BORN AGAIN AND AGAIN

seed_time_harvest · Jun 1, 2019

Wall said:

I know what the “many” claim about being born again. So are there 2 meanings to being born again? According to scriptures ive found being "born again" happens when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye. Thats when our corruptible puts on the incorruptible. This only makes sense because we are givin new bodies before entering the kingdom

PHIL.3 [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:[21] WHO SHALL CHANGE OUR VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So is there 2 meanings to being "born again"? Or is one not scriptural?

John 4:23-24
King James Version

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 1, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

defiantly not scriptural,you prayed about this and GOD told you something that was contrary to HIS WORD?
Are you saying that GOD didn't make our spirits perfect?
I know that by the mercies of GOD that we should present our bodies a LIVING sacrifice which Is reasonable.
IMO,you are confusing the Spirit with the flesh.
What Is Spirit IS Spirit and what Is flesh Is flesh.

KelbyofGod · Jun 1, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

The scriptures say we need to be renewed day by day, and I agree. How is that unscriptural?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Guojing · Jun 2, 2019

Wall said:

I know what the “many” claim about being born again. So are there 2 meanings to being born again? According to scriptures ive found being "born again" happens when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye. Thats when our corruptible puts on the incorruptible. This only makes sense because we are givin new bodies before entering the kingdom

PHIL.3 [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:[21] WHO SHALL CHANGE OUR VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So is there 2 meanings to being "born again"? Or is one not scriptural?

When you accept Jesus's finished work on the cross, you are reborn spiritually. Your spirit is the only part of you now that is perfect.

But you are a Trinity, you are a spirit, you possess a soul, and you live in a body. Your job now is to renew your mind, which is your soul. Your body is decaying day by day.

When the rapture comes, which is what 1 Cor 15 is saying, you will be given a brand new body, which is the same body Jesus had after he resurrected from the dead. Your mind will also know all things then.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 2, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

Renewed day by day means by the mercy of GOD present your bodies a Living sacrifice.
The spirits of Just men was made perfect so why would a believer need to be born again after they are born again?

Hebrews 12:23-24
King James Version

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Romans 12:1-2
King James Version

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

KelbyofGod · Jun 3, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

As an fyi, The spirits of just men made perfect are those saints that have died in the Lord. At this time, we're not perfected. we're a work in process.

That's why he gives the gifts of the spirit...so we can grow up into that perfect man.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 3, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

You continue to confuse the body which we are In the process of renewing with the spirit that was made perfect when you were born again.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 3, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

1 John 4:17
King James Version

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

tourist · Jun 3, 2019

Wall said:

This is called transformation and is not being born again.

KelbyofGod · Jun 3, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

You forgot verse 18.

1 John 4:18 KJV
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · Jun 3, 2019

As was said earlier... it's not that he didn't do his part perfectly. He always does his part perfectly. It's US that needs to learn to KEEP that perfect thing perfectly...which is why he gives the Holy Ghost and his word. The word to renew our mind, the Holy Ghost to renew our spirit.

That's one reason why it then says in Jude to KEEP yourselves in the love of God by praying in the Holy Ghost -(Jude 20 &21). (Which also happens to mean in tongues per 1 Corinthians 14: 2, 4&14)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

seed_time_harvest · Jun 3, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

So then you are saying that GOD does not make the spirits of just men perfect.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 3, 2019

By the way GODs WORD will harmonize with any scripture In context.GOD Is not the author of confusion.

KelbyofGod · Jun 4, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

I didn't say that at all. I'm saying we're not there yet...we're working towards it as we spend time with God.

KelbyofGod · Jun 4, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

Of course. And the need to progress toward that goal is why God gives the spiritual gifts:

Ephesians 4:11-13 KJV
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I don't think you're going to say that all (or even you personally) have grown up unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

seed_time_harvest · Jun 4, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

KelbyofGod · Jun 5, 2019

It's possible that we're talking about different things. And it's possible that we're saying the same thing from different angles. And it's possible I'm wrong.

I'd be Ok with that because that's when I get to learn.

I know there's an incorruptible thing given to us when we receive the Holy Ghost. That piece is pure, undefiled, sinless. There's also a difference between having permanently received the Holy Ghost, and being FILLED with the Holy Ghost. That's what I'm referring to... not just having the Holy Ghost but being FULL of the Holy Ghost. Filled to the point where there's no room for sin. My understanding is that God fills us with the Holy Ghost when we first receive the outpouring, but we don't stay FULL forever...as evidenced by our ability to return to sin.

Any person who has room for sin in their life is currently not FULL of the Holy Ghost, even if they're baptized in the Holy Ghost (have received it permanently). When a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, amazing things seem to happen...and sin isn't one of those things. We wouldn't need to "build ourselves up, praying in the Holy Ghost" if we were singularly and permanently at a state of FULLy prepared.

