Does salvation require repentance and perseverance?

[Word_Swordsman]

Yep he was. But that is not applicable to your theory.

Lucifer was not lost. Unable to save himself. Then have Jesus pay for his sins. And offer to you ETERNAL life if you just get on your knees and trust him.

Unlike the god you want him to be. God does not go back on his promises. He makes them, He paid for them, and he keeps them.

Once Saved Always Saved is a lie from Satan. An angel, intimately knowing God, could depart from Him, and so is any person who has believed and trusted. Where does it say "get on your knees"? That's a religious tradition of men. The Word of Faith is simple.
Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The Way of Christ is the Word of Faith. We must live by faith all our days, knowing and believing His word, confessing His name before others and in prayer. Not just once at age 13, perhaps having an immature understanding of the commitment God requires, then live however you see fit in your own eyes. Worse, trusting in an infant baptism that gets one only a certificate for the baby book.

Jude 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I continue to note the absence of respect for my earlier posts of 2 Peter 1, what to do to prevent falling from grace. It isn't simply excused as a situation of not having really believed. To fall requires having been a Christian, then recanting by word orfconfession or deterioration due to inactivity, like when an organism stops growing, it is dying.

I had much more to add but apparently long posts are ignored, other than cherry picking a line here and there.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Lol. If I can lose salvation. I am not really saved. I am what you call an unsecure relationship. Where my spouse (in this case christ) can leave at any time, I am not only forced to live a miserable life trying my best to please him knowing he can walk away. But i have to also go outside of him and set up to make sure my future is secure. In case he does leave.

If you think you have hope in an insecure salvation. You are misled.

It's not Jesus who leaves. It's the Judas's of His acquaintance, a fully functional apostle, a man who walked with Jesus, witnessed the miracles, heard the sermons first hand. At the last Jesus just didn't quite fulfill his expectations. I never said or even hinted that Jesus walks out on anyone. That idea came from Satan, so stop listening to his voice. He lets the doubters go hang themselves, like God let the Hebrews perish in the wilderness over their complaining.

There is nothing you can do, having known Jesus, then departing, to return, for there remains no more sacrifice. So whatever backup system you have in mind, you are better off investing in survival foods and goods to make it through the tribulation, dodging 100 pound hail stones and giant scorpion stings, experiencing real global warming.

If Peter was wrong in 2 Peter 1, then none of us has hold of the truth, for he, Paul, and other anointed men of God picked up where Jesus left off. According to them, ignoring their preaching damns you. I have hope in a living, active salvation plan that requires my diligence to keep following Jesus in good times and bad. My security is with Him, not with ignorant people desiring to be counted as disciples of Christ, who still don't know the way, and how to stay on it.

If you desire to drive from Texas to Israel, following signs along the highway will leave you plunging into the ocean. Follow the Word of Faith, all of it. Don't be misled.

When Jesus awoke each morning with His face set for a destination, the disciples had to do the same or be left behind. Letting Jesus get too far ahead easily would cause one to be lost in the wilderness before an hope of reconnecting to Jesus.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

How can a person be saved if they have to stop sinning? Even paul said he had not made it yet at the end of his life. What makes you think you have?

Jesus taught a very vital New Covenant condition of salvation.
Luke 13:1-5 (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Sin by sin I learn them by unction of the Holy Spirit, then stop doing those things. The process is endless, and so is the pursuit of perfection of Christ, as Paul noted. Total perfection is only possible when Jesus returns without sin.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Hi Beckworth, so, salvation by imitation? How would that work exactly, especially if you consider what verses like this one have to say about non-believers .. 1 Corinthians 2:14?

The thing is, my question wasn't actually about how a non-believer can become a Christian, it was concerned with how a Christian can know that they have really and truly come to possess eternal life .. e.g. John 5:24, how they can have assurance that they are who they claim to be (that they have truly been "born again", made "His workmanship", made a wholly "new creature" in Christ).

As the Lord commanded us to do through the pen of the Apostle Paul:

2 Corinthians 13​

5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?​

The question is, how do we do that? How do we test or examine ourselves to make sure that we are truly in the faith? What evidence do we look for to demonstrate/validate/justify our claim, and prove that what we believe about ourselves is true?

How would you go about proving that you are the Christian that you claim to be to me, for instance

Thanks!

~Deut

Add to that 2 Peter 1. There's plenty of steps to perfection, (being well equipped), those steps continually repeated, unto perfection to the degree flesh allows. Going beyond requires we leave this world.

If you sit in a bus terminal waiting for your connection, what will you do? The disheveled person next to you says "I'm just cursed as usual." Do you remain silent, lacking confidence to engage in a discussion? No. If you are a Christian, therefore an ambassador for Christ, you engage in discussion. You have the answers because you have learned the scriptures, and have the Holy Spirit, and are baptized in Him, so lack nothing. You are overflowing with grace! You have the answers. Yeah!

AH, but you then doubt. "I don't know all the solutions, so ought not speak up. " says your mind.

Foolish Christian! Grow up in the word of faith! Demonstrate in real life, not just online, that you have what you ought to possess.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once Saved Always Saved is a lie from Satan. An angel, intimately knowing God, could depart from Him, and so is any person who has believed and trusted. Where does it say "get on your knees"? That's a religious tradition of men. The Word of Faith is simple.
Romans 10:8-13 (KJV)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The Way of Christ is the Word of Faith. We must live by faith all our days, knowing and believing His word, confessing His name before others and in prayer. Not just once at age 13, perhaps having an immature understanding of the commitment God requires, then live however you see fit in your own eyes. Worse, trusting in an infant baptism that gets one only a certificate for the baby book.

Jude 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I continue to note the absence of respect for my earlier posts of 2 Peter 1, what to do to prevent falling from grace. It isn't simply excused as a situation of not having really believed. To fall requires having been a Christian, then recanting by word orfconfession or deterioration due to inactivity, like when an organism stops growing, it is dying.

I had much more to add but apparently long posts are ignored, other than cherry picking a line here and there.

ETERNAL LIFE is eternal

Call it OSAS. Call it the eternal promise of God. Call it whatever you want

Legalism (what you teach) is the lie from hell. It started with Cain, who killed able, because God accepted his offering. It was very powerful in the jewish group who killed christ, and sadly It contaminated the church also

You want to work your way to heaven amd think God will accept your bloody rags as payment for sin. Keep trying/

You will fail. Mark GODS WORD on that!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not Jesus who leaves. It's the Judas's of His acquaintance, a fully functional apostle, a man who walked with Jesus, witnessed the miracles, heard the sermons first hand. At the last Jesus just didn't quite fulfill his expectations. I never said or even hinted that Jesus walks out on anyone. That idea came from Satan, so stop listening to his voice. He lets the doubters go hang themselves, like God let the Hebrews perish in the wilderness over their complaining.

There is nothing you can do, having known Jesus, then departing, to return, for there remains no more sacrifice. So whatever backup system you have in mind, you are better off investing in survival foods and goods to make it through the tribulation, dodging 100 pound hail stones and giant scorpion stings, experiencing real global warming.

If Peter was wrong in 2 Peter 1, then none of us has hold of the truth, for he, Paul, and other anointed men of God picked up where Jesus left off. According to them, ignoring their preaching damns you. I have hope in a living, active salvation plan that requires my diligence to keep following Jesus in good times and bad. My security is with Him, not with ignorant people desiring to be counted as disciples of Christ, who still don't know the way, and how to stay on it.

If you desire to drive from Texas to Israel, following signs along the highway will leave you plunging into the ocean. Follow the Word of Faith, all of it. Don't be misled.

When Jesus awoke each morning with His face set for a destination, the disciples had to do the same or be left behind. Letting Jesus get too far ahead easily would cause one to be lost in the wilderness before an hope of reconnecting to Jesus.

1. You can’t leave God, As the OT prophet said, where ever I go, there you are.

God said he would NEVER leave nor forsake you. That means no matter how hard you try, You can not walk away from God

2. Which leads to the other question. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO LEAVE?

There is only one correct answer. You never found him to begin with,

Those who have been saved, Given every spiritual blessing, Seen his powerful work in their lives, and got to know him, Would NEVER want to leave.

John 6 jesus said whoever believes in him will

1. Never hunger or thirst
2. Never die
3. Live forever
4. Has passed from death to life
5. WILL be ressurected

If salvation can be lost. God lied. PERIOD!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus taught a very vital New Covenant condition of salvation.
Luke 13:1-5 (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Sin by sin I learn them by unction of the Holy Spirit, then stop doing those things. The process is endless, and so is the pursuit of perfection of Christ, as Paul noted. Total perfection is only possible when Jesus returns without sin.

Yep he did

in john 3, Jhn 4 and John 6. Believe in him, and you will have eternal life

Whoever believes has life. Whoever does not believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides in him (you can not have faith in God unless you repent)

Work all you want, But if you do, your under law. And the law requires you to be perfect. You better have never sinned, even once.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

ETERNAL LIFE is eternal

Call it OSAS. Call it the eternal promise of God. Call it whatever you want

Legalism (what you teach) is the lie from hell. It started with Cain, who killed able, because God accepted his offering. It was very powerful in the jewish group who killed christ, and sadly It contaminated the church also

You want to work your way to heaven amd think God will accept your bloody rags as payment for sin. Keep trying/

You will fail. Mark GODS WORD on that!

I will rely upon the instructions of the apostles of Christ and their take on what Jesus taught, not whatever it is you are proposing. I don't have a middle name "Failure". Jesus laid out my route to Heaven, so I will treasure the Word of God continually all my days. Don't be sidetracked by unbelievers. Many they are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will rely upon the instructions of the apostles of Christ and their take on what Jesus taught, not whatever it is you are proposing. I don't have a middle name "Failure". Jesus laid out my route to Heaven, so I will treasure the Word of God continually all my days. Don't be sidetracked by unbelievers. Many they are.

Your relying on your works, feel free.. Its your eternity at stake

I will rely on God, his power and his work. Eternity is to long for me to rely on how many works, or what works, or anything that I do. I am just a human, who i guilty and deserving of judgment.

End of story.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

1. You can’t leave God, As the OT prophet said, where ever I go, there you are.

God said he would NEVER leave nor forsake you. That means no matter how hard you try, You can not walk away from God

2. Which leads to the other question. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO LEAVE?

There is only one correct answer. You never found him to begin with,

Those who have been saved, Given every spiritual blessing, Seen his powerful work in their lives, and got to know him, Would NEVER want to leave.

John 6 jesus said whoever believes in him will

1. Never hunger or thirst
2. Never die
3. Live forever
4. Has passed from death to life
5. WILL be ressurected

If salvation can be lost. God lied. PERIOD!

It's a decision we have to make daily. I made a decision many decades ago to save any gold I came to possess. I worked for the US Forest Service and found a rich deposit under an Oregon waterfall. I gathered as much as I desired, then got reassigned. I failed in that commitment, sold it when its value rose so high. Had I held it I would be a billionaire. People do Jesus like that in many ways.

My point is whatever someone thinks about Jesus can change later in life. Many diminish Him in many subtle ways.

According tp Paul in Hebrews, some do forsake the wonder experienced in Christ, then go aside back into sin. That possibility is expressed repeatedly in scriptures. You are in grave denial. Repent, or perish.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a decision we have to make daily. I made a decision many decades ago to save any gold I came to possess. I worked for the US Forest Service and found a rich deposit under an Oregon waterfall. I gathered as much as I desired, then got reassigned. I failed in that commitment, sold it when its value rose so high. Had I held it I would be a billionaire. People do Jesus like that in many ways.

My point is whatever someone thinks about Jesus can change later in life. Many diminish Him in many subtle ways.

According tp Paul in Hebrews, some do forsake the wonder experienced in Christ, then go aside back into sin. That possibility is expressed repeatedly in scriptures. You are in grave denial. Repent, or perish.

You can’t leave god man, God is omnipresent

You do not even understand God, how can you say you are saved by him?

I pray if your married. You do not put that kind of pressure on your spouse. What hope would she have?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Your relying on your works, feel free.. Its your eternity at stake

I will rely on God, his power and his work. Eternity is to long for me to rely on how many works, or what works, or anything that I do. I am just a human, who i guilty and deserving of judgment.

End of story.

You are free to sin on and on, thinking you have an eternal ticket to Heaven based on some few verses you like, ignoring the ones that protect you. God will allow it, but with great sadness. If you are still deserving of judgment, then you have not judged yourself according to Jesus, and will perish by that condition.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

You can’t leave god man, God is omnipresent

You do not even understand God, how can you say you are saved by him?

I pray if your married. You do not put that kind of pressure on your spouse. What hope would she have?

How could Lucifer, the Morning Star, have left God? You think you are mightier? You think your works exalt yourself higher?

Understanding God is a requirement for salvation? That is the highest distortion of truth! Such pride! You need to know where pride leads you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are free to sin on and on, thinking you have an eternal ticket to Heaven based on some few verses you like, ignoring the ones that protect you. God will allow it, but with great sadness. If you are still deserving of judgment, then you have not judged yourself according to Jesus, and will perish by that condition.

Naa.. My mind is working daily to continue to run the race

You think your strawman argument will convince me I am wrong, your seriously mistaken, In fact, it just makes my belief more secure because it proves you have no argument against me.

You go ahead and keep excusing your sin, while thinking you are working to help yourself be forgiven. You will see the light one day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How could Lucifer, the Morning Star, have left God? You think you are mightier? You think your works exalt yourself higher?

Understanding God is a requirement for salvation? That is the highest distortion of truth! Such pride! You need to know where pride leads you.

Again with this?

God never promised he would never leave them.

He gave his earthly children this promise

You need to go back to the gospel 101. You are making every excuse in the book to continue to work your way to heaven, You will fail.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I haved relatives who are very country and love "fox hunting" above everything, and are "Baptsits" who have no clue about the scriptures, while denying anything we try to preach.. My brother in law was baptized when 5 year old, and maintains that was all he need for a trip to Heaven. Meanwhile he remains drunk on whiskey, not in the Spirit. He's convinced he's OK by several preachers due to his water baptism. I have witnessed many "religious" folks in the same trap.

 

[FlyingDove]

OP: Does salvation require repentance and perseverance?

Answer: No!

Salvations requirements are:

Acknowledge God's sovereignty

Confess you're understanding that you have sinned against His rule

Place your faith in the sin redemptive work of Christ & believe God raised Him from the grave. See Romans 10:8-13.

1 John 5:
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(NOTE: Eternal life's gift is the freedom from sins required judgment =DEATH)

This post is My Opinion Only...

 

[Sipsey]

I haved relatives who are very country and love "fox hunting" above everything, and are "Baptsits" who have no clue about the scriptures, while denying anything we try to preach.. My brother in law was baptized when 5 year old, and maintains that was all he need for a trip to Heaven. Meanwhile he remains drunk on whiskey, not in the Spirit. He's convinced he's OK by several preachers due to his water baptism. I have witnessed many "religious" folks in the same trap.

Many times family members are harder to reach with the gospel, than strangers. Rejection by those close to us is frustrating, yet they are winnable, by a life lived that matches the words we preach. We are scrutinized more when we are midst of pain or suffering, so be sure and demonstrate what real faith looks like. It is easier to “tell” or “debate”, than it is to demonstrate what agape love looks like.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I haved relatives who are very country and love "fox hunting" above everything, and are "Baptsits" who have no clue about the scriptures, while denying anything we try to preach.. My brother in law was baptized when 5 year old, and maintains that was all he need for a trip to Heaven. Meanwhile he remains drunk on whiskey, not in the Spirit. He's convinced he's OK by several preachers due to his water baptism. I have witnessed many "religious" folks in the same trap.

So this excuses you from trying to work to earn your own salvation?

My mother taught me two wrongs do nto make a right.

It is sad that people go from one extreme to the far other extreme in order that they might not even be aligned in any way with the opposite extreme,

This was the mistake the jews made when they made their many rules in order to make sure they did nto sin again.

We see how well it worked for them, It does not work any more for people today.

Whether your licentious, or a worker for, both are false gospels based on pride And the NT fights against both.

Sadly, far to few people meet in the middle. Where Christ is.

 

[garee]

So this excuses you from trying to work to earn your own salvation?

My mother taught me two wrongs do nto make a right.

It is sad that people go from one extreme to the far other extreme in order that they might not even be aligned in any way with the opposite extreme,

This was the mistake the jews made when they made their many rules in order to make sure they did nto sin again.

We see how well it worked for them, It does not work any more for people today.

Whether your licentious, or a worker for, both are false gospels based on pride And the NT fights against both.

Sadly, far to few people meet in the middle. Where Christ is.

I don't think we need excuses .Christ paid the wage in full. One reward for any believer a pennies worth = eternal life. Some murmur they should have more.