Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Mr Bill 
I guess the short answer Jesus is our only security and His promises....my behaviour and desire are subject to change, but He is faithful and True...so I look to Him and this is what He clearly states...
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Now I did not state the desire is wrong....for certain we should desire to walk in the Spirit, however that is not how we know we are saved.
I guess the short answer Jesus is our only security and His promises....my behaviour and desire are subject to change, but He is faithful and True...so I look to Him and this is what He clearly states...
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Now I did not state the desire is wrong....for certain we should desire to walk in the Spirit, however that is not how we know we are saved.
It makes a big difference depending on what Bible you read and what you have been taught concerning 1-4
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SO you disagree with eternally grateful's post. Well, I agree with his interpretation. And he said nothing about Lordship salvation, in case you didn't realize. But regarding Lordship salvation, don't not know that Jesus is Lord of everyone He saves. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit Who is in you, Whom ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price; therefore, glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
If I am bought with a price, and I am not my own, and belong to another, that pretty much makes Jesus my Lord whether I know it or not. In actuality, Jesus is LORD of ALL, even those who reject Him. That is why every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.
Accepting Jesus as Lord is not meritorious, but it is an acceptance of truth instead of denying the reality of the truth
If I am bought with a price, and I am not my own, and belong to another, that pretty much makes Jesus my Lord whether I know it or not. In actuality, Jesus is LORD of ALL, even those who reject Him. That is why every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.
Accepting Jesus as Lord is not meritorious, but it is an acceptance of truth instead of denying the reality of the truth
Yep, righteousness is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but rather after the Spirit. Not letting the flesh have this ground and the Spirit that ground, but giving all to the Spirit and none to the flesh. Starve the flesh, it is nailed to the cross, leave it there. Not, as some teach, the flesh has this ground and we walk after the flesh over here but we walk after the Spirit over there.
That's like the Israelites allowing the Caananites to stay in the land when God commanded them to drive them out.
That's like the Israelites allowing the Caananites to stay in the land when God commanded them to drive them out.
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It does not say the new nature practices righteousness while the flesh of the believer is practicing sin. That is protognostic antinomianism.
The text says the one who is born of God practices righteousness and cannot practice sin (present, continuous, progressive) because the one who is born of God has a new nature.
The false doctrine that John was arguing against was proto-gnostic antinomianism, the belief that the body can sin all it wants and the spirit will remain unaffected.
That is a false dichotomy that severs spirit from body.
The text says the one who is born of God practices righteousness and cannot practice sin (present, continuous, progressive) because the one who is born of God has a new nature.
The false doctrine that John was arguing against was proto-gnostic antinomianism, the belief that the body can sin all it wants and the spirit will remain unaffected.
That is a false dichotomy that severs spirit from body.
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The false doctrine that John was arguing against was proto-gnostic antinomianism, the belief that the body can sin all it wants and the spirit will remain unaffected.
We are to bring our body into subjection to the Spirit OF GOD, not put a false division between the two and say "I am going to keep sinning with my body, and it's OK because my spirit is sinless.
When the flesh is contrasted with the Spirit, it is not my flesh vs my spirit, it is my flesh vs the SPIRIT OF GOD. In my flesh, dwells no good thing, so I must put it to death. It is already nailed to the cross, now I just need to leave it there and let it die. This is accomplished by mortifying (putting to death) the deeds of the flesh (which has no dominion over you, for you died with Jesus). The flesh is crucified, ie deprived of power and vigor, but it still struggles and groans to be released. Leave it on the cross, it has no dominion over you.
The scriptures teach that we must walk after the Spirit, not after the flesh. Romans 8:4
and that those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh. Galatians 5:24
and that we must put to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13 and Colossians 3:5)
and that if we live after the flesh, we will die. Romans 8:13
but if we put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit, we will live. Romans 8:13
We are to bring our body into subjection to the Spirit OF GOD, not put a false division between the two and say "I am going to keep sinning with my body, and it's OK because my spirit is sinless.
When the flesh is contrasted with the Spirit, it is not my flesh vs my spirit, it is my flesh vs the SPIRIT OF GOD. In my flesh, dwells no good thing, so I must put it to death. It is already nailed to the cross, now I just need to leave it there and let it die. This is accomplished by mortifying (putting to death) the deeds of the flesh (which has no dominion over you, for you died with Jesus). The flesh is crucified, ie deprived of power and vigor, but it still struggles and groans to be released. Leave it on the cross, it has no dominion over you.
