that little detail get in the way.


STONESOF FIRE SAID:
Well we certainly can see what is "always on your mind".



So tell me how this doesn't equate to a desire for violence? Unless you think it's just a funny joke?

I think that is a far comment I can say I have nort

Here ya go, so we can see IN CONTEXT. Post# 1148

PENNED SAID:
Maybe if you smash us against a wall, punch us in the stomach, or kick us off a stage, like Wigglesworth did to a little baby, we might see things your way!
Of course none of this stuff is Biblical, but why let that little detail get in the way.


STONESOF FIRE SAID:
Well we certainly can see what is "always on your mind".



So tell me how this doesn't equate to a desire for violence? Unless you think it's just a funny joke?

I think PENNED has a far point. If he will agree that it has been said repeatedly the action of some were not a reflection of all. I do not see all here in the same light as a few here who are immature. I can say none of us were alive here when Smith Wigglesworth ministered. I have never read of him hitting a baby. I think that was wrong and he did so out of ignorance. Lester Summerall who was an eyewitness of the ministry of SW, and Smith was an uneducated man. he came up in a time and was used in powerful healings. SW said it was God who did these things but his methods were looked down on. He needs to be shown a better way.

!cor 14 says let all be done in decency and in order. His action would not meet that standard however, God did heal or are you suggesting the devil healed them? I know you are not.

as i minister each Sunday as I believe the word of God says we are to pray one for the other. a sister came to me and made known a physical condition in her abdomen area, I did not punch her in the stomach, nor did I place my hand on her stomach. I called for another sister to lay her hand on her stomach and I laid my hand on her forehead and prayed over her in the name of Lord for healing. and to Give the doctors wisdom in treating this sister. She said the pain was gone. I told her to go to her doctor and still be examined. All glory to God. I do not see anything I did that was not biblical.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would question that too but where I saw it, I can't deny it was the Lord. I won't say where though. Would just cause another firestorm.

But, this is not my call either. Every prophetic word I've ever received is woman of the Word. I get pulled off to side things only because I "know".

I shouldn't have to defend so am stopping this right now. For me that is.

I am at the point where I could not say something was not God unless it had my stamp of approval either

I have come to think some folks just get carried away. doesn't mean they are demonic

no you don't have to defend and no use to do so anyway...we have the entire Bible here being disagreed with by some, not all, people

I think maybe God is separating more and more while we think we are just having a 'discussion'

but who am I ... must my thought at times.

but where do demons show up in the Bible? everywhere the truth is proclaimed it seems

'what have we to do with you?' wasn't a person talking as you know

on the other hand, a person who does not believe the gifts are still in operation will be aghast any old way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not want to be disagreeble but can we say fully what

I think that is a far comment I can say I have nort


I think PENNED has a far point. If he will agree that it has been said repeatedly the action of some were not a reflection of all. I do not see all here in the same light as a few here who are immature. I can say none of us were alive here when Smith Wigglesworth ministered. I have never read of him hitting a baby. I think that was wrong and he did so out of ignorance. Lester Summerall who was an eyewitness of the ministry of SW, and Smith was an uneducated man. he came up in a time and was used in powerful healings. SW said it was God who did these things but his methods were looked down on. He needs to be shown a better way.

!cor 14 says let all be done in decency and in order. His action would not meet that standard however, God did heal or are you suggesting the devil healed them? I know you are not.

as i minister each Sunday as I believe the word of God says we are to pray one for the other. a sister came to me and made known a physical condition in her abdomen area, I did not punch her in the stomach, nor did I place my hand on her stomach. I called for another sister to lay her hand on her stomach and I laid my hand on her forehead and prayed over her in the name of Lord for healing. and to Give the doctors wisdom in treating this sister. She said the pain was gone. I told her to go to her doctor and still be examined. All glory to God. I do not see anything I did that was not biblical.

I do not see that as unbiblical also. And we have witnessed that also even without laying on of hands, which I have no issue with.

Again, I think people miss Penned’s point, Unlike you and 7 and others, who have decried what the person did. One member was sticking up for him and defending him basically saying what he did was ok. That was the issue, and why Penned made the comment, (ie, if it is ok for him to do that is it ok for someone to do that to me?)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

not gonna speak against another here with you eg. told you what I think of that. I wish you would listen

no I didn't read all his posts as I already said

but please do go and quote where he says that, refer to the post and I will say oopsie doopsie uncle in front of the whole class

I'm good that way

I have done it twice now.

How do you expect me to see you as being honest, when you do stuff like this, I try sister, I really do. But when things like this happen. I just can not trust what is going on..

 

[PennEd]

I do not want to be disagreeble but can we say fully what

I think that is a far comment I can say I have nort


I think PENNED has a far point. If he will agree that it has been said repeatedly the action of some were not a reflection of all. I do not see all here in the same light as a few here who are immature. I can say none of us were alive here when Smith Wigglesworth ministered. I have never read of him hitting a baby. I think that was wrong and he did so out of ignorance. Lester Summerall who was an eyewitness of the ministry of SW, and Smith was an uneducated man. he came up in a time and was used in powerful healings. SW said it was God who did these things but his methods were looked down on. He needs to be shown a better way.

