Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep I've listened long and hard to see if the AoD,mark of the beast ect. could be explained by any of those who see it as fulfilled in the first century but everytime I get a different answer. One or two of them said they had no answer but most will still say it was fulfilled even though they cant show where or how,lol.

Thats is what is so amazing, For centuries. Pre mill people had to go off on complete faith. Not being able to even think how things could happen.

Today we have events and technology which can pretty much make every one of them happen.

They had greater faith than we can have..Yet people still do not even see it.

 

[iamsoandso]

Thats is what is so amazing, For centuries. Pre mill people had to go off on complete faith. Not being able to even think how things could happen.

Today we have events and technology which can pretty much make every one of them happen.

They had greater faith than we can have..Yet people still do not even see it.

And how close these things are are rather shocking. An example is the mathematical numbers of the earths population. For instance in 1960 there were about 3 billion people on the earth and in 2016 about 8.5 billion. So if there are 57,308,738 square miles of land mass on earth but about 55% in uninhabitable(mountains,desert,snow covered ect.) then so there is only about 15-16 billion acres of land that's left to grow gardens,cows chickens ect. ,,,,

16 billion(acres) divided by 9 billion(people) = 1.7777777 acres per person if we divided the earth today. There is the problem though because it takes about 80 acres of good land to grow enough food(fodder,vegetables,livestock ect.) to feed a family of 5-8 people. And so if we use the 1.7777777(round it off to 2,lol) there already is not enough land mass to feed a population after it grows to 10-15 billion worldwide and so we will face mass starvation about 2050 or so.

Most probably though wars will be fought over the issue of food before that begins to take it's toll. In addition to acres and food is also drinking water. in the news(youll have to google it,lol) India is already in that situation where there is more people in the population than drinking water(as is the US west coast dependent on snow-melt).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And how close these things are are rather shocking. An example is the mathematical numbers of the earths population. For instance in 1960 there were about 3 billion people on the earth and in 2016 about 8.5 billion. So if there are 57,308,738 square miles of land mass on earth but about 55% in uninhabitable(mountains,desert,snow covered ect.) then so there is only about 15-16 billion acres of land that's left to grow gardens,cows chickens ect. ,,,,

16 billion(acres) divided by 9 billion(people) = 1.7777777 acres per person if we divided the earth today. There is the problem though because it takes about 80 acres of good land to grow enough food(fodder,vegetables,livestock ect.) to feed a family of 5-8 people. And so if we use the 1.7777777(round it off to 2,lol) there already is not enough land mass to feed a population after it grows to 10-15 billion worldwide and so we will face mass starvation about 2050 or so.

Most probably though wars will be fought over the issue of food before that begins to take it's toll. In addition to acres and food is also drinking water. in the news(youll have to google it,lol) India is already in that situation where there is more people in the population than drinking water(as is the US west coast dependent on snow-melt).

One of the things we call a birth pang, is starvation.

Scientists believe in the next 50 years we will not have enough food to feed the earth.

We are seeing prophesy unfold before our very eyes.. To those who see it. WOW, what a blessing.

 

[azamzimtoti]

In regards to Dan 12:11-12 and the 1290 and 1355 days we need to consider context and how Jesus made reference to Daniel:

(Dan 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. )

Jesus addresses Dan 12:1 "be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation" in Matt 24:21:

(“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.)

In the previous verse he stated:

(Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand )

Regardless of how Dan 12:11-12 are understood Jesus placed his comments from Daniel in the generation that heard him as we have testimony from Luke that the siege of Jerusalem was the focus of the events and parallel statements to Matthew.

Unless Matthew and Luke are speaking of different generational events then the abomination of desolation and "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation" occurred during the time of the encampment and destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.

(Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)

(Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. ")

(Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand )

(Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)

All three synoptic gospels claim:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People seem stuck on one verse.

There is a HUGE difference between desolation - destruction

And an Idol, or unclean things placed in a holy place rendering it unclean (putting an end to sactrifice and burnt offering)

Jesus made it clear that Rome would leave not one stone left (in fulfilment of Dan 9, where Gabriel stated the prince of the people who is to come will DESTROY the city and sanctuary

But he also mentions the abomination which makes desolate. At which time he immediately states that there will be a tribulation so great. That the world has never seen it before or after, In fact, it will be so severe, If Jesus does not return, there will be no FLESH (living thing) left alive.

Of course, the first one was literally fulfilled, in detail.

If we are to use precidence (the way one is fulfilled, the other should follow(

The other should literally be fulfilled to every detail also.

Since it was not. IT MUST be concluded, that that is a yet future event.

Also. Remember when jesus read from the prophet. And said today this has been fulfilled. He only read part of it. He never red the part where he would personally be here on earth ruling as king messiah. Why? Because that part is YET to be fulfilled (again using precidence that if one aspect is literal. The other should be literal also)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In regards to Dan 12:11-12 and the 1290 and 1355 days we need to consider context and how Jesus made reference to Daniel:
(Dan 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. )
Jesus addresses Dan 12:1 "be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation" in Matt 24:21:
(“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.)

In the previous verse he stated:
(Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand )
Regardless of how Dan 12:11-12 are understood Jesus placed his comments from Daniel in the generation that heard him as we have testimony from Luke that the siege of Jerusalem was the focus of the events and parallel statements to Matthew.
Unless Matthew and Luke are speaking of different generational events then the abomination of desolation and "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation" occurred during the time of the encampment and destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.

(Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)
(Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. ")
(Mat 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand )
(Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)

All three synoptic gospels claim:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

Yet there are several distinctions that make these two SEPARATE instances:

--one is "its [Jerusalem's] desolation; the other is "the abomination [singular] of desolation [or, that maketh desolate]" and at the end of which "day amounts" referenced [context: Dan12:6-7,1-4,11-12], we should see "[Daniel] STAND IN THY LOT" (that is, on the earth), and we don't see that yet

--the other has to do with "what" they see, and in what SEQUENCE (i.e. the 70ad events-->[Lk21:12-24 (including their "shall be led away captive into all the nations")] must take place "BEFORE ALL THESE[-->beginning of birth PANGS--Lk21:8-11/Mt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8]"); meaning, the "SEE-THEN-FLEE" each take place in a distinct SEQUENCE (in relation to "the beginning of birth PANGS"... making them two different instances--and I believe it is the Matt24:15-16 "FLEE" that correlates with the Dan12:11 and Rev12:6,14 "FLED/FLY" where 1260 days remain until His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom)

--more...

 

[UnderGrace]

One of the things we call a birth pang, is starvation.

Scientists believe in the next 50 years we will not have enough food to feed the earth.

We are seeing prophesy unfold before our very eyes.. To those who see it. WOW, what a blessing.

Not going to happen, they can already clone meat, food may not be what we have now, we make get all our nutrition from a drink once a day.... science is already advancing in this area.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not going to happen, they can already clone meat, food may not be what we have now, we make get all our nutrition from a drink once a day.... science is already advancing in this area.

This post is disheartening
If god says something is going to happen it will. No matter how many people try to deny it

 

[dcontroversal]

One of the things we call a birth pang, is starvation.

Scientists believe in the next 50 years we will not have enough food to feed the earth.

We are seeing prophesy unfold before our very eyes.. To those who see it. WOW, what a blessing.

With only 30% of the corn crop planted, and of that 30% floods will destroy a percentage, with disease sweeping the hog population in China, Vietnam etc. and being past time to plant corn and almost beans and the test weight on wheat will be down as well due to the rain.....we are being set up for a massive famine this year......if farmers cannot buy grain to feed hogs, cattle, chickens etc.....gonna be a bad deal......right now would be a good time to buy contracts on corn....the price will skyrocket by the end of the year......

 

[dcontroversal]

This post is disheartening
If god says something is going to happen it will. No matter how many people try to deny it

AMEN.....famine is one thing listed that kills tribulation saints and part of the world's population...

 

[UnderGrace]

This post is disheartening
If god says something is going to happen it will. No matter how many people try to deny it

Mr. EG it is okay ..... it did happen

God knows exactly what He is doing.

 

[UnderGrace]

AMEN.....famine is one thing listed that kills tribulation saints and part of the world's population...

Exactly, the Romans cut off the food supply to the Jews I believe in 68 AD....you do realize that it is recorded they were eating each other and women were killing their own children to eat.

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly, the Romans cut off the food supply to the Jews I believe in 68 AD....you do realize that it is recorded they were eating each other and women were killing their own children to eat.

Sorry.....don't buy that view.....famines have been happening world wide from day one....and even when Babylon besieged Jerusalem.....and for the record...I like you, believe you know the truth about salvation and numerous other biblical truths, but your view on the end, in particular your view of the 1st century satisfying ALL the prophetic events listed yet to come....I do not buy......and MOST JEWS were not saints......

1/4 of the EARTH'S population....not centralized to JUDEA.....

 

[UnderGrace]

Sorry.....don't buy that view.....famines have been happening world wide from day one....and even when Babylon besieged Jerusalem.....and for the record...I like you, believe you know the truth about salvation and numerous other biblical truths, but your view on the end, in particular your view of the 1st century satisfying ALL the prophetic events listed yet to come....I do not buy......and MOST JEWS were not saints......

Can you explain the "most Jews were not saints"

 

[dcontroversal]

Can you explain the "most Jews were not saints"

HE came unto his own and his own received him NOT....To be qualified as a saint you must be saved....MOST Jews were NOT saved.......

 

[UnderGrace]

HE came unto his own and his own received him NOT....To be qualified as a saint you must be saved....MOST Jews were NOT saved.......

But the Jews were his own....were they not?

 

[dcontroversal]

But the Jews were his own....were they not?

And they did not receive him.....remember what they cried....Release unto Barabbas and CRUCIFY HIM.....most JEWS in Jerusalem were not saved and regardless....the 4 things listed in REVELATION kill a 1/4 of the earths population....it is not centralized to Judea and for sure not caused by Roman soldiers.....

 

[UnderGrace]

And they did not receive him.....remember what they cried....Release unto Barabbas and CRUCIFY HIM.....most JEWS in Jerusalem were not saved and regardless....the 4 things listed in REVELATION kill a 1/4 of the earths population....it is not centralized to Judea and for sure not caused by Roman soldiers.....

I cannot argue with you yet because I do not know enough ... but someday I will be ready and we will have a real showdown!!!

You know I believed the PreTrib Rapture most of my life and then went to PreWrath, all based on other people's research/books, for the first time I am putting together for myself and some things baffle me and do not seem to work ....but certainly the Olivet Discourse was either fulfilled or it is yet to be fulfilled, so at least there are only two options to explore!!!!

 

[iamsoandso]

Not going to happen, they can already clone meat, food may not be what we have now, we make get all our nutrition from a drink once a day.... science is already advancing in this area.

Eiver Min Ha'hai....

 

[dcontroversal]

I cannot argue with you yet because I do not know enough ... but someday I will be ready and we will have a real showdown!!!

You know I believed the PreTrib Rapture most of my life and then went to PreWrath, all based on other people's research/books, for the first time I am putting together for myself and some things baffle me and do not seem to work ....but certainly the Olivet Discourse was either fulfilled or it is yet to be fulfilled, so at least there are only two options to explore!!!!

I was pre-trib until I studied through the bible twice a year in Seminary and had to teach through both Thessalonian letters at church....it dies not jive.....Pre-Wrath on the other hand, post Great Trib does.......