Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Psalm 14:2-3, Psalm 94:11, Ephesians 2:3, Genesis 8:21, Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Job 15:14-16, Job 11:12, Mark 10:18, etc
100% Election 100% of the time.
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Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Psalm 14:2-3, Psalm 94:11, Ephesians 2:3, Genesis 8:21, Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Job 15:14-16, Job 11:12, Mark 10:18, etc
i like to think they don't know what they are doing.
or.. probably you meant do they 'grudgingly worship in hell' ?
well it does say, every knee will bow.
i know a song that goes, 'the world will bow - knees will be broken, for those who don't know how'
i think that's probably not far from the truth of it
For His guidance, for Him to use me to spread the Gospel more effectively, for His word to resonate more to them. None of these enforce on their free-will.
Why do you pray? Everything is already set per your viewpoint. Doesn’t matter if you pray for your kids or grandkids if they’re “reprobate” - “they’re going to Hell.”
i've never read a single thing Calvin ever wrote.
i didn't go to church for 15 years; i just read the Bible, and this is what i found in it. i'm not parroting some preacher or commentator or theologian.
you wanted to talk about 'cop outs' ?
IMO, saying "agree to disagree" is a cop out. it seems to me that it usually means, 'i don't have answers for the points you made'
surely you aren't saying that you don't pray for others, but only for yourself?
you're assuming things about me that i've not said.
because,
He said:
“In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
“In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”
And the Lord said,
“Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for His chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will He keep putting them off? I tell you, He will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
“Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for His chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will He keep putting them off? I tell you, He will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
(Luke 18:2-8)
and it wasn't up to this woman whether she received justice, but she constantly petitioned the one in whose power it was to grant it -- just as i pray to the One in whose hand mercy is.
Of course not; My prayer statement reflects prayers for coworkers and kids
I’ve argued my viewpoint - all are free to be saved if they believe.
We’ll find out which is right eventually.
All this speculation about people's salvation and God's calling or lack thereof, is moot. Nobody is going to burn forever just because God did not call them. In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
'for His word to resonate more with them' -- then what, you hope they 'make a good decision' without *gasp* any heavenly influence? because that would be just unthinkable *shudder* ?
got any basis for such a hope?
if i believe that God is able to do a real work in a person's heart, then i sure have a basis for hope when i pray.
if i believe God would never dare violate a person's sacred free will, then i'm not sure i really have any hope for anyone.
do you think people are basically good, and have an innate ability to understand spiritual things, completely separate from God moving in them to open their hearts and eyes to believe Him?
i think, you actually don't -- because if you did you wouldn't believe God needed to 'make His word resonate more' -- and hey, isn't that kind of like asking God to influence their sovereign unbiased free agency? to kinda 'load the dice' but just a little bit so it's still *mostly free* will on their part?
All this speculation about people's salvation and God's calling or lack thereof, is moot. Nobody is going to burn forever just because God did not call them. In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
anyone who ceases to exist never existed in the first place.
they only had an illusion of existence waiting to be revealed in time as non-existence.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Oh really, so when we look at Jesus is this what we see...someone who gave mercy sparingly?
Isn't odd we called to love everyone even our enemies.....yet God seems to have love/mercy for only some?
We have a higher calling than God?
What it means is that (1) God has made full and complete provision in and through Christ for the salvation of all humanity, (2) it is God's will that none should perish but that all should come to repentance and salvation, and (3) it is also God's will that everyone should obey the Gospel.
But since God will compel no one to be saved, He commands all men everywhere to repent. If they obey the Gospel, the shall be saved. If they do not, they will be damned.
And talking about God and failure in the same breath is not something which Christians do.
Ephesians 2:1-5 tells us you "were dead" before Christ quickened you, if you have been made alive in Him.
Romans ch. 6 tells you about a dozen times that you have already died, if you have indeed received salvation through Him.
so just how 'dead' is 'dead' according to God's definition of death?
"In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito."All this speculation about people's salvation and God's calling or lack thereof, is moot. Nobody is going to burn forever just because God did not call them. In fact, nobody is going to burn forever: period. Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. Death is death, finito.
God's true salvation plan is laid out in the scriptures, but antichrist jumped on Christianity in the fourth century and gave you a counterfeit church. You are still trying to come out from under that church but your Protestant Reformers won't let you. Keep digging, maybe you'll learn the truth.
What you opine is a much promulgated heresy......
Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but ...
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." ...
Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding ...
... They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. .... ...
Rev 20:10
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Mark 9
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’