The scriptures teach that we must walk after the Spirit, not after the flesh. Romans 8:4
and that those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh. Galatians 5:24
and that we must put to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13 and Colossians 3:5)
and that if we live after the flesh, we will die. Romans 8:13
but if we put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the Spirit, we will live. Romans 8:13
Yes, dcontroversal decided, to give us leniency to discuss a wide variety related subjects, because he and most of us here, believe in TOTALLY TRUSTING JESUS FOR OUR SALVATION, instead of WORKS, can effect most of our CHRISTIAN Life. Maybe we can keep this going until the LORD calls us HOME. Do you mean you literally looked over 5,067 pages of this THREAD ?
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You said that I am "adding works to the gospel, because I am making works or performance an indicator of salvation.
Too bad you failed to realize that the doctrine of perserverance teaches that ALL OF IT from beginning to end is THE WORK OF GOD. who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure, who will complete the work that He began in us, who will lose NONE of His sheep, whose power keeps us, by the intercession of Christ AND the Holy Spirit, and the preservation of the Holy Spirit, who remains in us, and the fact that the the same God who justified us in the crucified Christ, will also freely give us all things in by and through the RISEN Christ, yes, the ascended Christ, who ever lives, seated at the right hand of God, who ever lives to make intercession for us.
Too bad you failed to realize that the doctrine of perserverance teaches that ALL OF IT from beginning to end is THE WORK OF GOD. who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure, who will complete the work that He began in us, who will lose NONE of His sheep, whose power keeps us, by the intercession of Christ AND the Holy Spirit, and the preservation of the Holy Spirit, who remains in us, and the fact that the the same God who justified us in the crucified Christ, will also freely give us all things in by and through the RISEN Christ, yes, the ascended Christ, who ever lives, seated at the right hand of God, who ever lives to make intercession for us.
Psalm 106:3 (NASB)
3 How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!
Ezekiel 45:9 (NASB)
9 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Enough, you princes of Israel; put away violence and destruction, and practice justice and righteousness. Stop your expropriations from My people," declares the Lord GOD.
Matthew 6:1 (HCSB)
1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
1 John 3:10 (ESV)
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Revelation 22:11 (NASB)
11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."
Proverbs 21:15 (HCSB)
15 Justice executed is a joy to the righteous but a terror to those who practice iniquity.
Jeremiah 7:5 (NASB)
5 "For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly practice justice between a man and his neighbor,
Let's see if I got this right.
It appears YOU ONLY WANT IT TO MEAN A SPIRITUAL TRUTH, once for all time.
While we INSIST it is both Spiritual Truth, and the WAY WE ARE TO LIVE OUR LIVES in that TRUTH.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NLT2)
17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NJB)
17 Now this Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 And all of us, with our unveiled faces like mirrors reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the image that we reflect in brighter and brighter glory; this is the working of the Lord who is the Spirit.
How can you REFLECT CHRIST, when you do not see yourself as learning to be MORE and MORE LIKE HIM, OR reflect HIM in Brighter GLORY all the time ? ? ? You admitted you believe you got all of HIS GLORY all at once, and entered His REST, which you misinterpreted, so NOW YOU JUST COAST. It does not COMPUTE were I come from.
3 How blessed are those who keep justice, Who practice righteousness at all times!
Ezekiel 45:9 (NASB)
9 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Enough, you princes of Israel; put away violence and destruction, and practice justice and righteousness. Stop your expropriations from My people," declares the Lord GOD.
Matthew 6:1 (HCSB)
1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
1 John 3:10 (ESV)
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Revelation 22:11 (NASB)
11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."
Proverbs 21:15 (HCSB)
15 Justice executed is a joy to the righteous but a terror to those who practice iniquity.
Jeremiah 7:5 (NASB)
5 "For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly practice justice between a man and his neighbor,
Let's see if I got this right.
It appears YOU ONLY WANT IT TO MEAN A SPIRITUAL TRUTH, once for all time.
While we INSIST it is both Spiritual Truth, and the WAY WE ARE TO LIVE OUR LIVES in that TRUTH.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NLT2)
17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NJB)
17 Now this Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 And all of us, with our unveiled faces like mirrors reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the image that we reflect in brighter and brighter glory; this is the working of the Lord who is the Spirit.
How can you REFLECT CHRIST, when you do not see yourself as learning to be MORE and MORE LIKE HIM, OR reflect HIM in Brighter GLORY all the time ? ? ? You admitted you believe you got all of HIS GLORY all at once, and entered His REST, which you misinterpreted, so NOW YOU JUST COAST. It does not COMPUTE were I come from.
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