Which part of my reply is unclear to you? All of them were saved by grace thru faith.
Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?
- Thread starter Guojing
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Which part of my reply is unclear to you? All of them were saved by grace thru faith.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Then the gospel never changed, Which means I was right, as well as the others who say the same things
You are not answering my question.
Do you still reject my point, that the Gospel preached in the Matthew-John-early Acts, is not the same gospel as Paul received from the ascended Christ?
Reminds me of Romans 2:16 when Paul declared
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
...teaching them to obey EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...I agree with you, salvation is always by grace thru faith alone, since Adam. But you need to understand the concept of progressive revelation.
During the dispensation of the law, you exhibit faith by "obeying the law", all the Jews have to obey the law. It is true that all the saints of past ages were saved through the merits of Christ's shed blood, but not through their faith in that shed blood.
Those of past ages were expected to believe only what God had thus far revealed, or what He had revealed to them. In other words, they were saved simply because they trusted God and believed what He said. The full plan of salvation has since been unfolded, but the Scriptures make it crystal clear that these believers were saved without even understanding that Christ would die for them.
When God says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission. of sins," what will faith do? Just one thing: repent and be baptized. We know that oceans of water cannot wash away one sin, yet when John the Baptist and Peter preached repentance and baptism for remission not one of their hearers would have interpreted their words to mean: "Trust in the death of Christ for salvation."
Indeed, when God required water baptism for salvation the only way to manifest faith was to be baptized, and those who refused to do so were condemned for their unbelief:
"But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED THE COUNSEL OF GOD AGAINST THEMSELVES, BEING NOT BAPTIZIED OF HIM" (Luke 7:30).
But under the Gospel of Grace, let the Apostle Paul, our Apostle, spell out the church doctrine for salvation now.
"BUT NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" (Rom. 3:21);
"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5)
"Being Justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24);
"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7);
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Tit. 3:5);
"Not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)
When God now says this, what will faith do? Faith will say, "This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace."
Trust me when I tell you, everyone else from the Old Testament, King David, Noah, even the 4 Gospels guys such as Peter, James and John, will be very envious about you.
Their conditions for showing faith were not as simple as what we have to do, under the age of Grace.
Noah had to build an ark. (Hebrews 11:7)
Abel had to bring the correct sacrifice (Gen 4:4-5, Heb. 11:4)
Abraham had to believe, at his advanced years, that God would make him a father of many (Genesis 15:5-6)
Rahab had to hide the spies, at the risk of being caught and punished (Hebrews 11:31)
The point is that, by the time it reach us Gentiles, thanks to Jesus ushering the age of Grace, all we need to do, in order to display faith, is simply believing and speaking
This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace."
We simply believe the message, that Jesus Christ has started and completed the work required for our salvation and we cease from our work and believe it. If we do that, we will receive the same righteousness as Abraham received (Gal 3:6-9). I especially like the NLT version.
6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God. 8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would make the Gentiles right in his sight because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[c] 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
NIV1984 Romans 15:18
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—
Does the gospel of grace leads the Gentiles to obey God?
Who is the Lord of Paul? Isn't He the One who gave the GC, the same Lord of the 12 apostles?
NIV1984 1 Corinthians 4:6-7
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
NIV1984 Romans 11:28-32
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
NIV1984 1 Peter 2:7-10
Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
NIV1984 1 John 3:11
This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.
NIV1984 1 John 3:15-18
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
The message of the cross is SELFLESS LOVE.
1 Corinthians 8:1-3
...Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.3 But the man who loves God is known by God.
NIV1984 1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
NIV1984 Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
"No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach disobedience to God."
...Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.3 But the man who loves God is known by God.
NIV1984 1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
NIV1984 1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
NIV1984 Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
"No deceiver would ever teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach disobedience to God."
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I understand the gospel never changed. As you even admitted. Thus you are wrong
You have a very black and white kind of thinking. Okay, since you don't accept that revelation is progressive, we should not debate further about this topic.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
There is nothing to debate
The ONLY way you can be right is if the gospel changed. That is your assertion.
Progressive revelations does not change that fact.
I have already explained using Hebrews examples of how OT saints were saved by showing faith, but not in the same Christ's dbr as us, simply because God has not revealed that truth to them yet.
Do you consider that a change in gospel (good news)?
I would tell Muslims the gospel one way and I would explain it to Buddhists another way and tailor it to others as appropiate depending on where we are coming from but always leading to the one gospel. Quite simply, that is all that was happening.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
They had faith in God. Just like we do.
Your claim was that some people were saved by being baptized, Some had to follow the law. Etc etc.
Those are different gospel of works.
In the Gospel of the Kingdom, you have to show faith by getting water baptized because that is what the Lord commanded thru John the Baptist. The Jews also have to obey the law to show that their faith is not dead, as James famously put in his chapter 2.
What is the difference between that way of showing faith, and Rahab, who had to hide the spies, and Noah, who had to build an ark?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
See
You do believe in different gospels. And whats worse. You believe in gospels of works.
So please. Stop saying you do not.
I rightly divide the word, and I recognize that in previous dispensations, work may be required to show faith on our part. That to me is the more consistent way to understand the meaning behind Mark 16:16, instead of trying to twist that verse into saying something else.
But now, all of us are under the dispensation of grace, so water baptism is no longer required for salvation, as I mentioned in that earlier reply to you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
See, You again show you believe in different gospels, Which you denied earlier
Works have never been a prerequisite for salvation, They have always been the result of salvation. In any age.
Stop trying to defend yourself. You true belief has been shown.
Have you read Hebrews 11 and understood how the OT saints showed their faith?