Why a multitude of spiritual gifts are ignored
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
I wish cessationists would come up with something original instead of the standard go to the hospitals sarcasm 101 response
someone could just as easily say to the Congo and preach salvation. any takers? certainly everyone thinks salvation is of God? then why isn't everyone saved?
I have wondered why Jesus appeared in the timeline that He did and it is responses such as this one, that create the thought that people are scoffers and look for reasons to avoid doing and or believing what they think THEMSELF incapable of doing
when discussing spiritual gifts, it would behoove the respondents to actually understand the directions regarding same
1. who gives the gift?
2. who is healing?
3. did everyone receive healing in scripture?
4. what would be the result of healing everyone in a hospital? and if you think it would be everyone would believe in God, then think again and read the results of both healing and other miracles in scripture.
why would God provide healing for all? why not eternal life for all?
when you respond with 'if' you are throwing out a challenge and think you are having a 'gotcha' moment
when you say 'if' and 'then' you are accusing the one you are talking to, that they do not believe what they say themself
when you tell the person to go and do the healing, you demonstrate that you have not received a proper understanding of the gifts, how they work, how they are given
on one hand you despise faith healers because they make a public show of healing and on the other hand you tell someone to go and do the same
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
well you can' have it both ways
God heals both ways
and elders are also to pray
I am not of WOF believe that if you believe hard enough you will be healed
neither is God
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
is it me, or has the reason the op mentions in the title, the WHY of supposedly ignoring 'other' spiritual gifts been explained?
for the record, I certainly do not ignore the other gifts. and besides tongues, have experienced several of them
thing is, around here if there is even a slight mention of tongues, opposition reigns down engendering a defense and an attempt at explanation is offered and met with scoffing and twisting of both what posters write and worse, scripture itself
and now it appears we have ignored everything else
so, why is that again?
for the record, I certainly do not ignore the other gifts. and besides tongues, have experienced several of them
thing is, around here if there is even a slight mention of tongues, opposition reigns down engendering a defense and an attempt at explanation is offered and met with scoffing and twisting of both what posters write and worse, scripture itself
and now it appears we have ignored everything else
so, why is that again?
What is your take on Matthew 13:57-8?
57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Modern Redacted Version......the word redacted is idea is being thrown around a lot.....It is rather silly to state "redacted" version since this in writing circles refers to the process a manuscript goes through to prepare it for and prior to publication as a way of correcting, revising or protecting sensitive private information.
A more appropriate title could be Modern Abridged Version if it were in fact true.
You have entirely missed the point.
If the spiritual gift of healing was operational in ALL Christians churches (as would be the case if it was indeed operational) there would be no need for faith healers. Nor for calling of the elders for the prayer for healing. The healers would just go and heal.
Every church (Charismatic or not) would have at least one healer. And why wouldn't they go to the hospitals and heal those in need of healing? Just as evangelists go and preach the Gospel where they are led.
LOL This was funny
and it was a dig at those of the Pentecostal doctrine too.
I. GIFTS WHICH CEASED AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE BIBLE (1 COR 13:8-10) wrong uses three verses out of one unit chapter of 1cor 13 when chapter 12 and 14 refutes this understanding.
II. GIFTS WHICH CEASED AFTER THE PASSING OF THE APOSTLES Unbiblical
III. GIFTS WHICH ARE NOW OPERATIONAL UNTIL THE RAPTURE
LOl
LOL funny stuff.
II. GIFTS WHICH CEASED AFTER THE PASSING OF THE APOSTLES
5. Apostles [there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, Rev 21:14]
6. Miracles workers (miracles, signs, wonders, mighty deeds)
7. Healers (healings)
8. Snake handlers (safe from snake venom)
9. Drinkers of poison (safe from being poisoned)
8 & 9 were not gifts LOl they were statements made by the Lord Jesus Christ as to carrying out the Great Commission Nothing will stop the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
There is a gift of healing, available to Spirit filled believers who make themselves available; There is the office of a healer, one who is called to healing as a 'career' so to speak.
