Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[Wansvic]

Yes. In the context of the bible and the supernatural gifts as recorded in the time of Jesus and the apostles in the early congregations of believers, yes they have ceased. However, can God choose to heal a person now? Of course He can. He can do whatever He wants, when He wants. Healing etc is what we will receive in the resurrection. That’s part of our hope as Christians, ever lasting life with perfect health in a perfect new earth, free of evil people.

Where does the bible state that the gifts will cease prior to the fulfillment of the church's ministry? It does not. It states when that which is perfect is come; meaning Jesus. Spiritual gifts will no longer be needed when Jesus returns for the church; His bride.

 

[RickyZ]

Where does the bible state that the gifts will cease prior to the fulfillment of the church's ministry? It does not. It states when that which is perfect is come; meaning Jesus. Spiritual gifts will no longer be needed when Jesus returns for the church; His bride.

Exactly. We will no longer need healing when Christ returns and restores full health. Tongues will cease when Christ returns and restores a singular language. Knowledge will cease when Christ returns and we see fully that which we now see in part.

But people's idiocy? Not sure that will ever cease

 

[Wansvic]

Exactly. We will no longer need healing when Christ returns and restores full health. Tongues will cease when Christ returns and restores a singular language. Knowledge will cease when Christ returns and we see fully that which we now see in part.

But people's idiocy? Not sure that will ever cease

Unfortunately, oftentimes people just repeat something they heard or were actually taught in error. We are called to study and be a voice for truth not an echo. Will we ever know it all? Definitely not. Should we all be open to learning from each other? Definitely. But ultimately everything one hears must be evaluated and confirmed by God's word not by one's personal experience or lack thereof.

 

[garee]

Exactly. We will no longer need healing when Christ returns and restores full health. Tongues will cease when Christ returns and restores a singular language. Knowledge will cease when Christ returns and we see fully that which we now see in part.

But people's idiocy? Not sure that will ever cease

I don't think the bible teaches us that spiritual "unseen gifts" will ever cease even in our new spiritual bodies as incorruptible. . The various manner by which he did bring prophecy has ceased which would include the manner of tongues. . Prophecy as the living word God's perfect law has not. Why would a person desire to remove the seals and add to it after any manner as if it was a new revelation?

The question I would ask ? Is there a law or a parable missing by which we could know Him more intimately ? Or is the idea of "sign gifts" an old age coming anew oral tradition as those who Jesus referred to as an evil generation. Natural unconverted men and not spiritual men born of the Spirit of Christ. ... but those who seek after what the eyes see (the temporal) to confirm something as if it was the eternal. (walking by sight referred as upside down) .

The apostles like any born again believer played that kind of dangerous game at first ….. "Who is the greatest". (Luke 9) This was every time Jesus would seem to disappear every time he hid the unseen meaning. Teaching them to walk by faith after the right manner, as it is written. . .I think the same way (by faith believing God ) we can hear Him and seek after His approval. turning things right-side up . (heavenward the place of faith)

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[garee]

Unfortunately, oftentimes people just repeat something they heard or were actually taught in error. We are called to study and be a voice for truth not an echo. Will we ever know it all? Definitely not. Should we all be open to learning from each other? Definitely. But ultimately everything one hears must be evaluated and confirmed by God's word not by one's personal experience or lack thereof.

Amen.

In that parable in Mark not only was the sign metaphor (not the literal substance) like poison used to show believers will not fall for false prophecy, the poison of vipers(the god of this world) It will not effect those who do not go above all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura). But it as a new desire shall work in the new creature to offer the gospel by the tongue of God's prophecy, a new tongue to them. "Go out into the world" with His tongue (Word of God )It is the power that cast out the lying spirits and brings eternal life. .

Everyone of those metaphors apply to every believer . They follow after..... they are not a outward sign we are to seek after to confirm something .If taken literally they would confirm a person had no faith by which they could beleive God.... a dying hope.

