What we believe,or what God says?
- Thread starter Leastamongmany
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Why required ...if not part of the sin cleansing process/like repentance......as the Bible says?
I would suggest its always regarding what the scriptures says. It alone as it is written is the one source of Christian faith.
Its more of I beleive a matter of will a person finish doing the work he begins in us to the end of its conclusion as Christ does work in us to make it possible?
The Spirit of Christ informs us in Philippians 1:6.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
If he our confidence and did begin the good work of helping us to understand his mysteries he will finish it till the end. If there is a verse that seems to challenge the signified language and cannot be compared, the spiritual unseen understanding to the same .(faith to faith) Then I would think we would need to do more home work and test the conclusion in respect to the whole book of prophecy. Called others. . . the law and the prophets.. . the perfect law of God. . . . some call sola scriptura, or I would offer as spoken in Isaiah 28. . . For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
If we do not look any further but rather make it into a wonderment as a way of confirm they beleive something .You could say a self serving sign that some would call self eddying. self will .They may be giving in to early and miss a blessing possibly?
Many time the foundation of doctrines seems to get lost And it would seem to include this water tradition.
It would seem confusing traditions of God with tradition of men .It can turn things upside down as if it rained upward as the source of the doctrines of God . Not the right way doctrines flow from the unseen heaven again not inspired from the corrupted earth.
Deuteronomy 32:2My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
The ceremonial baptism law is used to introduce to the congregation a person who has a desire to serve as a member of the priest hood . Aaron s two sons were the first to receive this H20 baptism to symbolize they had a desire for God to symbolically wash away their sin .
They tried to make it away to self edify themselves and make it about the flesh...(self confirming) the things seen and not the spirit of ceremonial worship by adding their own personal touch . Fire consumed them leaving not a stench of the smell of smoke on the ceremonial priestly clothing used to represent clothed with the righteousness of Christ, the one who ceremonially washed them giving us his understanding.
How the foundation ever turned into a believers baptism as a way of confirming something other than a personal desire . It remains a mystery. I was baptized as a believer later the meaning came to announce to the rest of the congregation that as a old testament foundation I did have a desire to be member of the priesthood of believers after the manner of Melchedik. The Son of man Jesus fulfilled that shadow. Today the kingdom of priest after the new order is made up of all the nations men and woman( mankind) who speak a new tongue, the gospel .
Its what the discussion in John 3:25 was all about. What's a person from the tribe of Judah doing standing in the place of those from the tribe of Levi .( John was the last)
Baptism is not really required. But if a person has a desire to become a member of the kingdom of priest . They like Jesus can do so ..
He himself baptized showing others were given a desire to become a member of the priesthood of believers Just as the father gave him a desire as the food of the fathers will. .
What God says because He cannot lie.
Believing isnt all that we have, althought its important to believe. We believers have the holy spirit dwelling inside of us who will guide us to all truth. Thats the difference.
The demons believe, and tremble. They cant have the holy spirit why because they have no body for the holy spirit to dwell in.
If we have the holy spirit, then we can actually have fruits. What are the fruits...love peace, joy, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, meekness, temperance.
See Romans 6:22-23
Believing isnt all that we have, althought its important to believe. We believers have the holy spirit dwelling inside of us who will guide us to all truth. Thats the difference.
The demons believe, and tremble. They cant have the holy spirit why because they have no body for the holy spirit to dwell in.
If we have the holy spirit, then we can actually have fruits. What are the fruits...love peace, joy, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, meekness, temperance.
See Romans 6:22-23
You need to read all of the Bible.
When baptized John asked Christ ...why must it be...Christ said....for completion...completion of the process of sin cleansing.
There are many required references in scriptures. Start with Matt, Acts, John, Peter, etc. G-d's word will tell you....clearly.
Of course if one rejects what the Bible teaches then any conclusion may be reached.
The Baptist denomination started this new age religion teaching after the 1960's.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
The thief on the cross was not baptized yet Christ said he would be with Him in paradise. There are people who receive Christ on their deathbed who are not baptized, are you saying they all went to hell anyway? No. You should be baptized but it is not necessary for salvation.