If you pray for someone - native tongue or otherwise - and they recover, you my friend have worked a gift of healing. I think that may be one of the issues, people think of gifts like healing as some hocus-pocus kind of thing and they're most always not. If a cessationist prays in English (German/French/whatever) for someone to get better and they recover, what part of "they shall lay hands on the sick and they will recover'" didn't just happen? Are we not in prayer 'laying hands' upon each other? We need to remember that God doesn't work with spotlights and video tape, and to acknowledge that yes if you do pray for someone and they do recover, you have just worked a gift whether you call it that or not.
Again, quote me one instance where Jesus emptied a hospital.
Healing was never intended to be a health care plan. Everyone who was healed of something went on to die later anyway. One must not confuse healing with immortality; they are NOT the same thing. Not in this realm at least.
I always like to paraphrase and say He couldn't heal because He couldn't prove He was in-network
The fruits of the Spirit surely did not pass away.
Healing, casting out demons, tongues, prophesy, would not pass away for if it was in operation of the early Church, then it would be in operation for the Church until the saints are with Jesus.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity is greater than faith, and hope, for faith, and hope, are not needed in heaven, for why would you have to have faith, and hope, if you are there, but charity, love in action, will go on forever.
Of all the things we did on earth only love will go on forever, for we do need to heal anyone, do not need to cast out a demon, do not need knowledge of the word of God that applied on earth, do not need to speak in tongues to edify, and give messages to the Church, to not need to prophesy, for all things are the same in heaven forever.
Love is the only thing that will go on out of all the things we done on earth while living for God.
In heaven, do not need faith, for we can see the kingdom, and are with Jesus, do not need hope, for we are in heaven, do not need to heal, do not need to prophesy, for all things go on the same, do not need knowledge of the word God gave us on earth, do not need to speak in tongues to edify us, and the Church, do not need to cast a demon out of someone.
But love will go on forever, for charity never fails.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Is this speaking that they will cease back at the time of the early Church, or that these things are not needed when we are in heaven with Jesus, like faith, and hope, and are not needed in heaven.
For how can prophesy fail if there are still prophesies in the Bible that have not come to pass, and people can still prophesy of what God would have them do, and for the Church, and Jesus said the Spirit will show us things to come, as well as guide us in to all truth, which is for all the saints throughout Church history.
And how can healing pass away when that is part of the operation of God, which started with Jesus, and why would God care to heal them back then, but not want to do it today, when people are the same throughout history.
And how can tongues cease if people need edifying the same as those back them, for the nature is still the same in people today like the early Church.
And how can knowledge fail, for God would not want us to forget any of His word of the Bible, even if it is Old Testament, and if it is knowledge that pertains to something good, and God's truth why would it pass away, for that is the only knowledge it would talk about is God's truth, for that cannot pass away.
The Bible says that God makes a new heaven, and a new earth, the New Jerusalem, the place that Jesus went away to prepare, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.
That means when we are at the New Jerusalem the angels, and saints, will remember nothing prior to that, and will not remember the old earth, and old heaven, for they are associated with sin and rebellion, which Jesus said the former things are passed away, and I make all things new.
So at the New Jerusalem we will not remember any of the word of God, knowledge, that was given us while we were on earth, we will not remember healing, and prophesying, and tongues.
But love will go on forever, and will be the only thing we know of all the things we did on earth.
So is the Bible speaking that those gifts ceased while on earth, or that they will cease when we are in heaven, like faith, and hope, will cease when we are in heaven.
Healing, casting out demons, tongues, prophesy, would not pass away for if it was in operation of the early Church, then it would be in operation for the Church until the saints are with Jesus.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity is greater than faith, and hope, for faith, and hope, are not needed in heaven, for why would you have to have faith, and hope, if you are there, but charity, love in action, will go on forever.
Of all the things we did on earth only love will go on forever, for we do need to heal anyone, do not need to cast out a demon, do not need knowledge of the word of God that applied on earth, do not need to speak in tongues to edify, and give messages to the Church, to not need to prophesy, for all things are the same in heaven forever.
Love is the only thing that will go on out of all the things we done on earth while living for God.
