Not By Works
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NIV1984 Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS to do good works, which God PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO.
The Gospel of salvation is not complete without obedience to God. Nowhere in the gospel did it say that we don't need to obey to be saved.
God justifies and we bring Him glory through our FAITH with OBEDIENCE which is a living FAITH not a dead FAITH that cannot save.
Not by FAITH ALONE is what's in the bible.
Jesus gave us examples to follow.
NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Who are dead in the sight of God?
NIV1984 James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
For we are God’s workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS to do good works, which God PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO.
The Gospel of salvation is not complete without obedience to God. Nowhere in the gospel did it say that we don't need to obey to be saved.
God justifies and we bring Him glory through our FAITH with OBEDIENCE which is a living FAITH not a dead FAITH that cannot save.
Not by FAITH ALONE is what's in the bible.
Jesus gave us examples to follow.
NIV1984 Hebrews 5:8-9
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.
NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Who are dead in the sight of God?
NIV1984 James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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The good works mentioned on Ephesians is not related to salvation. It was not mentioned as needed for salvation in that verse. As christians we are expected to do good works.
In Hebrews, Jesus was addressing the Jews and was talking about the past, when the Jews needed to obey the law to be saved.
The book of James is addressed to the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad. Thats why James talked about faith and works salvation because the Jews believed they were still under the law.
In revelation, in the tribulation, the jews will do the actual washing of the blood of Jesus to cleanse themselves. They will have to work very hard and become martyrs for Christ to earn their salvation since they really like works salvation when they had the chance to get it for free.
Christians don't need to work for salvation. Jesus did all the work and cleansed us with His blood. How can you cleanse further something that is already super clean?
In Hebrews, Jesus was addressing the Jews and was talking about the past, when the Jews needed to obey the law to be saved.
The book of James is addressed to the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad. Thats why James talked about faith and works salvation because the Jews believed they were still under the law.
In revelation, in the tribulation, the jews will do the actual washing of the blood of Jesus to cleanse themselves. They will have to work very hard and become martyrs for Christ to earn their salvation since they really like works salvation when they had the chance to get it for free.
Christians don't need to work for salvation. Jesus did all the work and cleansed us with His blood. How can you cleanse further something that is already super clean?
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The DEAD HE is referred to are the Spiritually DEAD. I used to be one of them, who went to Church, but was NEVER BORN AGAIN. I was born and raised in a Christian home, but I WAS SPIRITUALLY DEAD. Yes, I took up Space on a Pew almost every Sunday, but the Church that I was raised in NEVER TAUGHT BORN AGAIN. Some one should have told me as I was growing up that SITTING IN A PEW DID NOT MAKE ME A CHRISTIAN, ANY MORE THAN SITTING IN A GARAGE WOULD MAKE ME A CAR. I WAS BORN AGAIN AFTER THREE ATTEMPTS AT SUICIDE AT 29 YEARS OF AGE. I SURRENDERED TO JESUS, WITH A PRAYER THE HOLY SPIRIT MUST HAVE GIVEN ME, because no one in the Lutheran Church ever taught me this prayer:
"Lord forgive me! If you have a purpose for my life, You will have to come into my heart and You will have to run my life, because I can't do it. I am making a total mess of it."
That at was 29 Dec. 1977, and maybe I forgot a word or two, but that was what the Holy Spirit gave me to PRAY. I meant it with my whole being, and it was a complete SURRENDER to Jesus Christ as my LORD. It came after Wave, after Wave of Guilt for my Whole Lifestyle, hit me. I cried like a baby for 2 or 3 hours. Now I attend a conservative evangelical type of Church, that is Non-denominational. And YES they certainly teach Born Again.
Your Statements are what we are to do AFTER WE ARE SAVED.
2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
12 But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
1 Corinthians 12:3 (YLT)
3 wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.
THAT IS TO SAY IT AS A CONFESSION, what has truly happened in your heart.
So there you have WHEN HE SAVED US, and WHEN WE ACTUALLY RECEIVED THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATION.
