Receiving of Biblical faith?

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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#1
Nov 24, 2012
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#1
  1. We all are born with a certain amount of faith so when we hear the Gospel we believe according to our faith
  2. Upon hearing the Gospel faith is created.
  3. Faith is given beforehand to those who God desires to save so when hearing the Gospel they believe.

Which would you say most accurately portrays the way biblical faith comes into a person's life? Perhaps you have your own understanding?

Of course the above is a rough outline of three camps
1. Semi-Pelagian (Rome, most evangelicals)
2. Lutheran
3. Calvin (Reformed)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
#2
As I look, Number 2 comes close. Except I would not say it is created like they do. But that it is now available or possible (I can not think of the word I want to use) and it must be acted on (ones response to the gospel)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#3
Nov 24, 2012
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#3
eternally-gratefull said:
As I look, Number 2 comes close. Except I would not say it is created like they do. But that it is now available or possible (I can not think of the word I want to use) and it must be acted on (ones response to the gospel)
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Would this accord with your understanding of #2?

Romans 10:14,17 KJVS
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
#4
crossnote said:
Would this accord with your understanding of #2?

Romans 10:14,17 KJVS
[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends, As worded, # 2 sounds like whoever hears the word, Their faith is automatically created. What if the person hears the word and never comes to faith? It might just be the way I am reading it?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#5
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#5
eternally-gratefull said:
I guess it depends, As worded, # 2 sounds like whoever hears the word, Their faith is automatically created. What if the person hears the word and never comes to faith? It might just be the way I am reading it?
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I see what you are saying. As I understand it, Lutherans (#2) believe although the Holy Spirit is needed to illuminate God's Word, unlike (#3) the message can be resisted because God is working through the means of the Gospel and not in His raw power (which no one could resist).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
#6
crossnote said:
I see what you are saying. As I understand it, Lutherans (#2) believe although the Holy Spirit is needed to illuminate God's Word, unlike (#3) the message can be resisted because God is working through the means of the Gospel and not in His raw power (which no one could resist).
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Yes I agree, The HS is who illuminates, That is why no one will have an excuse (he convicts of sin righteousness and judgment)

# 3 I see as God illuminates only the elect. The rest would never understand even if they wanted to. Which they never would anyway so....
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#7
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
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#7
He gives us an innate faith through our conscience and His creation which testify of an all powerful Father.

Saving faith in Jesus Christ comes from hearing the Word and believing it in truth.

This faith in itself is a gift in that none would go to Him without His call, nor believe it without the eyes and ears to see and hear.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

We first accept He is God with this faith He has written on our hearts, He draws us to Jesus the Word made flesh, we believe in Him and by grace through faith we are saved... through His works in us.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#8
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#8
OneOfHis said:
This faith in itself is a gift in that none would go to Him without His call, nor believe it without the eyes and ears to see and hear.
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Would you say this call is resistable or irresistible?
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#9
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
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#9
crossnote said:
Would you say this call is resistable or irresistible?
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I know I resisted it most of my life, I loved my sin and my own understanding. (regarding the general sense of faith)

But when God called me and drew me to Jesus when I tried to resist the truth... I was truly terrified because hell now became a reality to me, no matter how much I would rather ignore it.

So I tried to prove to my own heart that Jesus was not the truth or the way... but the more I would seek to prove Him to be false... the more He rang true to me.


At this point, I would definitely say I do not have the power to unlearn or unbelieve He is the way.

(and I would also say God gets the credit for this... not my countless hours of study)
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#10
Mar 24, 2019
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#10
(sorry if that was a poor answer 😕... but I figured a personal testimony would demonstrate how I see things)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#12
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#12
crossnote said:
Which would you say most accurately portrays the way biblical faith comes into a person's life?
Click to expand...
Let's leave the labels aside and focus on Scripture.

1. Saving faith comes through (1) the preaching of the Gospel (Romans 10) and (2) by the convicting AND CONVINCING of the Holy Spirit.

ROMANS 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


2. After one is saved, a Christian may also receive the "spiritual gift" of faith. Presumably extraordinary faith, but not saving faith (already exercised).

