Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[7seasrekeyed]

I always wonder how one's belief in the necessity of water baptism is considered legalistic. Water baptism was devised by God and introduced by John the Baptist as a means for remission of sin for the NT church; it is clearly separate from methods found in the OT law.

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; Luke 3:3

I will say this though with regards to my last post to you and the fact you cannot see why you sniped at me

why are you going down the path of this baptism obsession again?

you have done this in several threads and yet you state others have a problem with it

you are literally FORCING people to respond to you but that is fine because you say please

you know, I might have some rough edges sometimes, but at least I don't fool myself about what I do

start your own thread if that is all you can talk about

yes

I am somewhat fed up with it but I wouldn't have said a thing if you had not decided I needed some of your 'cough cough' 'correction

 

[CS1]

The apostles did what Jesus told them to do. They consistently used the name of Jesus when they administered water baptisms as revealed in the word. We see this in Peter's and Paul's actions and comments. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16, 1 Cor 1:13-16, Rom 6:3-5)

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:15-16
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Cor 1:13-16
… were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Eph 3:14-15
For this, cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

the context o the "In the name of "mean we are doing this BY HIS authority to draw a distinction from 1. John Baptism 2. bring attention to the resurrected Lord. I will address each verse you used too. But not right now.

 

[PennEd]

Wolfwint,go to this site and read,read,read.
Make that doubt leave you.
http://www.smithwigglesworth.com

Please! Not the Wigglesworth stuff again.

There is NO instance of ANYONE healing people through assault or violence. Therefore this guy is either a fraud, or acting under a different spirit than the H.S.

 

[CS1]

Please provide the records where people administered water baptism using the words in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You can not there are none.

If Jesus meant to use the titles the apostles would have done so. They did not as witnessed by the word. This is just fact.

it is not facts, the baptism in water recorded in the Book of Acts does not provide the full context of 1. water. 2 that of the Holy Spirit. You can not take three verses and build a method of for the ordinances of the church NOR can you omit what Jesus said to do in Matthew 28.

 

[CS1]

Please! Not the Wigglesworth stuff again.

There is NO instance of ANYONE healing people through assault or violence. Therefore this guy is either a fraud, or acting under a different spirit than the H.S.

his methods were not conventional there is historical documentation God raised the dead using him. and healings too.

 

[CS1]

The apostles did what Jesus told them to do. They consistently used the name of Jesus when they administered water baptisms as revealed in the word. We see this in Peter's and Paul's actions and comments. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16, 1 Cor 1:13-16, Rom 6:3-5)

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:15-16
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Cor 1:13-16
… were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Eph 3:14-15
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

what I find interesting, in the verses you used, you did not notices that those who received the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:44- 48 were baptized after ( with water ) being saved. You listed Acts 10:44-48 up at the top but you did not post the full verses as you did the other ones why?

If Baptism in the Name of Jesus is as essential as you say the Apostles made it, why would one be filled with the Holy Spirit and not be saved?

 

[wolfwint]

Wolfwint,go to this site and read,read,read.
Make that doubt leave you.
http://www.smithwigglesworth.com

I asked when do you cast out a demon!

 

[CS1]

I asked when do you cast out a demon!

LOL anytime they are manifested and you are prompted by the Holy Spirit to do so.

 

[Wansvic]

oh yes I know

you just thought you would correct me since you consider anyone wrong who does not agree with you as you have illustrated over and over

your comments are also visible. please get over yourself. this is not a hill to die on and it would help if you see how you have sniped at me because of your beliefs

I asked you to stop the discussion on baptism with me because not only do you hold the belief that baptism is a part of salvation...which I certainly do not..but you also say there is a comparison with OT circumcision which is something I never heard of before

so, since I never heard of such a thing before, I did some research and I found certain denominations do hold to that opinion and it seems nothing and no one is going to show them different. that is basically how you post here while saying you are polite but must keep doing what you do. I don't care but some people find that obnoxious as you just won't quit and think you have God's direction in what you do even if other people try hard to point out the errors of your stance on these matters

I guess you do not see that in telling me you find me sad and saying everyone sees my posts (like only my posts stand out) you are actually putting yourself in what you consider a superior position

it's more than a little transparent and there are people here that whose posts are far far worse than anything I post but they didn't tell you to leave them alone like I did

And whether you accept it or not that is what I find sad. (see how hypocritical that sounds when someone else says it?)

now please be an adult and move along. the discussion is over as far as I am concerned

You make my point yet again.

 

[Wansvic]

it is not facts, the baptism in water recorded in the Book of Acts does not provide the full context of 1. water. 2 that of the Holy Spirit. You can not take three verses and build a method of for the ordinances of the church NOR can you omit what Jesus said to do in Matthew 28.

We are told to study and compare scripture. With the witness of 2-3 scriptures a concept is established. (2 Cor 13:1)
There is no omission of what Jesus said. The use of Jesus' name in water baptism lines-up with what Jesus actually said: baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

The biblical record shows the name of Jesus was used consistently.

 

[Waggles]

I got the impresion that this referred to the body as a whole. One part castng out devils, another speaking with new tongues. The idea of the body consisting of different body parts is Biblical, yes?

Not concerning these signs shall follow them that believe - Mark 16
what you are referring to are the gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed within the Spirit-filled church - 1Corinthians 12 & 14

 

[CS1]

We are told to study and compare scripture. With the witness of 2-3 scriptures a concept is established. (2 Cor 13:1)
There is no omission of what Jesus said. The use of Jesus' name in water baptism lines-up with what Jesus actually said: baptize in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

The biblical record shows the name of Jesus was used consistently.

here is the issue that many do not see One Jesus is always authoritative when HE speaks. always. you do not understand what "in the name means " and how does that translate contextually with what Jesus said to do. I do not think the Apostles would change what Jesus said to do. the only edifying answer is not you have to be baptized IN Jesus name ONLY which is never said in the word of God.