Which is Before any works can be done, and it involves the Permanent RESIDENCE IN OUR HEARTS (Human Spirit), the BIRTH OF OUR HUMAN SPIRIT, and the Pouring of GOD's LOVE into out HEARTS.
Everything AFTER THAT is Learning to WALK LIKE JESUS, which is part of SANCTIFYING / Saving of THE BODY, whereas OUR Human Spirit WAS ALREADY SAVED AT THE MOMENT OF GENUINE FAITH, and GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE. THAT is the guarantee that the BODY WILL COME ALONG TOO, but our Body will not be PERFECT until the Resurrection. NEVER IS IT We HAVE to obey. IT IS ALWAYS, WE WILL WANT TO OBEY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
IF You do not want to believe the Human Spirit has ETERNAL LIFE from Birth ?
Here is the evidence:
John 6:47 (CSBBible)
47 "Truly I tell you, anyone who believes has eternal life.
Yes this body will die, but the HUMAN SPIRIT, once you have been born again, HAS ETERNAL LIFE.
John 3:36 (CSBBible)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:11 (NASB)
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
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So in a sense we complete our salvation by being obedient?
It's obedience that appropriates justification and not faith?
What does justification mean to you?
Does it relate to righteousness?
If so is it imparted or imputed?
Was Abraham justified by faith or obedience?
Romans 4:1-4
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen. 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Does verse 2 above relate to the passage in James?
Our works do not justify us before God but before men.
Faith will produce works, God knows we have faith but do we show up?
If not then is it a genuine faith, if not then we have not been justified.
Romans 4:9-12
Abraham Justified Before Circumcision
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
What about David?
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
So please expand on your thoughts concerning God justifies us and why it's not justified.
Maybe give examples as well.
Bill
It's obedience that appropriates justification and not faith?
What does justification mean to you?
Does it relate to righteousness?
If so is it imparted or imputed?
Was Abraham justified by faith or obedience?
Romans 4:1-4
Abraham Justified by Faith
(Gen. 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Does verse 2 above relate to the passage in James?
Our works do not justify us before God but before men.
Faith will produce works, God knows we have faith but do we show up?
If not then is it a genuine faith, if not then we have not been justified.
Romans 4:9-12
Abraham Justified Before Circumcision
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
What about David?
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
So please expand on your thoughts concerning God justifies us and why it's not justified.
Maybe give examples as well.
Bill
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I meant to respond to this post yesterday, but I can't remember if I actually DID or not 
...
Take a look at how this verse is worded, and note that Paul is speaking of a "corporate 'you'" who he is to "present" (not an individual chaste person [alone]):
"For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you' (plural)] with the jealousy of God. For I [Paul] have betrothed you [corporate 'you' (plural)] to one husband, to present A PURE[/CHASTE] VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ." 2Cor11:2
[this was Paul's assigned task; and it pertains to "the Church which is His body" SOLELY, not to all saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [JtB was "FRIEND" of the Bridegroom, not "Bride," for example], not to Trib saints [these (plural) go in with Him to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK], not the "MARRIAGE" itself]", not to MK saints]
...Take a look at how this verse is worded, and note that Paul is speaking of a "corporate 'you'" who he is to "present" (not an individual chaste person [alone]):
"For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you' (plural)] with the jealousy of God. For I [Paul] have betrothed you [corporate 'you' (plural)] to one husband, to present A PURE[/CHASTE] VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ." 2Cor11:2
[this was Paul's assigned task; and it pertains to "the Church which is His body" SOLELY, not to all saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [JtB was "FRIEND" of the Bridegroom, not "Bride," for example], not to Trib saints [these (plural) go in with Him to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK], not the "MARRIAGE" itself]", not to MK saints]
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HAHAHHAHAA man....you have a lot of error in your false gospel there pal.....FAITH ALONE is what saves or are you too dense to understand ALL the verses I quoted above that prove your blather is false......TAKE it up with JESUS and get right before you make the MANY group that gets cast......MAYBE put your glasses on to read the following if it is too small for you to comprehend.....!! MAKE no mistake....the cafe blend gospel you peddle will take you some place you do not wish to go dude!!!