!cor 14 says let all be done in decency and in order. His action would not meet that standard however, God did heal or are you suggesting the devil healed them? I know you are not.

as i minister each Sunday as I believe the word of God says we are to pray one for the other. a sister came to me and made known a physical condition in her abdomen area, I did not punch her in the stomach, nor did I place my hand on her stomach. I called for another sister to lay her hand on her stomach and I laid my hand on her forehead and prayed over her in the name of Lord for healing. and to Give the doctors wisdom in treating this sister. She said the pain was gone. I told her to go to her doctor and still be examined. All glory to God. I do not see anything I did that was not biblical.

This is really the EXACT kind of thing I can get onboard with on healings! I believe we ALL can do likewise. Where I may differ is that I'm not sure the Lord will heal every condition every time. He has His purposes for everything. Including healing or NOT healing. But I CERTAINLY believe the Lord can and does still heal.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I have done it twice now.

How do you expect me to see you as being honest, when you do stuff like this, I try sister, I really do. But when things like this happen. I just can not trust what is going on..

hold your fire man

I am not omnipresent here

I don't expect anything and I am not trying to win favor or points here

I am multitasking and not 'doing stuff'

show some good faith and please point me to where he says that.

so I can beat him up (jking)

 

[7seasrekeyed]

right here and waiting...possibly drumming my fingers and definitely rescuing supper from burning

 

[notuptome]

This is really the EXACT kind of thing I can get onboard with on healings! I believe we ALL can do likewise. Where I may differ is that I'm not sure the Lord will heal every condition every time. He has His purposes for everything. Including healing or NOT healing. But I CERTAINLY believe the Lord can and does still heal.

I do not recall anyone saying anything to the contrary. The argument has always been about tongues not the remaining gifts God has given to the body.

The gift of healing is given to the infirmed and God allows us to join in prayer for the healing to occur.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hold your fire man

I am not omnipresent here

I don't expect anything and I am not trying to win favor or points here

I am multitasking and not 'doing stuff'

show some good faith and please point me to where he says that.

so I can beat him up (jking)

I am not asking you to beat him up. Or even agree with him, or even attack him.

All I am asking is that you admit he believes water baptism is where we recieve remission of sin, ie, we are initially saved at the moment we are water baptised.

Ie, water baptism is essential to salvation, not a response to one who has been saved.

It is a real joy to go out and preach the gospel to others knowing that God is calling those who are seeking the truth about God
and salvation.
And through sharing the scriptures (and sharing my own testimony) those whom God is calling in to his Spirit-filled church
will believe and repent; and submit and obey; and undertake full immersion water baptism for the remission of their sins;
and experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues - a new wonderful spiritual
prayer language, that delivers through faith many blessings, healings and miracles.

The Spirit of truth that teaches and convicts; the Spirit of adoption; the Spirit of power; the Spirit of righteousness; the Spirit
of Christ …

I mean there you go, in his own words. His gospel. Believe, Repent, Submit, and be water baptised. (Not to mention. To also experience the baptism of the spirit by speaking in tongues)

 

[CS1]

I do not see that as unbiblical also. And we have witnessed that also even without laying on of hands, which I have no issue with.

Again, I think people miss Penned’s point, Unlike you and 7 and others, who have decried what the person did. One member was sticking up for him and defending him basically saying what he did was ok. That was the issue, and why Penned made the comment, (ie, if it is ok for him to do that is it ok for someone to do that to me?)

I don't want to read into why one would think it is ok, I would say God has asked some to do some crazy things that would get us thrown in jail today LOL

kill your son
spit make mud and put it in a person's eye
call a woman a dog
kill women and child

I would not take a body out of casket drop the body three times until it came to life either LOL. But the end result produced glory to God. Now could it be SW acted on his own? have any of us ever done that? I would think so. maybe not to the extreme but in a way that would bring some scoffing or mocking?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am not asking you to beat him up. Or even agree with him, or even attack him.

All I am asking is that you admit he believes water baptism is where we recieve remission of sin, ie, we are initially saved at the moment we are water baptised.

Ie, water baptism is essential to salvation, not a response to one who has been saved.



I mean there you go, in his own words. His gospel. Believe, Repent, Submit, and be water baptised. (Not to mention. To also experience the baptism of the spirit by speaking in tongues)

well thank you

you missed my humor obviously though

no I don't agree if he is saying we receive forgiveness in water baptism

please remember my background is neither Pentecostal or Charismatic

I don't know... maybe some churches teach this?

I see people accepting Christ, being baptized in water and later infilling with the Holy Spirit or infilling first and water later....it seems to me there are differing examples of this in Acts

at this point I'm gonna say like the blind man who received his sight

I don't know about that. All I know is I accepted Christ, was water baptized and later received the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' and with years in between.

I have actually questioned things in this forum with regards to my own beliefs and earnestly prayed and told God it can get confusing with all people say they believe and find in scripture

if you can bear with me a moment, cause I have to question something being quoted from scripture, I would like to get back to this in a bit. thanks for your response

so I have no problem saying I was wrong about what I said...but I don't think it's a hill to die on

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't want to read into why one would think it is ok, I would say God has asked some to do some crazy things that would get us thrown in jail today LOL

kill your son
spit make mud and put it in a person's eye
call a woman a dog
kill women and child

I would not take a body out of casket drop the body three times until it came to life either LOL. But the end result produced glory to God. Now could it be SW acted on his own? have any of us ever done that? I would think so. maybe not to the extreme but in a way that would bring some scoffing or mocking?

oh for real

I used to be afraid God would ask me to do something weird.

I would pray 'please don't ask me to do something strange'

I was pretty young LOL!

 

[Wansvic]

So your afraid to say..

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

Dude.. You should be ashamed.

I pray you do not go around trying to get people to see your way, Your to afraid to even answer what you believe.

I believe every passage you post is from God. Just not the same interpretation as you..

One thing I am not afraid to say is this, When it comes to remission of sin, and salvation, IT IS NOT by the means of water baptism (my answer is no)

Why are you so afraid to say yes or no?

Of course, I know your answer, You believe yes, that salvation is through water baptism, I just want you to comfirm that what I think you believe is right, is it?

As I have said numerous times without the shed blood of Jesus there would be no salvation. Jesus made the way and specifically gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Peter's instructions include the need for everyone to repent, get water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

So here's the backstory.

These tongues/Gifts/ Baptized in the Spirit threads have been going on for at least a couple of yrs. The subject seemed so unimportant to me for so long, that I never checked them out. So a couple of months ago I decided to see what all the hub bub was about.

Like you, I always knew there was a segment of charismatic charlatans like Hinn, Hagin, and Copeland, that did this hoaky stuff like we have been talking about. But I DIDN'T know just how dangerous, how far reaching, this movement has become. I also didn't know how obscenely wealthy these people got on the desperate hopes of the misled, sick, and poor.

But I truly had no opinion on the subject matter listed above. I agreed I was ignorant on those issues. Shame on me for neglecting these issues.

So I read both sides of the debate, and watched many diverse Pastors, and posted some videos of the VERY shocking things I saw at these HUGE mega Charismatic churches. Behavior that I THOUGHT EVERYONE here would see as horrific and not from the Holy Spirit. I was unprepared for the assault I would receive from those that were in favor of continuation of gifts etc.. EVEN though I NEVER claimed cessationism. and I STILL don't. And defense of these guys from most, not all, that I didn't understand that the Holy Spirit could operate in this type of way. That i MUST NOT have been Baptized with the Holy Spirit. That is when what Pastor MacArthur said stuck with me. That those that come off as reasonable in the movement either join in the attack, or REFUSE to condemn this VERY large, growing movement and their obvious charlatans!.

It seemed the deeper I dug the smellier the whole movement was. And the vitriol from the continuation folks only increased exponentially on a personal level. People that I agreed with on MANY other issues turned rabid. Again, there were a few exceptions, like Lafftur for instance, who at least was open to having a dialog.

So I would encourage you to do your own research. Be a good Berean. And don't take MY word for anything, or anybody elses.

No doubt, I have been there as well brother PennEd.

Each of us will have to give an account individually to Christ.

Some will hear and some won't.

May God open their eyes and ears before it's to late.

2 Corinthians 5:10-15
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

 

[fredoheaven]

well, fred, you are not in heaven yet and you cannot live for God as he requires without the POWER of the Holy Spirit

we cannot please God in our fleshly efforts which means we must walk in the Spirit

no one can walk in the Spirit if they constantly refuse Him

tongues are the least of your worries

Yap, the gospel came not by words only but with power to save. It is the Holy Spirit to convict sinners in order to believe the gospel and the same gospel is able to give us an assurance of salvation for the "preaching of gospel is the power of God unto salvation that believeth..." Romans 1:16 which is actually the verse is saying.

 

[fredoheaven]

As I have said numerous times without the shed blood of Jesus there would be no salvation. Jesus made the way and specifically gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Peter's instructions include the need for everyone to repent, get water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Water baptism is not part of the Gospel, it part of the GC so called in Mark 16:16

 

[fredoheaven]

I shared scripture. The following is not an interpretation of what the scripture states about water and Holy Ghost baptisms it is actual scripture:

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. 2 Cor 13:1

John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Notice what Jesus is saying here, the Spirit is not visible but one will discern its presence by sound.

The Holy Spirit is invisible cannot be seen with our eye. The water here refers to the word of God. Remember Jesus says the word he speaketh is spirit.

John 6:33 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I have said numerous times without the shed blood of Jesus there would be no salvation. Jesus made the way and specifically gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Peter's instructions include the need for everyone to repent, get water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So this is how we get saved?