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The 144,000 are end time prophets who give testimony of The Two Witnesses.I'm sure God reveals a revelation of scripture to people today.They can probably be considered prophets as well.Nobody has ever known full scripture.It's the song of the 144,000.
How?
Did you read verse 16? Peter says what is happening in Acts 2 is that which he quotes in verse 17. So it doesn't mean this is going on every day for thousands of years afterwards.
But you should look at Revelation 11:3
John tells us two witnesseses will come, and guess what they will do?
Prophesy.
Revelation 11:3
And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
So, there is prophecy that obviously comes AFTER the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written.
The role of witness's to the gospel is to speak a witness of the gospel and what it has meant in their lives.
The role of a prophet is to speak specifically into a situation and what is going to happen and Gods
judgement on this. Prophets spoke about Paul and his future, warning him what lay in front if he went
to Jerusalem.
People often forget the tole of prophets to only speaking judgement to unbelievers when it is about
specific answer to important situations.
The role of a prophet is to speak specifically into a situation and what is going to happen and Gods
judgement on this. Prophets spoke about Paul and his future, warning him what lay in front if he went
to Jerusalem.
People often forget the tole of prophets to only speaking judgement to unbelievers when it is about
specific answer to important situations.
Ephesians 4:11 indicates that it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who provides the gift ministries of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.
We also know from 1 Cor 14 that Paul gave instruction to the prophet in the church.
As @posthuman stated, "there is prophecy that obviously comes AFTER the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written".
I leave to the Lord Jesus Christ to decide what is needed in order to equip believers for the work of the ministry. If the Lord Jesus Christ decides a prophet is needed, then so be it.
Having said that ... it behooves us to diligently study the Word of God so we are able to discern between a prophet and a fool who calls him or herself a prophet.
We also know from 1 Cor 14 that Paul gave instruction to the prophet in the church.
As @posthuman stated, "there is prophecy that obviously comes AFTER the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written".
I leave to the Lord Jesus Christ to decide what is needed in order to equip believers for the work of the ministry. If the Lord Jesus Christ decides a prophet is needed, then so be it.
Having said that ... it behooves us to diligently study the Word of God so we are able to discern between a prophet and a fool who calls him or herself a prophet.
i think it is safe to say that if there are any true prophets today, there are far, far more not-prophets/false-prophets who are called and who call themselves prophets.
*** i don't mean to say that this precludes prophecy from God still being present in the world, just that this is not a sound argument to make from Acts 2 -- it does not prove the point that @jb was saying it proves. ((IMO)) that is, it doesn't disprove and it doesn't prove prophecy exists after the time of the apostles. it only shows that at that time there was prophecy.
In agreement ... my concern is that if the Lord Jesus Christ decides that a prophet is needed in order to equip the believers for the work of ministry (Eph 4:11-12) He can and will provide a prophet. That is His prerogative (imho) ...
No one will argue with that. Bear in mind that the formative period of the church was approximately 40 years, following which the apostle John wrote the last book of the Bible, which is almost exclusively prophetic. So during that time, apostles and prophets flourished. And all of the OT is sometimes called "the prophets".
But after the New Testament was completed, the apostles and prophets passed on. So now out of those gifts, we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
As it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gives the gift ministries to His body, I leave to Him the decision as to which gift ministry He will provide. I will not presume to tell Him what He is to give to His own body.
===========================================How?
Did you read verse 16? Peter says what is happening in Acts 2 is that which he quotes in verse 17. So it doesn't mean this is going on every day for thousands of years afterwards.
But you should look at Revelation 11:3
John tells us two witnesseses will come, and guess what they will do?
Prophesy.
Revelation 11:3
And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
So, there is prophecy that obviously comes AFTER the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written.
like Post said, 'the two witnesses will prophecy in the end' - to us, this 'negates' all other arguments
against prophets, simply because, Jesus Christ is the Same, yesterday, today, and forever'. -
all 'positions' in the Body can be fulfilled = pastors-teachers-prophets-helps' -
one of the most 'common marks' of a 'true prophet' is that he does not want to be one, and his
humility cannot go un-noticed'...
If we think about it, God has provided prophets throughout the history of mankind. According to Jude 1:14, Enoch was a prophet and he lived during the lifetime of Adam.
There were prophets going all the way back to the days of Adam, and then again at some point in the future (according to Revelation).
So during the period of time between the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ into heaven and the time in the future mentioned in Revelation, there are no prophets but God gives instruction to the prophet (1 Cor 14, Eph 4) during the time when there are no prophets???
N
newton3003
Guest
Logic is an earthly concept. When God said "Let us reason together," He meant He is the almighty who is above logic, but will employ it to make us see that He is beyond logic itself.
Anyway, 1 Corinthians 14:5 says the following: "Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but BUT EVEN MORE TO PROPHESY..."
Who but a prophet prophesies? And I tell you that what Revelation 22:18, which I quoted in my OP, means when it says not to add to the prophesies, is to not add to any one specific prophesy; it does not mean to not add to the NUMBER of prophesies thus far.
That is completely false. There is such a thing as DIVINE LOGIC, which is not the same as human logic.
N
newton3003
Guest
Right. When God says, "Let us reason together," that is divine logic, i.e. logic that is controlled by God. But the reasoning behind such logic is earthly, or else God wouldn't be able to "reason together" with us.
You obviously haven't read Acts 2v17-21,38,39:
"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
The baptism in the Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit and ministry gifts are available to the Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE of the age of Grace, right up until the Second Coming of Christ on the great and notable Day of the Lord!
NO Scripture contradicts this, and this is shown to be true by examining Church history! 1Cor 12v7-11,28, Eph 4v7-16, Rev 11v3-6.
Peter is not talking about 'the promise of being a prophet' in Acts 2:39.
he is talking about the promise of salvation. forgiveness of sin. the gift of a new heart and a new spirit.
this doesn't have anything at all to do with whether it is true that any spiritual gift you want to pick is or is not still active in the church at any point in history.
this has to do with, Acts 2 does not prove that neither does it disprove it. it's just flawed reasoning to say that because Peter said the specific events of that very day were a fulfillment of prophecy is some kind of proof for all times and all places. it's a complete misapplication of what's been written there.
what i'm telling you is, if you want to find some kind of proof text for the idea of ever-present-gift-ministry in an intellectually honest way, you need to look elsewhere.
Read the Scripture as it is, and NOT what you want to make it!
It distinctly says, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, a "new spirit" is NOT mentioned!
With the baptism in the Spirit also comes the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit (including prophecy) as listed in 1Cor 12v7-11.
To say that somehow Christ was not setting (and still does) the ministry gift of prophet and apostle in the Church throughout the whole of the age of grace is sheer nonsense! Matt 23v34, Mal 4v5,6, Rev 11v3-6.
It is unfortunate that Christians like yourself, because of your unbelief in the miraculous and greater ministries greatly limit the Holy One of Israel! Psalm 78v41.