Judging, the fine line...

[KDW4Him]

Where is the line between an observational statement and committing judgement?

Meaning if I were to say publicly;

"Christians today don't act like Christians."
compared to
"Bob Jones doesn't act like a Christian even though he says he is."
The first statement is a generalization yet a certain percentage of Christianity says it IS judging.

Where and how is the born again believer to act out James 5:19-20 "19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." and NOT judge since it takes judgement to be discerning to be that "someone"?

This verse clearly says someone, not the Holy Spirit. I say this because the same percentage of Christianity who say the first statement IS judgement will also say the Holy Spirit will be the only one who can turn someone back. I am not saying to ignore nor count out the Holy Spirit I am saying this verse places you and me there with an obligation (let him know) and reward (save a soul) for acting.

This is the best article I find explaining both sides of the issue. Judge Not Article

I have found basically two types of Christians, The majority will say all observations of someone and attempted correction is judgment and sin so don't go there then the smaller percentage who live out James 5. So, having said all of that, where is the line of helping but not sinning into judgement?

 

[dcontroversal]

The line is etched into the granite of truth found in the word.....and the line is crossed when our judgment begins to be based upon our opinion instead of the word of God......the bible is clear on this issue......we are also told to receive a weaker brother as a brother without judicial estimation........there is a order on how to deal with an unruly brother/sister and or issues that arise.....sin is sin and it is not biblically incorrect to call a spade a spade.....we are also told to not spread rumors and or whisper behind people's backs....even if what we are saying is true......and for sure....everything is to be established in the mouths of two or three credible witnesses...

If we do what we do according to the perimeters that are found within the word of GOD, including judgment......we are biblical.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where and how is the born again believer to act out James 5:19-20 "19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." and NOT judge since it takes judgement to be discerning to be that "someone"?

That passage would be applied in the context of a local church where those who gather together know each other. It is not meant to be applied in a general fashion.

So let's see what is stated in the King James Bible: Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

To "err from the truth" in this context would apply to both doctrinal error as well as sinful behavior. So even though the erring one is a saint, James calls him a "sinner" because he is persisting in his sins. Therefore Christians who personally know that one of their number is either promoting heresy or engaging in sinful behavior have a duty to personally speak to that person and try to persuade him to repent and stop what he is doing. This is not being judgmental but being helpful. This is a demonstration of Christian love.

When James says "save a soul from death" he is not speaking about unconverted sinners going to Hell. This is about a brother in Christ who is in danger of committing "the sin unto death" (which is premature physical death but not damnation). the first epistle of John talks about the sin unto death.

When James says "cover a multitude of sins" that would apply to the one who has reached out in love to the sinning brother, to put him back on track, and get him to stop sinning. This act compensates for a multitude of his own sins.

 

[theanointedwinner]

"Christians today don't act like Christians."

we should say, SOME Christians don't act like Christians, but SOME Christians actually do

at least we sound more like captain obvious instead of judging

 

[KDW4Him]

we should say, SOME Christians don't act like Christians, but SOME Christians actually do

at least we sound more like captain obvious instead of judging

So the first statement IS in fact judging?

 

[theanointedwinner]

So the first statement IS in fact judging?

yes, if you understand deductive logic

Christians today don't act like Christians

this implies "all"

so it sounds like

All christians today don't act like christians
KDW4Him is a christian
Therefore, KDW4Him don't act like christians

but the conclusion is wrong, even though the logic is valid, but not sound

because the statement that implies "all", the implication is the problem

and this logic is the same as

All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore, Socrates is mortal

do you understand? sometimes, we have to choose our words carefully

 

[TM19782017]

yes, if you understand deductive logic

Christians today don't act like Christians

this implies "all"

so it sounds like

All christians today don't act like christians
KDW4Him is a christian
Therefore, KDW4Him don't act like christians

but the conclusion is wrong, even though the logic is valid, but not sound

because the statement that implies "all", the implication is the problem

and this logic is the same as

All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore, Socrates is mortal

do you understand? sometimes, we have to choose our words carefully

Agree totally.
I get the biggest kick out of how newspaper writers give a voice to inanimate things as in, China said _____. Russia wants to ____.

Ummm No, how about the secretary of state (whoever that may be) was told by the president to say, _______.

The first ignites large scale anger and leads to wars.

The second makes me think that person has personal issues.

 

[KDW4Him]

yes, if you understand deductive logic

Christians today don't act like Christians

All christians today don't act like christians

As opposed to a previous generation, IE: just one generation ago Christians...... or Today compared to previous generations of Christians....

 

[MattforJesus]

As Christians we can tell people the right way to behave, and that they are in error, but this is according to the ways of God, so we are not telling them according to us being self righteous, but according to what God has said is the proper way to conduct oneself, and the truth.

Some say don't judge me when they know they are in the wrong about something, and not doing right, but you can if it is from God, and you are relating it to them.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are not to judge in a condemning manner such as saying you no good sinner, or you will never change and come to God, and putting them down, for we are sinners saved by grace, and we did not save ourself, so how can we judge other people in this manner when we were once a sinner that did wrong the same as them.

And if we judge in a condemning manner then it will come back on us, and our sins will not be forgiven in however we judge wrongly, for if we say you no good sinner for them stealing, but we have stolen before, then the sin of stealing is not forgiven us, for we have no right to do judge that way, and God forgiving us, and saving us, does not qualify us to act that way, for we did the same as them at one time.

Also Jesus said why behold the mote in a person's eye, but do not take heed to the beam that is in your own eye.

Which means that even if we tell them how to conduct themselves according to what God said we have no right to tell people how to conduct themselves if we are sinning ourselves, for then we are a hypocrite, for we are telling them they do wrongly while we do wrongly, and if we have sin in our life, and tell other people to behave rightly then we are a hypocrite.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

The man Christ Jesus is the judge of the world for He is a sinless man who always did right according to God's ways, so people have to measure up to His standard which they can by the Holy Spirit, and as long as one person can make it to heaven the world does not have an excuse for God will say why could you not make it to heaven.

The saints can judge on earth if it is according to the ways of God, and the saints shall judge the world, for if they are led of the Spirit then they acting like Christ, and when they are with Jesus in heaven the flesh is put off, and they will have a glorified body, and God will say to the heathen these people made it to heaven to be with Me, so why could you not do it, and they will have no excuse for why they could not make it.

Nobody has an excuse why they cannot be with Jesus for the man Christ Jesus made it to heaven so no one has an excuse, and the saints made it to heaven so nobody has an excuse.

We are only to tell people to behave right, and judge them on their wrongful behavior if it is coming from God what He said in His word, and giving glory to Him, and relating what He said, and not coming from our flesh acting holier than thou, and being arrogant, and condemning.

For we are sinners saved by grace so we once were like the world, and we did not save ourself, for without God we would not be with Jesus by our own effort.

But some people will say do not judge me, which they can be right, or they can be wrong, depending on how the saints judge them, whether by God, or by the flesh.