Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?
- Thread starter Guojing
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here is Jesus' instructions in Mark;
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Amazing in these last days some would seek to nullify it
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Amazing in these last days some would seek to nullify it
Do you remember what I'd put about "the WISE [of Israel]" in Dan12:1-4,10? how that this is not referring to a "bodily/physical resurrection [from the dead]" (like 12:13 is), but about Israel coming "up out of the graveyard of nations, where scattered" (like the parallel passages of: Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 (the "dry bones" prophecy); Hosea 5:15-6:3 ("after two days... in the third day"); Isaiah 26:16-21 (note the "birth pangs"); Romans 11:15[25] ("what shall the receiving of them [Israel] be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD"); John 6:39 [distinct from v.40]; Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 [distinct from Rom9:25/Hos2:23b which is re: the Gentiles]; Micah 5:3 esp. pt. b [distinct from 5:2]; etc...). I believe these 144,000 ("servants of our God" 7:3) correlate with the "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" of Matt22:8 (necessarily FOLLOWING the v.7's "70ad events" [see also Lk21:23,20 in the "70ad events" section of the Olivet Discourse--vv.12-24]), so that these 144,000 are AMONG those (of Israel) who will carry forth the "INVITATION" to/for "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (the earthly MK).
Notice how Dan12:4 tells of what they ("the WISE [of Israel]") go on TO DO (and then vv.6-7 ask and tell "how long to the end of THESE WONDERS" and gives a very specific time period, which at that time [and per the specific wording/phrasing noted there], will be "understood" especially by those [faithful remnant] of Israel [having come to faith AFTER our Rapture/DURING the trib years])…
And do you recall my saying that I believe the 144,000 are the "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT harvest" (per what I see of the TWO distinct "firstfruit" of Lev23; theirs being connected with the v.17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN", etc, and the correlation I see of the wording in Rev14:4 "unto God and to the Lamb" with the wording in Lev23:17 also, "firstfruits unto the Lord"), and which "WHEAT harvest" is harvested by means of a "tribulum".... This is not referring to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us / believers of "this present age [singular]").
Here's a portion of what I'd written about that, in past posts:
[quoting]
So, in view of that, I believe the 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the WHEAT harvest (the TWO LOAVES; and "baken with leaven" [these are not "the Church which is His body"], per Lev23:17-18, where it similarly states they are "unto the Lord" [like Rev14:4 does],
... and that the "a great multitude... of all the nations [/Gentiles]" & the WHEAT of Matt13 [still-living persons at end of trib] & the Sheep of the nations [/Gentiles] of Matt25 [still-living persons at end of trib]... are the rest of THAT harvest: WHEAT.
"Gather[-ed] into My barn" refers to the earthly MK time period, as "wheat" is harvested by means of a "tribulum"
[Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days!" are those who survive to the end of the trib, and enter in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children--Any believer/saint who died during the trib will be "resurrected" for that [the MK], per Rev20:4, and these will not be capable of reproducing/bearing children but will be like the angels (who don't reproduce)])
And whereas "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum," the earlier harvest is NOT, but instead is harvested by means of "tossing into the air" which separates that which [is not OF the harvest (or "chaff"), for lack of a better way of putting it, at the moment]
[end quoting]
^ Also, do you remember my saying that "as the days of Noah were, SO SHALL ALSO the coming of the Son of man be..." passage (Matt24:37) speaks of His Second Coming to the earth (as ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come" passages do) and correlates perfectly with what both Dan2:35 AND Gen9:1 say ("[actively] FILL/FILLED the [whole] earth"... not to mention Dan7:27 speaking also of the ppl still in mortal bodies, there [the earthly MK age--"the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven" FOLLOWING the specific time period of v.25 there]); those "taken" will be "taken away in judgment," just as in Noah's day; and those "left" will be "left to enter the MK in their mortal bodies" (capable of bearing children/reproducing), just as in Noah's day... So where it says (of those "taken" /the lost) "they knew not until," this does not mean that they never heard Noah ("a preacher of righteousness") or never saw him "preparing the ark"... it's that they disregarded the word of God via Noah.
^ EDIT (to add): "it's that they disregarded the word of God via Noah. [1Pet3:19, I believe, means He [Jesus] went "in Spirit" to those Noah "preached" unto (i.e. via Noah, preacher of righteousness), who are now in the prison (the lost, of Noah's day)... "in which [in which Spirit] also having gone, He preached [during the days of Noah (via Noah, preacher of righteousness)] to the spirits in prison [who are now in prison]"]
the Gospel is Christ, the message of the Kingdom is the King, which we are saved from our sin and given eternal life, then we are told to take the kingdom of God to the world which is the King's message; Salvation.
Matthew 3:2 [re: John the Baptist, FRIEND of the Bridegroom, John 3:29] -
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
Matthew 4:17 -
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
Matthew 10:1-7 -
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
[and I am among those who believe Matthew 10 is showing a near fulfillment as well as a far-future fulfillment, in its overall context (note: I do not mean to say "double fulfillment")]
At some point during His earthly ministry (as I see it), this ceased being said (but will resume in the future trib years, such as that to which Matthew 24:33 and Mark 13:29 refer: "near/nigh, even at the doors"... the "IT," here, referring to "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom," commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth [such as we see in the wording of Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal!] The phrase "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is not referring to "UP IN Heaven")
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
Matthew 4:17 -
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
Matthew 10:1-7 -
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand.
[and I am among those who believe Matthew 10 is showing a near fulfillment as well as a far-future fulfillment, in its overall context (note: I do not mean to say "double fulfillment")]
At some point during His earthly ministry (as I see it), this ceased being said (but will resume in the future trib years, such as that to which Matthew 24:33 and Mark 13:29 refer: "near/nigh, even at the doors"... the "IT," here, referring to "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom," commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth [such as we see in the wording of Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal!] The phrase "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is not referring to "UP IN Heaven")
No such thing as sign gift. Spiritual gift having to do with a spirit (not seen), yes.
Actually if a person looks to the foundation (Isaiah 28) of the law (1 Corinthians 14: 21-22)and what the sign confirms .Then its easy to see the mocking is the other way around.
Find out what the sign confirms, then the rest of the doctrine of tongues (a new testemtment manner of prophecy) as one of the many manners used to bring the gospel up until the last inspired of God revelation with John on the island of Patmos.
With stammering lips God mocks those who are still looking for a sign to support those who refuse to hear God.(un belief) Adding new supposed revelations to the already perfectly complete source of faith would violate the last warning He gave before sealing with seven seals, the warning not to add or take away from the whole. .The last book is still Revelation chapter 22.
Why seek after a sign and wonders gospel as in seeing is believing. The faithless Jew who turned things upside down turning curses into blessings tried to make a circus Seal out of Jesus .
John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Jesus confirms them that "yet for all that" they will not believe the prophecy of God not seen, confirming their unbelief.
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Marvel not, and yet for all that they still refuse to believe prophecy after any manner except their own oral tradition of men as a sign against them confirming unbelief, no faith that which comes as it is written
Isaiah 28:11-12 King James Version (KJV)For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
believe not = no faith .
Believe = faith
The it as it is written the unseen law of faith. It heals . The letter as that seen it kills.
So, let's make it as simple as possible, to understand what is on your mind.
If a non Christian were to ask you, "What do I need to believe in, in order to be saved? What is the Gospel Message that you have for salvation?" How would you reply to that question?
People say thank you but they hardly follow Mark's version of the GC. As I have stated in my opening post
- Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
Actually, in early Acts, this message about repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, was still being preached by Peter in Acts 2 and 3. The Jews were given a second chance, but they still rejected it.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
To me, this verse is indicating there is a change in dispensation, from Jesus's earthly ministry, to the words given to Paul our Apostle when Jesus is in heaven.
Ever wondered why Paul almost never talk about Jesus's teachings to the Jews in the 4 Gospels?
That very question was asked in the book of Acts chapter 16:29-34 I will be better for you if I show you what is written instead of telling you what I would say.
29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
There you go.
Okay some clarifications needed from you.
Believe in what about Jesus?
Believe that Jesus is the promised messiah and king?
Or
Believe that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and rose on the 3rd day for your justification?
Do I need to believe in both? Would either one be sufficient?
Do I also need to get water baptized to confirm the salvation? What happen if I don’t? Am I still saved?
I thinks its more of a indication as it reads that even though some did see the corrupted flesh of the Son of man, Jesus .As flesh that he says of his own corrupted it does not profit as a quickening spirit . God would not accept a dead sacrifice. Seeing that which can and did profit is the work of the quickening of the Spirit not seen.
Some followed after him because of what the eyes see. like Thomas who was used as a lesson to have faith as it is written and not trust what the yes see . When the one time promised demonstration was over and he disappeared out of sight .He informs us he will not reappear as a man ever again .
There is no dispensation or change. The one author remains the same, Christ. Paul is not a co-author.
We walk by one faith as a understanding that comes from hearing God, one baptism not of ourselves but that of Christ, the faith of God. according as it is written .His interpretation of a witness who was there and not our private interpretations as personal commentaries. In that way we look to the things not seen the eternal by and through the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God.
2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
The first disciples in John 6 who had no born again spirit of faith were offended when Christ spoke of disappearing out of sight, not to return again . they stopped up their ears in unbelief.
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.John6: 60-68
No such thing as dead flesh of eternal life.
That to me is a very dangerous interpretation. Man's flesh is corrupted because his spirit has sinned, in Adam. Romans 5:12
On the other hand, Jesus was conceived thru the Holy Spirit, his blood came from the Father directly. He had no trace of Adam's sinful nature, so his body cannot be corrupted.
As for the change in dispensations, Christ is always the author of both, but it does not mean everything is revealed at once. He himself said to his disciples John 16:12
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
And when Paul finally emerged in the scene he said this in Gal 1,
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
it seems you are very legalistic in your questioning
Accepting who Jesus is as Messiah and King are not speaking of who HE as God. Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews and HE is the King. That speaks of his humanity :
But Jesus has many Titles does he not?
Lord,
Son of God
Bread of life
Lamb of God
Chief Corner Stone
King of kings
Great High Preist
I AM
Lord of All
Risen Lord
The Door
The way
The Word
The truth
The Lord Jesus Christ is what every knee will bow and confess.
Philippians 2:10-11
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:11
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
it is not that you need to believe in both Jesus as Messiah and king
it is we believe HE is ALL he claimed to be. But everyone who was saved that Knew HE is the Messiah Bowed and called Him LORD! and My God. And we are told to confess the same. rom 10:9-10
God is not a man as us.
Paul coming on the scence has nothing to do with the gospel .
The gospel was never after any man never could or will be .God is not a man as us
The blood of Jesus came from the corrupted flesh of Mary typified as sinful. She inherited it from Eve the mother of all flesh . Christ did not sin in thought or deed . But in order to "demonstrate" the promised work of the Holy Spirit pouring out his Spirt of flesh sinful flesh was needed .
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Or condemned the corrupted things seen as rudiments of this world .No corrupted flesh and blood could enter the kingdom of God.
The father an attribute of God is never typified as having form .(flesh and blood) what the eyes see . That belongs to the Son of Man, Jesus alone.