If we are truly His/born again, we will be drawn to His Word, and His Spirit will enlighten our understanding according to His Word so that our faith and dependency on Him will increase and leaning on our own understanding will decrease.
...."The ceremonial baptism law"......scripture please?
Baptism under the old covenant was for cleansing and perhaps ceremonial in some instances. However, with the advent of the ...new covenant....it was designated as scripture intended...a requirement....as Christ said.....for sin cleansing. after repentance.
Be careful!!!!
How do you know the thief had never been baptized? There is no scripture for that.
We must not apply conjecture, in scripture, as you have done here for it will miss lead us.
OPINION....I think the thief on the cross was a former Christian who had back slid...because he seemed to know Christ. In any event G-d can grant absolution where He sees fit.
Further, that would hardly out weigh the specific language in scripture which requires baptism.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Except the Bible doesn't say that. If the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized then so can everyone else. Or that makes God a respecter of persons, which we know He is not. Again, one should be baptized to make a public stand for Christ. But it is not necessary for salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
People trying to earn salvation by the hands of man (works) and rejecting salvation by the hand of God (Grace) just amaze me, it is so sad how people can be so easily deceived into this works based religion. And call it from God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Why should you do anything God asks you to do?
Your argument makes no sense, By this line of reasoning why should we obey any of gods commands, Because they do not save us either.
The Bible doesn't say that...what?
You are repeating yourself...we already dealt with the thief on the cross. I will not accept spin here. To many can be miss led.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
My bad, I missed it. I'm responding to two different threads. A couple points... Your bolded part. No one is spinning anything, we are having a discussion. Which, last time I checked, is allowed here.
Quote "
How do you know the thief had never been baptized? There is no scripture for that.
How do you know he was? There is no Scripture for that.
We must not apply conjecture, in scripture, as you have done here for it will miss lead us.
No, actually that is what you are doing.
OPINION....I think the thief on the cross was a former Christian who had back slid
Right that's you're opinion. Nothing in the Word indicates the thief was a backslider. That's an assumption you are making.
...because he seemed to know Christ.
No he felt convicted of his sins knowing he was guilty and Christ was innocent. That doesn't indicate he was a Christian that fell away. He never said that, Jesus never said that. You're putting words in their mouths that aren't there.
In any event G-d can grant absolution where He sees fit.
Great, if He does it for one, He can do it for all and baptism isn't needed for anyone.
Further, that would hardly out weigh the specific language in scripture which requires baptism.
All kinds of verses that talk about salvation and baptism isn't mentioned.
And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod: Exodus 29:4-5
It is the subject matter in John 3
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26
John the last Levi ceremonially baptized the Son of man, Jesus from the tribe of Judah Before Jesus entered the earthly ministry sent out into the wilderness as our scapegoat showing he had a desire to do the will of the father
The time of reformation was at hand. The time had come to remove temporal the use of kings as the pagan way of governing his people .
God had given them over to that which should not of .They rejected Him as King walking by faith .They had become jealous of the surrounding pagan nations.
In that promised day (when he said it is finished. . . the glory revealed ) described as power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning (Jesus) His gospel would strike through the pagan form of government as restore the government to another time period. Showing us he is the unseen King of kings, seen.
The manner of priest is restored men and women of all nation are sent out as kingdom of priest as Ambassadors sent from a foreign land . They can be washed with water to symbolize they have a desire to do the will of the father just as our example of our High priest Christ.
The cerinimoinal water again will not be wasted. It can be used to show the assembly you have a desire to become a member of the priesthood of believers .
But again like Aarons two sons if we make it about the flesh as a sign a personal touch to confirm how great one is(self-edification) .
The example of the two sons show fire consumed them but not the ceremonially clothing that represents clothed with the righteousness of Christ not a hint of the smell of smoke .
Psalm 110:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
No longer after the order of levi but the new order promised to Joel .
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh
all the nations) and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:Again the water is not wasted, its not a salvation issue. I would think of it more of a foundation issue.
Most foundations are found in the Old with the exception of the 1 Corinthians 11, a duo ordinance. Two that work together to make up one new ceremonial law. . . that as a "shadow" points ahead .