Mark 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow (not lead) them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(Gospel) They shall take up serpents(false prophets) ; and if they drink any deadly thing,( false prophecy) it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.(By the power of Christ's faith working in them)

 

[Jimbone]

There are things I believe wholeheartedly. Studied prayed sought listened. Because of this some of my stands may seem inflexible.

Yet the over-riding thing in my mind is, I'm human. Stupid arrogant blind ignorant. And because of that, I always leave at least 10% chance that I may in fact be wrong.

So, what if we're wrong?

Like on the tongues thing, many of you know me to be a staunch proponent. But I do from time to time ask myself, what if I am wrong? Then what I've involved myself in is foolishness. And yes as a human I'm prone to foolishness. But then I also think, wow, even in my foolishness, God honored my prayers anyways - and caused what I was praying over to come thru to His glory despite my foolishness! Wow. Even in my foolishness HE came thru.

But if you believe they have ceased... what if you're wrong? You've just blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

So, before any of you continue in your blasphemes, I invite you to ask yourself,

what if you are wrong?

I agreed with you full wholeheartedly until the "what if you're wrong? You've just blasphemed the Holy Spirit." part. Really? You believe you can accidentally comment the unforgivable sin like that? I have to strongly disagree with that, but everything up to that part about a follower of Jesus committing this sin in this way, I agreed with. I think that's way too far.

The worst part I see about this issue is the division and lack of trust in God to lead His children to Himself, I don't believe as I did almost 6 years ago when I was born again, WAY different. We grow and need to leave room and trust in God for that. All we can do is the best we can to live our testimonies every moment, but we only have "right now", it's all about our actions "right now", We share what God has open our eyes to in love and even listen to them. You never know, you may be the one that learns something.

 

[garee]

I agreed with you full wholeheartedly until the "what if you're wrong? You've just blasphemed the Holy Spirit." part. Really? You believe you can accidentally comment the unforgivable sin like that?

I would offer that is more like another's private interpretation does not seem to agree with what you believe as a person bias (our fingerprint) your private interpretation or personal commentary. .

We can be wrong and that does not mean we have blasphemed the name of God. or would it make us false prophets.

False prophets bring false prophecy (blasphemy) as their own private interpretations and see no evil. Like said in Jerimiah 44 . "We refuse to hear the word of God. We will rather do whatsoever out own evil mouth says and see no evil in doing so".

It is the same kind of reasoning (walking by sight) the Catholics used during the 15th. century reformation. They accused the Protestants of having a private interpretations. denying their own private interpretation as a law of their fathers . That which make all things written in the law and the prophets without effect (sola scriptura)

Same battle not against flesh and blood today .

 

[wolfwint]

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:

Was this all not fullfilled from the 12, including Paul?

 

[Petercito]

Petercito, post: 3931056, member: 284931"]Tongues or languages were a sign for the Nation of Israel to repent. It is prophesied in the book of Isaiah which is quoted in and fulfilled in Acts. It was a particular message for the unbelieving Jews. The message was the same and understood by all the Jewish people from every Nation in their own language. It is not mindless babble or some mysterious language. Gifts of the Spirit of God we’re also a sign from God that Jesus was “The Anointed One” or The Christ”. Jesus was given the power and authority from His Father to do those miracles. Jesus gave His Apostles that authority as evidence or proof that they “the apostles” were eye witnesses of the the things Jesus did. The gifts of the spirit could only be passed on by the apostles, so once they died and thie last generation of the people who had been given any gifts by the apostles had died the gifts ceased with them. It is very clearly written in the bible if you bother to actually study and don’t have false preconceived ideas about what is being said


you know, I question why new members, in this case someone who only joined yesterday, believes that whatever they think they have to contribute, needs some edgy sarcasm with it. I refer to the bolded type above

news flash peter:

people here do study. yes, we actually do study. quite a number of us in fact, although I cannot speak for everyone of course

interestingly, many of us Bereans, once again having dilegently studied, are pleased to inform you that you are totally wrong and we have heard your 'position' on the gifts before

I can guarantee you that if you refrain from smearing people you do not know (unless of course you are an old member returning with a new name) with bigoted statements such as the above, you will receive polite replies

however, if you are here to pick a side, I am sure the other side will warmly welcome your cough cough comments written with the clear intention of appearing superior to those who are not cessationist in their view of the gifts

Well I am very sorry to have offended you with that statement you highlighted. So if you have studied so diligently then you cannot get around the fact that the gifts of the spirit were only imparted by the 12 apostles of Christ. The gift of languages was a specific message to the unbelieving Jews in an intelligible language not mindless blabber that I have seen in churches and once also spoke.
Once the apostles died and those they had imparted any gifts also died the gifts were no longer available. The gifts served their purpose.. it’s over.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well I am very sorry to have offended you with that statement you highlighted. So if you have studied so diligently then you cannot get around the fact that the gifts of the spirit were only imparted by the 12 apostles of Christ. The gift of languages was a specific message to the unbelieving Jews in an intelligible language not mindless blabber that I have seen in churches and once also spoke.
Once the apostles died and those they had imparted any gifts also died the gifts were no longer available. The gifts served their purpose.. it’s over.

you offended everyone who does not follow your beliefs'
'
don't make it personal

the Bible does not agree with you

 

[Petercito]

The problem with this post is that you are not rightly dividing the word of God. You provide misinformation as well as clump together scriptures that convey an entirely inaccurate picture of what the word actually says regarding the gift of the Holy Ghost required for one's spiritual rebirth. And Spiritual gifts given to the church body.

The pouring of the Holy Ghost into the bodies of the Jewish people present at Pentecost was not an experience exclusive to them. The biblical record states that the Gentiles had the same experience and received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues without anyone laying hands upon them (Acts 10:44-48). The Samaritans (Acts 8:14-18) as well as disciples from Ephesus (19:6) did receive the Holy Ghost with at least one specifically mentioning, and the other implying, they spoke in tongues after apostles laid their hands upon them. Therefore the biblical record attests to the truth that the gift of the Holy Ghost can be poured into someone spontaneously, upon the laying on of hands, or as Luke 11:13 conveys one can receive it upon asking the Lord for it.

Some quoted scriptures pertain to an individual's bodily infilling of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:8, 4:31-33, 8:18, 19:6) The actual gift of the Holy Ghost required for one's spiritual rebirth. And have nothing to do with the Spiritual gifts given by the Holy Ghost to further the churches mission to draw others who will become children of God.

As far as your assessment that one can ONLY receive a Spiritual gift by the laying on of one's hands is contradicted by the word. These gifts can be received through prayer. (1 Cor 14:13) Also, the Holy Spirit distributes them as He will. (1 Cor 12:7:11)

In addition, it makes no sense nor does the biblical record imply that Spiritual gifts would cease when the church's mission is still ongoing. Spiritual gifts will no longer be required when Jesus returns for His bride.

The purpose of tongues was a warning to the unbelieving Jews. It was a prophecy fulfilled. Read Isaiah 28, it is stated quite clearly.
The only time gifts were imparted was by the laying on of hands by the apostles of Jesus.
1 Cor 14:13 does not say you can receive a gift by prayer. The person already has the gift of languages and should pray about the interpretation of what they are saying. You are not reading the text very clearly.
Yes the spirit of the Father does distribute them but it was only through the 12 apostles of Jesus. Show me a scriptures where it took place without one of the apostles present. There are none.
(Rom 1:11) Paul had to travel to Rome to impart the gifts to the local assembly. If it was achieved by prayer then they would not have needed Paul.
Timothy also required the presence of Paul 2 Tim 1:6
The Ephesians church also Acts 19:6

 

[Petercito]

you offended everyone who does not follow your beliefs'
'
don't make it personal

the Bible does not agree with you

Well good luck with your twisting of the scriptures. It doesn’t agree with your beliefs. So good luck.

 

[UnderGrace]

The purpose of tongues was a warning to the unbelieving Jews. It was a prophecy fulfilled. Read Isaiah 28, it is stated quite clearly.
The only time gifts were imparted was by the laying on of hands by the apostles of Jesus.
1 Cor 14:13 does not say you can receive a gift by prayer. The person already has the gift of languages and should pray about the interpretation of what they are saying. You are not reading the text very clearly.
Yes the spirit of the Father does distribute them but it was only through the 12 apostles of Jesus. Show me a scriptures where it took place without one of the apostles present. There are none.
(Rom 1:11) Paul had to travel to Rome to impart the gifts to the local assembly. If it was achieved by prayer then they would not have needed Paul.
Timothy also required the presence of Paul 2 Tim 1:6
The Ephesians church also Acts 19:6

Petercito, with regards to "languages" in 1 Cor 14:13 this was indeed languages and these languages present in the congregation required "translation" as the word should be understood.

 

[Petercito]

Where does the bible state that the gifts will cease prior to the fulfillment of the church's ministry? It does not. It states when that which is perfect is come; meaning Jesus. Spiritual gifts will no longer be needed when Jesus returns for the church; His bride.

You have really missed the point of the scriptures haven’t you? The healings and the miraculous signs etc were signs for the nation of Israel to prove Jesus was the “Anointed One” and that the twelve were eye witnesses to the things Jesus had done. That was there only purpose. It was not for all time and for everyone.

 

[Petercito]

Petercito, with regards to "languages" in 1 Cor 14:13 this was indeed languages and these languages present in the congregation required "translation" as the word should be understood.

I never said it wasn’t languages. What are you saying.? You’re not making any sense.
Regardless of any of that, the point of the gifts is being missed by most people. It served its purpose. The bible is quite clear about that.
I was a part of Pentecostal churches for 20 years, I spoke in tongues, which is mindless babble, not an actual language. It’s a joke and demonic. It is Satan laughing at God and His people. It makes me sick to think I was deceived and allowed myself to be fooled into believing that garbage.

 

[UnderGrace]

I never said it wasn’t languages. What are you saying.? You’re not making any sense.
Regardless of any of that, the point of the gifts is being missed by most people. It served its purpose. The bible is quite clear about that.
I was a part of Pentecostal churches for 20 years, I spoke in tongues, which is mindless babble, not an actual language. It’s a joke and demonic. It is Satan laughing at God and His people. It makes me sick to think I was deceived and allowed myself to be fooled into believing that garbage.

Sorry, I am agreeing with you LOL

What I am trying to state is 1 Cor 14 is not about the miraculous gift of languages witnessed in Acts, it is about earthly languages that required a translator.

 

[Petercito]

Sorry, I am agreeing with you LOL

What I am trying to state is 1 Cor 14 is not about the miraculous gift of languages witnessed in Acts, it is about earthly languages that required a translator.

Ah I’m sorry, cool. That’s funny,,

 

[UnderGrace]

I never said it wasn’t languages. What are you saying.? You’re not making any sense.
Regardless of any of that, the point of the gifts is being missed by most people. It served its purpose. The bible is quite clear about that.
I was a part of Pentecostal churches for 20 years, I spoke in tongues, which is mindless babble, not an actual language. It’s a joke and demonic. It is Satan laughing at God and His people. It makes me sick to think I was deceived and allowed myself to be fooled into believing that garbage.

It must be hard to know you were deceived

 

[Petercito]

It must be hard to know you were deceived

Well the bright side is I have learned a lot and now know a lot more truth and understand the bible a lot better than before.
My beliefs are in a very small minority maybe one percent of Christianity. From what I have seen in almost every church is false doctrine upon false doctrine. People accept what they are taught and don’t really study the bible for themselves to find out the truth.
Not only that the English translation of the bible is full of errors which give more cover to some false beliefs.

 

[Wansvic]

You have really missed the point of the scriptures haven’t you? The healings and the miraculous signs etc were signs for the nation of Israel to prove Jesus was the “Anointed One” and that the twelve were eye witnesses to the things Jesus had done. That was there only purpose. It was not for all time and for everyone.

Paul's description of Spiritual gifts was addressed to the Corinthians. The Corinth church was comprised primarily of Gentiles. The gifts were endowed capabilities for service to the NT church. And Jews and Gentiles alike were edified through the operation of the gifts. Interesting.