Eternal torment VS Annihilation
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I don't believe in Universal Salvation tho, that wouldn't make sense either, since it is the idea that after a time in the Lake of Fire everyone would accept God, however, this is equal (or almost equal) to purgatory. I also don't think that eternal torment, conditional immortality and universal salvation are the only possible theories. Here's another one.
Yes, the beast and the false prophet are men, possessed men, but yes, they are men.
"Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."
"Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666."
"Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
"And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty."
I believe that when it states that Jesus went to make proclamation to those in prison, that he may have been referring to those angels that attempted to corrupt the Messianic blood line by taking wives who were put down under the earth in chains of darkness until the great white throne judgment. I believe that Jesus went there to proclaim to them that they failed and that everything that was written of Him was fulfilled. The word "kerusso" translated as "preached" means to make proclamation which is not restricted to the gospel.
"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, (tartartus) placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" - 2 Peter 2:4
"And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day." - Jude 1:6
"Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."
"Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666."
"Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
"And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty."
I believe that when it states that Jesus went to make proclamation to those in prison, that he may have been referring to those angels that attempted to corrupt the Messianic blood line by taking wives who were put down under the earth in chains of darkness until the great white throne judgment. I believe that Jesus went there to proclaim to them that they failed and that everything that was written of Him was fulfilled. The word "kerusso" translated as "preached" means to make proclamation which is not restricted to the gospel.
"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, (tartartus) placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" - 2 Peter 2:4
"And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day." - Jude 1:6
The word resurrection specifically has to do with rising in a physical body. That's why I included the definition of the word anastasis translated as "resurrection." Here it is again. Please read the details thoroughly.
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
As you can see on the last line, in red, the word "anastasis" translated as "resurrection" is defined as a physical, bodily standing up again for both the redeemed and unredeemed. This means that at the resurrection of the unrighteous dead which takes place at the great white throne judgment, that the spirits of the unrighteous will receive resurrected bodies and will stand before God to be judged.
To be clear, the word resurrection never refers to the spirit, but the bodily standing up again of the physical body. Anywhere you see the word "resurrection" in scripture, it is referring to the physical body standing up again.
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
As you can see on the last line, in red, the word "anastasis" translated as "resurrection" is defined as a physical, bodily standing up again for both the redeemed and unredeemed. This means that at the resurrection of the unrighteous dead which takes place at the great white throne judgment, that the spirits of the unrighteous will receive resurrected bodies and will stand before God to be judged.
To be clear, the word resurrection never refers to the spirit, but the bodily standing up again of the physical body. Anywhere you see the word "resurrection" in scripture, it is referring to the physical body standing up again.
Also, in Matthew 25:31-46 we see the righteous and unrighteous being judged AT THE SAME TIME, not in two separate events. I believe the Great White Throne Judgement and the Bema Seat are one and the same. I know it has nothing to do with Conditional VS Unconditional Immortality, but it still is interesting
We don't read much about that body tho.
Neither can I find any scriptures that confirm - in case I am wrong and the soul really is immortal - that if a sinner is in the Lake of Fire that he couldn't escape. We only read about that great gulf in Hades/Sheol, not in Gehenna. Matthew also describes it as "outer darkness", which may be another challenge. Now, does "outer darkness" refer to Hades or Gehenna? I used to think to Hades, yet Matthew 25:30 speaks about the time when Jesus is back, so I suppose it does speak about the Lake of Fire. What if the fire is rather figurative? This subject is not so clear as many think it was. Even in case of eternal torment there are many different views. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 says our works are tested by fire, and I do not think it merely refers to judgement day, but the way we are tested in this life.
Neither can I find any scriptures that confirm - in case I am wrong and the soul really is immortal - that if a sinner is in the Lake of Fire that he couldn't escape. We only read about that great gulf in Hades/Sheol, not in Gehenna. Matthew also describes it as "outer darkness", which may be another challenge. Now, does "outer darkness" refer to Hades or Gehenna? I used to think to Hades, yet Matthew 25:30 speaks about the time when Jesus is back, so I suppose it does speak about the Lake of Fire. What if the fire is rather figurative? This subject is not so clear as many think it was. Even in case of eternal torment there are many different views. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 says our works are tested by fire, and I do not think it merely refers to judgement day, but the way we are tested in this life.
Matt.25:31-46 is the judgment of the sheep and the goats, which will take place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. This judgment will be between those who made it through the wrath of God and the beasts reign up until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. The sheep and goat judgment will take place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and at the beginning of the millennial period. While the great white throne judgment takes place at the end of the millennial period. So, these are two different judgments.
The Bema seat is where believers will be judged in heaven after the resurrection and being caught up, but not for sin, but to receive reward or loss of reward. The wicked will not be present at this judgment. The great white throne judgment, on the other hand, will be a judgment for all sin.
The Bema seat is where believers will be judged in heaven after the resurrection and being caught up, but not for sin, but to receive reward or loss of reward. The wicked will not be present at this judgment. The great white throne judgment, on the other hand, will be a judgment for all sin.