3. At the same time, all those who receive spiritual gifts also receive a "measure of faith" or "a proportion of faith" which enables them to exercise that gift.

4. At the same time Jesus said that faith the size of a mustard seed is sufficient to move mountains.

5. Faith cannot be a work, since it is the exact opposite of any work. It is simply believing and trusting God, Christ, and the record which God has given us concerning His Son.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#13
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#13
Nehemiah6 said:
Let's leave the labels aside and focus on Scripture.

1. Saving faith comes through (1) the preaching of the Gospel (Romans 10) and (2) by the convicting AND CONVINCING of the Holy Spirit.

ROMANS 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Click to expand...
OK, so if out of a group of 100, they all hear the Word and are convicted by the Spirit, but only 20 believe. Are the 20 who end up receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior less depraved than the 80 who didn't? What made the difference?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#14
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
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#14
crossnote said:
OK, so if out of a group of 100, they all hear the Word and are convicted by the Spirit, but only 20 believe. Are the 20 who end up receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior less depraved than the 80 who didn't? What made the difference?
Click to expand...
JOHN 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#15
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#15
DEAU. 32:20.
And He said, I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end shall be:
for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

even so:
as it is written,
'All Israel shall be saved', for Faith is the Gift of God...

HEB. 4:2.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but The Word preached did not profit them,
not being mixed with Faith in them that heard it.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#16
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#16
ROMANS 10:20.
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought Me not;
I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me.

I was not even 'looking or seeking', had zero faith!, but NOW, I certainly Believe
with ALL of my 'heart/soul/mind'...
:):)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#17
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#17
Nehemiah6 said:
JOHN 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Click to expand...
Didn't we all love darkness at one time. What made the difference between one and another? Was one less depraved than another?
 
G

garee

Banned
#18
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#18
crossnote said:
  1. We all are born with a certain amount of faith so when we hear the Gospel we believe according to our faith
  2. Upon hearing the Gospel faith is created.
  3. Faith is given beforehand to those who God desires to save so when hearing the Gospel they believe.

Which would you say most accurately portrays the way biblical faith comes into a person's life? Perhaps you have your own understanding?

Of course the above is a rough outline of three camps
1. Semi-Pelagian (Rome, most evangelicals)
2. Lutheran
3. Calvin (Reformed)
Click to expand...
We beleive according to the faith of Christ that does work in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God. we should do so without murmuring. What about him or her? We cannot have our brand new faith in respect to our own self. That would cause us to blaspheme his Holy name.

We are born with no faith that could please God. Not little none. We have no qualifier by which we could hear .He works to give us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying . Like Rise Lazarus dead four days. Christ gave him the power to move as the Holy Spirit did work to both will and do his good pleasure .. . . Faith departed in the garden. .Christ by his work of faith reestablishes it at the cross by His work of faith as our Faithfull Creator. .

God calls the faithless ones a froward generation the evil generation of natural man (no faith)

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#19
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#19
garee said:
We beleive according to the faith of Christ that does work in us to both will and do the good pleasure of God. we should do so without murmuring. What about him or her? We cannot have our brand new faith in respect to our own self. That would cause us to blaspheme his Holy name.

We are born with no faith that could please God. Not little none. We have no qualifier by which we could hear .He works to give us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying . Like Rise Lazarus dead four days. Christ gave him the power to move as the Holy Spirit did work to both will and do his good pleasure .. . . Faith departed in the garden. .Christ by his work of faith reestablishes it at the cross by His work of faith as our Faithfull Creator. .

God calls the faithless ones a froward generation the evil generation of natural man (no faith)

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
Click to expand...
Was that #1, #2 or #3? to answer the OP, and who is 'we'?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#20
Jul 31, 2013
37,833
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#20
eternally-gratefull said:
I guess it depends, As worded, # 2 sounds like whoever hears the word, Their faith is automatically created. What if the person hears the word and never comes to faith? It might just be the way I am reading it?
Click to expand...
John 8:34 goes here

"Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word."​
​
also John 10:26

"But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you."​
 
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