The answer would be BOTH are correct. baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or In the Name of Jesus or what many of those who elitize scripture fail to see the full statement

I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus or by the authority given me by the Lord Jesus Christ Into the Father and of the Son and in the Holy Ghost. the phrase " In the name of the Lord Jesus " is identifying with Christ authority to do so. This too fulfills the word John the Baptist said in the gospel of John chapter one of who would be Baptizing in the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus is the one who gave HIS authority to the Apostle s to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waggles]

God does not deceive but we can deceive ourselves

Yes cessationists do this to themselves.
Sad really.

 

[Wansvic]

what I find interesting, in the verses you used, you did not notices that those who received the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:44- 48 were baptized after ( with water ) being saved. You listed Acts 10:44-48 up at the top but you did not post the full verses as you did the other ones why?

If Baptism in the Name of Jesus is as essential as you say the Apostles made it, why would one be filled with the Holy Spirit and not be saved?

No reason. I just copied scripture references and pasted lists of scriptures pertaining to a specific topic from separate files.

I can copy and paste the entire contents if you like.

 

[CS1]

Yes cessationists do this to themselves.
Sad really.

save your insults

 

[CS1]

No reason. I just copied scripture references and pasted lists of scriptures pertaining to a specific topic from separate files.

I can copy and paste the entire contents if you like.

LOL you can't paste a context, the question you failed to answer is the point. please don't dance.


I asked you this :
If Baptism in the Name of Jesus is as essential as you say the Apostles made it, why would one be filled with the Holy Spirit and not be saved?

 

[CS1]

Yes cessationists do this to themselves.
Sad really.

trying to have a good conversation and you need to add foolishly attacks just answer the questions or don't

 

[Wansvic]

here is the issue that many do not see One Jesus is always authoritative when HE speaks. always. you do not understand what "in the name means " and how does that translate contextually with what Jesus said to do. I do not think the Apostles would change what Jesus said to do. the only edifying answer is not you have to be baptized IN Jesus name ONLY which is never said in the word of God.

The answer would be BOTH are correct. baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or In the Name of Jesus or what many of those who elitize scripture fail to see the full statement

I baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus or by the authority given me by the Lord Jesus Christ Into the Father and of the Son and in the Holy Ghost. the phrase " In the name of the Lord Jesus " is identifying with Christ authority to do so. This too fulfills the word John the Baptist said in the gospel of John chapter one of who would be Baptizing in the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus is the one who gave HIS authority to the Apostle s to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

If it doesn't matter how one is water baptized why does the biblical record not reflect that? The scriptures are consistent regarding the use of Jesus' name.

 

[Waggles]

you know what Waggles?
the Bible does actually say...as recorded by Paul, that not everyone speaks in tongues
that is what the Bible states yet you disagree
it is pretty arrogant, IMO, that you put a thumbs down on that post because you think differently
we agree on the gifts and yet you go and put a thumbs down
you put a thumbs down on a post that states exactly what the Bible says
you go BEYOND scripture and that is when the trouble begins.
people have created cults that same way
Paul would raise an eyebrow at you and probably correct you.

How wrong can you be. Paul does not contradict Jesus.
Paul is clearly writing about the operation of the spiritual gifts in the body of Christ - 1Corinthians 14
some, not all, shall speak in an unknown tongue; some, not all, shall give interpretation; some, not all, shall give prophecy.
Some shall receive the gift of faith to exercise the gift of healing; some shall receive the gift of knowledge.
The Bible unequivocally, no let's be more forthright, Jesus unequivocally says that believers of the gospel shall speak in a new tongue as one of many signs that shall follow believers of the gospel.
Which gospel? The Catholic gospel? The Lutheran gospel? The Greek Orthodox gospel? Your gospel?
NO: none of these but the one and only gospel preached and delivered by Jesus and the Apostles - the first century church of
signs, wonders and power.
By the way a Bible obedient Pentecostal church is not a cult - shame on you.

Further as you are so imbued in truth your congregation would be operating the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - diversity of
tongues followed by interpretation; followed by the gifts of prophecy, at every meeting.
Then you would be taught by God directly knowledge and wisdom concerning praying in the Spirit and tongues in the life of
every believer.

 

[Jimbone]

When we talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit we fall under a new set of rules. If I tell a vegetable-eater that eating vegetables is no longer valid and of the devil, I'm just being a fool and will suffer a fool's fate. But when someone attributes a bonafide act of the Holy Spirit to demons, they have now become ensnared in a trap the Bible says they cannot get out of. That's why cessationists MUST be careful what they say. Believe they've ceased, whatever. Call a legitimate act as being of satan and scripture is CLEAR about your fate. That is why this one subject, out of all the others, is critically different.

Expose the falsehoods, expose the fakes, but DO NOT cast that net over the entire kit and caboodle. Because that is a far far more serious crime than calling a veggie muncher wrong.

Well I'm just saying this frantic, accusing, divisive way I see you and others approach bears lkittle,

Like the word of God,tongues is not one dimensional.
I can sing,pray,prophesy, and intercede in tongues.

Speaking in tongues and then interpreting is what is known as "tracking with God"
A big horn sheep,tracks with his fron and back feet. His back feet will always track to the same spot as his front feet.
That is why "he maketh my feet like hinds feet" means more in the spirit,than just mentally thinking i am more nimble or something.

That's well and good, but where does it "SAY" that in the text? It doesn't, you're adding to it.