Whether you consider "renew yourself daily" to mean renewing of the flesh, or renewing of the spirit...that's what I'm referring to when I say we must be born again. We couldn't be re-newed if we hadn't first been newed. Re-born and re-newed are more alike than you might think.

At least that's my current understanding.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

FollowHisSteps · Jun 5, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

It's possible that we're talking about different things. And it's possible that we're saying the same thing from different angles. And it's possible I'm wrong.

I'd be Ok with that because that's when I get to learn.

I know there's an incorruptible thing given to us when we receive the Holy Ghost. That piece is pure, undefiled, sinless. There's also a difference between having permanently received the Holy Ghost, and being FILLED with the Holy Ghost. That's what I'm referring to... not just having the Holy Ghost but being FULL of the Holy Ghost. Filled to the point where there's no room for sin. My understanding is that God fills us with the Holy Ghost when we first receive the outpouring, but we don't stay FULL forever...as evidenced by our ability to return to sin.

Any person who has room for sin in their life is currently not FULL of the Holy Ghost, even if they're baptized in the Holy Ghost (have received it permanently). When a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, amazing things seem to happen...and sin isn't one of those things. We wouldn't need to "build ourselves up, praying in the Holy Ghost" if we were singularly and permanently at a state of FULLy prepared.

Whether you consider "renew yourself daily" to mean renewing of the flesh, or renewing of the spirit...that's what I'm referring to when I say we must be born again. We couldn't be re-newed if we hadn't first been newed. Re-born and re-newed are more alike than you might think.

At least that's my current understanding.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Born again

We are brought into the Kingdom.
Each day we praise and breath in the Spirit of God into our hearts.
It is the life we have and lead, but as a child is born once and breaths everyday to stay alive so do we.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 5, 2019

KelbyofGod said:

I know what you mean but renewing Is talking about your mind which Is from the mind which Is part of the body but the INCORRUPTIBLE seed Is from GOD which Is sealed at salvation.

After the Spirits of just men Is made perfect It Is sealed ,then by the mercy of GOD we should present our bodies which Includes your mind a LIVING sacrifice which Is a reasonable thing to do ,not to conform to the world's ways but be transformed by the renewing of your mind so that you can Prove what Is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-23
King James Version

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
+++
The part here about soul Is talking about your mind not the Spirit which was born of INCORRUPTIBLE seed.If a person has to renew their spirit then they would be saying they were not born of Incorruptible seed but their spirit can be corrupted and needs to be In continuous progressive sanctification.Continuous progressive sanctification Is talking about renewing your mind to match the new creation you have become.

There Is a teaching about Spirit,Soul And Body by Andrew Wommack that you can find//search on YouTube or at his site.
awmi.net

KelbyofGod · Jun 5, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

Thanks. I hope to check out that video when I get home.

You appear to have a good deal of discretion to have noticed that renewing is the word most often associated with the mind (and cleansing of the flesh) in scriptures talking about rebirth. (I actually want to go reread them now.

)

The word more associated with spiritual rebirth is regeneration.

There are two areas of need in rebirth, whether the initial "born again" most people are talking about (which is pretty much an entirely different kind of birth than our first, fleshly birth), or the meaning of "born again" that I'm referring to now (which is a restoration / return to / maintenance of that state).

There's the need of washing away of the old (that defiles)....and the need of adding/creating the new.

Consider the first time this happens...the initial born again that most people are talking about:

When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, and told him he needed to be born again, he didn't say there was only one piece...He mentioned two... 1. Born of water. 2. Born of the spirit.

Born of water is the cleansing portion.
Born of Spirit is the adding/creating portion.

Born of water happens at water baptism.
Born of the Spirit happens at spiritual baptism.

Born of water is the washing away (remission) of sins from us.
Born of Spirit is the adding/creating of the Holy Ghost in us.

If you look closely, slowly, carefully (and willing to let go of doctrines of men suggesting otherwise) you can see both pieces in the examples given to us in the bible. (Remember, it's safe to look with an open mind and heart because if it isn't in there it wouldn't be available to be found.)

Both John (the baptist) and Jesus taught and practiced water baptism. (John 4: 1&2) We know this.

But the cleansing baptism wasn't the only kind that was needed so Jesus also provides the spiritual baptism, which started on the day of Pentecost and continues (as does water baptism) unto this day. Check it out in the accounts of spiritual baptism....water baptism was still necessary and vice versa. Acts 2: 38&39, Acts 8:12-17, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:2-6.

One is not a substitute for the other. Both pieces are necessary.

So it is with the restoration / return to / maintenance of type of born again that I mentioned. The cleansing of/by the word (reading) is necessary AND the renewing of/by the Holy Ghost (prayer) is also necessary.

Hope that makes sense because it's not as easy to review and thoroughly proofread what is typed on my phone.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

BORN AGAIN AND AGAIN

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