Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[KelbyofGod]

Please tell me what "participation" you had in your physical OR Spiritual Birth? The Lord and your parents determined your physical Birth and I think THIS passage says EXACTLY who is responsible for your Spiritual Birth:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, NOR of the WILL of the flesh, NOR of the WILL of man, but of GOD..

Another interesting question. I don't think I'd ever questioned my participation on my fleshly birth. (probably just a wriggle this way or that).

And as for spiritual birth, that's an even more interesting concept if comparing it with the fleshly version in mind. (I have the feeling that the physical attributes of fleshly birth aren't relevant, but will continue to ponder it and will pray about it).

Meanwhile...
You already mentioned 3 things that sound like they require our involvement in spiritual birth... repentance, confession, belief. My list might be a little different, but I believe our willingness to submit to (comply with) the prerequisites seems fairly necessary.

(Just replying to this quote so far. I haven't read the newer postings yet.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Why would I get angry with you?

This seems to me to be a works Gospel seeping in with your post. So it's OUR enduring, and NOT Jesus Christ that saves us?

For one thing, I have no problem with works being a part of faith. As I see it, faith and works go hand in hand. (as long as we're talking about works of faith, not works of the law).

Having faith pretty much causes works to happen. That's part of the reason it says "these signs shall follow them that believe". When you get built up in faith, God soon puts you to use. (if we yield to him).


Someone else pointed out this next part so I'm not taking credit for it. But I found it an amazing observation on the rules of faith:

At no time did Peter hold himself up as he walked upon the water. He was unfailingly held up by the eternal and unwavering power of God. Faith never failed. God's eternal power never departed. Yet Peter sank. Faith was the link between Peter and the realization of that power. As long as Peter kept faith he was walking on the water. But when he let go of faith, he was no longer protected from the water. He was cut off from the power of God. He sank. Yet when he called out to Jesus, Jesus restored him.

So to recap your question of our enduring vs. Christ saving us... NO, it's not our enduring that saves us. it's always Jesus who does the saving. Faith connects us to that saving power. If we keep the faith, we keep the connection. If someone departs from the faith...well, you can read the bible to see what they are headed for... (NOTE: they should realize they are sinking and call out to Jesus).

I apologize for the dogmatic way this seems to be worded. I was aiming for meek but my wording still seems matter-of-fact-ish.

Thanks for continuing to chat with me.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[PennEd]

Another interesting question. I don't think I'd ever questioned my participation on my fleshly birth. (probably just a wriggle this way or that).

And as for spiritual birth, that's an even more interesting concept if comparing it with the fleshly version in mind. (I have the feeling that the physical attributes of fleshly birth aren't relevant, but will continue to ponder it and will pray about it).

Meanwhile...
You already mentioned 3 things that sound like they require our involvement in spiritual birth... repentance, confession, belief. My list might be a little different, but I believe our willingness to submit to (comply with) the prerequisites seems fairly necessary.

(Just replying to this quote so far. I haven't read the newer postings yet.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I think it was your MOM'S body that did ALL the work to birth you. SHE was the one in labor pains and pushed to birth you. You are the result of HER work and efforts. And we all know you didn't have anything to do with your conception as well! lol

SAME as your Spiritual Birth. You were nothing. DEAD. UNABLE to conceive yourself.

Matthew 8:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Obviously Jesus wasn't talking about a physically dead person having the ability to bury another physically dead person.
Ephesians 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

So this is the position we are in:
1 Corinthians 2:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

UNTIL!!!!! The Father reaches out and rescues the person by...

John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 NO ONE can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

THEN, it is the LORD that enables us to believe by giving us the faith to believe in Him:

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT(the faith) not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Culminating in your Spiritual Birth by believing THE Gospel unto Salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Being filled AND sealed by the Holy Spirit AT THE TIME OF THIS BIRTH:
Ephesians 1:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


So seeing how it was the Lord that rescued you from your dead state, conceiving you, drawing you to Him in labor pains, through patience, giving you the faith by which you were born, and putting His Holy Spirit in you at that time, I ask again, what participation did you have in your Spiritual Birth?

 

[notuptome]

The truth is The Lord Jesus HIMself said in the gospel of Luke11:13

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

They have a hard time when you have shown them what Jesus said about asking for the Holy Spirit. They know better than our Lord.

What Jesus said to the Jews present in Luke 11:13 was a staggering new revelation. For the Christian to view Luke 11:13 is to see the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have the Holy Spirit as a result of our new birth in Christ. We do not ask for that which we already possess.

Have you forgotten Pentecost?

Lu 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shittim]

And also in Mark c16-v17, here is a teaching from a man whose ministry has, and is bringing me to a great walk with out Lord.

blessings

 

[CS1]

What Jesus said to the Jews present in Luke 11:13 was a staggering new revelation. For the Christian to view Luke 11:13 is to see the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit. We have the Holy Spirit as a result of our new birth in Christ. We do not ask for that which we already possess.

Have you forgotten Pentecost?

Lu 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please, your assertion is problematic for your inept understanding of the Word of God. The Jews present? LUke chapter 11 in verse one says :
"Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”

the context of Luke Chapter 11 is prayer and God answering when you are persistent. The Lord Jesus in chapter 11 taught the DISCIPLES HOW TO PRAY. not just some local Jews standing on the corner. Jesus used parables to explain to the DISCIPLES the willingness of God answering prayer, and how to keep seeking God, asking God, and expecting God to answer. And to have the mindset that God is very better than an earthly evil father.