In heaven, do not need faith, for we can see the kingdom, and are with Jesus, do not need hope, for we are in heaven, do not need to heal, do not need to prophesy, for all things go on the same, do not need knowledge of the word God gave us on earth, do not need to speak in tongues to edify us, and the Church, do not need to cast a demon out of someone.
But love will go on forever, for charity never fails.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Is this speaking that they will cease back at the time of the early Church, or that these things are not needed when we are in heaven with Jesus, like faith, and hope, and are not needed in heaven.
For how can prophesy fail if there are still prophesies in the Bible that have not come to pass, and people can still prophesy of what God would have them do, and for the Church, and Jesus said the Spirit will show us things to come, as well as guide us in to all truth, which is for all the saints throughout Church history.
And how can healing pass away when that is part of the operation of God, which started with Jesus, and why would God care to heal them back then, but not want to do it today, when people are the same throughout history.
And how can tongues cease if people need edifying the same as those back them, for the nature is still the same in people today like the early Church.
And how can knowledge fail, for God would not want us to forget any of His word of the Bible, even if it is Old Testament, and if it is knowledge that pertains to something good, and God's truth why would it pass away, for that is the only knowledge it would talk about is God's truth, for that cannot pass away.
The Bible says that God makes a new heaven, and a new earth, the New Jerusalem, the place that Jesus went away to prepare, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.
That means when we are at the New Jerusalem the angels, and saints, will remember nothing prior to that, and will not remember the old earth, and old heaven, for they are associated with sin and rebellion, which Jesus said the former things are passed away, and I make all things new.
So at the New Jerusalem we will not remember any of the word of God, knowledge, that was given us while we were on earth, we will not remember healing, and prophesying, and tongues.
But love will go on forever, and will be the only thing we know of all the things we did on earth.
So is the Bible speaking that those gifts ceased while on earth, or that they will cease when we are in heaven, like faith, and hope, will cease when we are in heaven.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
did I?
did I miss the point?
you conveniently missed almost my entire post
so here it is again.
I wish cessationists would come up with something original instead of the standard go to the hospitals sarcasm 101 response
someone could just as easily say to the Congo and preach salvation. any takers? certainly everyone thinks salvation is of God? then why isn't everyone saved?
I have wondered why Jesus appeared in the timeline that He did and it is responses such as this one, that create the thought that people are scoffers and look for reasons to avoid doing and or believing what they think THEMSELF incapable of doing
when discussing spiritual gifts, it would behoove the respondents to actually understand the directions regarding same
1. who gives the gift?
2. who is healing?
3. did everyone receive healing in scripture?
4. what would be the result of healing everyone in a hospital? and if you think it would be everyone would believe in God, then think again and read the results of both healing and other miracles in scripture.
why would God provide healing for all? why not eternal life for all?
when you respond with 'if' you are throwing out a challenge and think you are having a 'gotcha' moment
when you say 'if' and 'then' you are accusing the one you are talking to, that they do not believe what they say themself
when you tell the person to go and do the healing, you demonstrate that you have not received a proper understanding of the gifts, how they work, how they are given
on one hand you despise faith healers because they make a public show of healing and on the other hand you tell someone to go and do the same
maybe address the post instead of one sentence you think you have a snappy answer you can respond with
They did not have hospitals in those days as we have. But Jesus healed the equivalent of MANY HOSPITALS in one day, after healing Peter's mother-in-law, before that a centurion's servant, and before that a leper! (Mt 8:16-18). And He healed ALL THAT WERE SICK OR DEMON POSSESSED without exception:
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
18 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.
"Great multitudes" implies several thousands, just like in the feeding of the four thousand and the five thousand.
I've seen faith healers in person-never despised them. Never seen one on t. v.,.
I believe Jesus is my Lord,,,but out of curiosity if I did not and you spoke to me of Jesus and I believed would you see it as an miracle that God did through you and that I were raised from the dead in the Resurrection?
I'll take the version on the left with all the verses any day of the week over the MRV. Even the message bible sounds like a better version when you place it besides that one.