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
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I stand amazed at all the cainlogists and religionists that still peddle works after ALL the verses which state clearly that WORKS play no part in obtaining eternal life or salvation....
JESUS was clear.....those that blend FAITH with WORKS to try and gain entrance into the KINGDOM will NOT be recognized and or allowed to enter...they were NEVER saved because they BELIEVED in a false gospel <---see Galatians....FAITH plus WORKS to finish salvation = false gospel, no power, double cursed and ALL that believe it or peddle it are called FOOLS and BEWITCHED......!!!!!
JESUS was clear.....those that blend FAITH with WORKS to try and gain entrance into the KINGDOM will NOT be recognized and or allowed to enter...they were NEVER saved because they BELIEVED in a false gospel <---see Galatians....FAITH plus WORKS to finish salvation = false gospel, no power, double cursed and ALL that believe it or peddle it are called FOOLS and BEWITCHED......!!!!!
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Amen, Faith alone is what brings life, purifies our heart and steers us in the right direction
walking in the Holy Spirit. The sad thing is those who use the language of faith, yet do not know
how to exercise it. Everything we do is by faith, we see the Lords work, know how it will form and
make its location, and then we have to walk in it. But men without faith think faith is passive
and never inspires action or change, but that is by definition dead faith with no vision.
Praise the Lord He bring us life faith, to see His Spirit working in His people and in everything
going on around us, Amen.
walking in the Holy Spirit. The sad thing is those who use the language of faith, yet do not know
how to exercise it. Everything we do is by faith, we see the Lords work, know how it will form and
make its location, and then we have to walk in it. But men without faith think faith is passive
and never inspires action or change, but that is by definition dead faith with no vision.
Praise the Lord He bring us life faith, to see His Spirit working in His people and in everything
going on around us, Amen.
NOW WOULD YOU CARE TO SQUARE THAT WITH THIS SCRIPTURE:
2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
That blows your theory clean out of the water, doesn't it ? ? ?
The TRUTH is, OBEDIENCE is a BYPRODUCT of LOVE. In fact it is GOD's LOVE that the Holy Spirit poured into our HEART (Human Spirit) the Moment we truly BELIEVED, Rom. 5:5. It literally is our way to LOVE GOD back, because HE SAVED US BEFORE TIME BEGAN. THEREFORE IT IS NOTHING BUT A FREE GIFT FROM GOD.
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I have to wonder, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE EXPLAINED THAT IN THIS POST, and I came in late? Still they keep coming with the same old theory, and their wishful thinking, proclaiming their false theory that their works have a part in finishing their Salvation.
What part of BEFORE TIME BEGAN, do they not understand?
What part of BEFORE TIME BEGAN, do they not understand?
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This is a very difficult topic to deal with but is easily proven to be false using the scriptures.The many conditional statements that accompany certain statements about salvation support this understanding.It is hard to avoid these passages.For example:
Galatians 6:
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
However in the long run,arguing this point is usually a fruitless discussion,as persons in life experiences and in the scriptures who fall into a backslidden state are said by proponents of OSAS to have never been truly saved ,in order to support their erroneous doctrine. The scriptures do affirm the safety of the elect but it is obvious that all who become saved may not all be the elect and hence some who were saved will not maintain the faith in Christ which will ensure their salvation.As the scriptures teach:
Hebrews 3:
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God.
It is possible the doctrine should be OEAE.
Explain.
Galatians 6:
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
However in the long run,arguing this point is usually a fruitless discussion,as persons in life experiences and in the scriptures who fall into a backslidden state are said by proponents of OSAS to have never been truly saved ,in order to support their erroneous doctrine. The scriptures do affirm the safety of the elect but it is obvious that all who become saved may not all be the elect and hence some who were saved will not maintain the faith in Christ which will ensure their salvation.As the scriptures teach:
Hebrews 3:
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God.
It is possible the doctrine should be OEAE.
Explain.