And HE will not withhold the Holy Spirit if you ask Him for the Holy Spirit.

 

[notuptome]

Please, your assertion is problematic for your inept understanding of the Word of God. The Jews present? LUke chapter 11 in verse one says :
"Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”

the context of Luke Chapter 11 is prayer and God answering when you are persistent. The Lord Jesus in chapter 11 taught the DISCIPLES HOW TO PRAY. not just some local Jews standing on the corner. Jesus used parables to explain to the DISCIPLES the willingness of God answering prayer, and how to keep seeking God, asking God, and expecting God to answer. And to have the mindset that God is very better than an earthly evil father.

And HE will not withhold the Holy Spirit if you ask Him for the Holy Spirit.

Still with the absurd personal attacks. You are the one claiming that the context is asking for the Holy Spirit. I contend that we do not ask for what we already possess. We can and indeed should pray like David.

Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

We are clean in the sense that we are saved but we need as the Lord Jesus taught to have our feet washed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shittim]

By the way, I really like the minions.
bless you

 

[CS1]

Still with the absurd personal attacks. You are the one claiming that the context is asking for the Holy Spirit. I contend that we do not ask for what we already possess. We can and indeed should pray like David.

Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

We are clean in the sense that we are saved but we need as the Lord Jesus taught to have our feet washed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No the verse word of Jesus says "ask for the Holy Spirit Luke chapter 11 says

1. Disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray
2. Jesus teaches them how to pray
3. Jesus continued to teach them how to ask when praying and be persistent
4. Jesus ends with Our heavenly Father will give us the Holy Spirit if we ask HIM.
5. parallel to this very chapter is in Matt chapter 6

There you go now you have been corrected for the first time in your life in the word of God.

 

[garee]

Are you reading the same Bible as me?

John 20:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.



How can this unequivocal pronouncement by Jesus be taken ANY other way but face value?

Literal face as if God was a man as us, or the breath of Spirit life?

Did the commandment "Receive the Holy Spirit" have an affect and they believed God or did those words return empty, faithless?

 

[shittim]

sorry meant to post that elsewhere

 

[garee]

Scripture surely says that if one asks to receive the Holy Ghost they will.

Of course they must first and foremost hear Him not seen. We walk by faith (the unseen eternal)

How could they repent (turn) being accustomed to not hearing his voice? If he does not first turn His born again children toward Himself how will they believe?. That work of turning is referred to "our first love" in the book of revelation.. The first hearing and believing work he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. He says we should offer the gospel our new tongue without murmuring and let it do its work of giving men ears to hear what he is saying to all the churches. (denominations)

 

[CS1]

Still with the absurd personal attacks. You are the one claiming that the context is asking for the Holy Spirit. I contend that we do not ask for what we already possess. We can and indeed should pray like David.

Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

We are clean in the sense that we are saved but we need as the Lord Jesus taught to have our feet washed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I love how you like to remove the words of Jesus which are authoritative and interject your own allegorical interpretation using PS51:10 LOL. That one verse overrides the words of Jesus He said in Luke 11? Funny LOl you have been corrected twice in one day.

 

[RickyZ]

T. If God has not put it upon you to believe this way, that is okay. .

If God has put it upon you to not believe His Word ... that is ok?

 

[RickyZ]

I am still having a problem understanding what is acceptable and not acceptable, rude and not rude response to others.

In a world of the chronically offended, just consider anything you have to say as rude and unacceptable, because I guarantee someone will have an objection to the gentlest of responses.

 

[RickyZ]

you can read my thoughts on the matter in that thread if you want to Wansvic

I respectfully ask you to please leave me out of your thoughts on water baptism

thanks

I wish that in addition to being able to ignore someone so you cant see their posts, we would be able to also block them from seeing ours.

 

[RickyZ]

1. It is noteworthy that Paul said that both tongues and prophesy would cease. So why focus on that which was to cease? There are a total of 23 gifts of the Spirit.

2. It is also noteworthy that out of all the epistles, there is only one which addresses PROBLEMS with the gift of tongues within the local church. If this was a critical doctrine, we would find it in almost every epistle, would we not?

I think verse 39 "do not forbid" and 36 to 38 "36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored" pretty much define this as critical doctrine.

 

[RickyZ]

A huge thank you to all those tirelessly combing through the bible to help us "understand" how little of it is worth applying or even reading.
At some point it will shrink into 5 or so pages.

The MRV gets smaller all the time

 

[RickyZ]

And it is also not discussed ore taught in Acts to other believers.
Nowhere i find the Statement: And all who receiving ore filled with the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues as proof for that.
But i find in 1. Cor. 12,30 Pauls statement that not all will receive the Gift of speaking in tongues.

There is some theory that the speaking in Acts was a sign, as opposed to the operation of a gift. Signs and gifts are different things, altho some people totally miss that point.

 

[notuptome]

No the verse word of Jesus says "ask for the Holy Spirit Luke chapter 11 says

1. Disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray
2. Jesus teaches them how to pray
3. Jesus continued to teach them how to ask when praying and be persistent
4. Jesus ends with Our heavenly Father will give us the Holy Spirit if we ask HIM.
5. parallel to this very chapter is in Matt chapter 6

There you go now you have been corrected for the first time in your life in the word of God.

Of course you do not get the meaning of the passage because you come to it with a preconceived answer. Jesus is promising that the disciples will receive what they ask of the Father when they pray to Him of their needs. The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to those who are saved when they are saved.

You refuse instruction as if you have no need of sound doctrine. I must pity you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger