Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.
How does the law make you perfect? How does it make you righteous? Is anyone EVER going to answer those questions?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Their sins I will remember no more

In order for this to be true, the law has to be set aside. Because if the law is still active and applies to us individually, IT STILL EXPOSES OUR SINS.

Funny how you love to misapply the law (word) written on our hearts, but ignore the fact our sins are remembered no more.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The law was given to define sin. It is still sin to break the law: 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
Yep. It was given to prove we are sinners. Point to Christ, and bring us to the throne of Grace where we call out on the name of the lord.

Or as paul called it a TUTOR.

Paul also said once it has completed its job, WE NO LONGER NEED A TUTOR.

So what do we do now? Continue under the tutor. Or look forward to greater things? Namly learning to be christlike. Something the LAW WAS NEVER INTENDED TO DO.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
YUP! When Jesus comes back, we will still keep it.:cool:
You have never kept it to begin with. How are you still going to keep it??:rolleyes: No one has, no one ever will. UNTIL they reach heaven
 
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I love this verse. We will have to spend some time breaking bread over this later.

Me too. All we can do is share and pray. And pray some more rightly dividing the word of truth without holding onto preconceived notions and ideas.
Many of us here seek truth where we take scriptural facts and find a conclusive position, but there are many who find a conclusion for which they must find facts to support. This seems to be the quandary many find themselves in. Too often people find themselves rooted in church families that believe a certain way and to be a part of that family they must conform doctrinally. To disagree doctrinally is to be rejected from that family. Hence the the quandary of "a conclusion in search of facts"

So to try to convince some to see the true conclusion of scripture is the same as asking them to be rejected by their church family. These are all steps along the way of course. Jesus Himself was:

Isa 53:3 KJV He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I would say that being rejected is part of taking up our cross and following Him. I pray that those who argue the facts that come against their conclusions for the sake of being "accepted" will find the moral fortitude to step into the smaller fellowship of believers, fragmented, rejected of men but strong in faith.

As Jesus clarified; these are His true brothers and sisters;

Mat 12:47-50 KJV Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


I appreciate you brother...:)[/QUOTE]Good post my friend. Thank you for your kind words. The Lord is gracious to allow us to serve Him and one another through His Spirit. Praise GOD and thank you for your service.[/QUOTE]


I agree, we are blessed to be able to serve and "build one another up"! Nice to be reminded..Thank You!

I pray we all find the desire to read and commit to a brotherly civility, even love:

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.


Romans 14:19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.


Hebrews 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

Ephesians 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, rejoice, be made complete, be comforted, be like-minded, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Ephesians 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Hebrews 10:24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,

Ephesians 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

And below is one of my favorites because it, like the verses on "fruits of the spirit" and the one where Jesus says "these are my mother and brothers...." these have the intention of being a litmus test for identifying spiritual brothers;

Joh 13:34-35 KJV A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

As time passes and posts build like a bench of witnesses for or against us, we have the opportunity to scrutinize one anothers conversation towards one another to see if there is "love one to another" or "contempt". It takes effort, but let's leave a trail of witnesses for us. Sure, anger is inevitable, but let it be tempered with love.

Jesus was clear as to just how important this matter is when he made it clear that interaction we desire with God is secondary to finding rest with our brothers, so he commanded or admonished:

Mat 5:23-24 KJV Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; (24) Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

And I hope more of us will realize that while these forums are at times uplifting, never let any tension or wrath between one another go overnight. Settle the issue if only to say; "brother, I look forward to the day when we will all see things clearly, so maybe we could find the rest and unity and then just go fishing together! Thank you for working at it with me."

The admonition below is important even in these forums:

Eph 4:26 KJV Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

I know this may all sound cheesy or over the top, but I know I need to keep these things in mind and that if we commit to civility the Holy Spirit will have more opportunity to work among us.

Sorry for another long post. I will work of more meaning in fewer words. :)

Bless YHWH! Know and Keep!
 
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me also. but, that does not answer the question. Shabbat or not? requirement or not?
Greetings eb9,

Be careful not to engage in "doctrinal bullying"


Rom 14:4-6 KJV Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


There are so many differences between men and sects of religion. Is it necessary to pin someone against the wall and demand a "Doctrinal pass" or else? No, I don't think so. Look for common ground to build one another up. I guarantee you there is enough doctrine that you and "DeighAnn" agree on to talk about for months even years. Why seek out contention?

Be Well
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Many of us here seek truth where we take scriptural facts and find a conclusive position, but there are many who find a conclusion for which they must find facts to support. This seems to be the quandary many find themselves in. Too often people find themselves rooted in church families that believe a certain way and to be a part of that family they must conform doctrinally. To disagree doctrinally is to be rejected from that family. Hence the the quandary of "a conclusion in search of facts"

So to try to convince some to see the true conclusion of scripture is the same as asking them to be rejected by their church family. These are all steps along the way of course. Jesus Himself was:

Isa 53:3 KJV He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I would say that being rejected is part of taking up our cross and following Him. I pray that those who argue the facts that come against their conclusions for the sake of being "accepted" will find the moral fortitude to step into the smaller fellowship of believers, fragmented, rejected of men but strong in faith.

As Jesus clarified; these are His true brothers and sisters;

Mat 12:47-50 KJV Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


I appreciate you brother...:)
Good post my friend. Thank you for your kind words. The Lord is gracious to allow us to serve Him and one another through His Spirit. Praise GOD and thank you for your service.

I agree, we are blessed to be able to serve and "build one another up"! Nice to be reminded..Thank You!

I pray we all find the desire to read and commit to a brotherly civility, even love:

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.


Romans 14:19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.


Hebrews 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Jude 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

Ephesians 4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, rejoice, be made complete, be comforted, be like-minded, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Ephesians 4:16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Hebrews 10:24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,

Ephesians 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

And below is one of my favorites because it, like the verses on "fruits of the spirit" and the one where Jesus says "these are my mother and brothers...." these have the intention of being a litmus test for identifying spiritual brothers;

Joh 13:34-35 KJV A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

As time passes and posts build like a bench of witnesses for or against us, we have the opportunity to scrutinize one anothers conversation towards one another to see if there is "love one to another" or "contempt". It takes effort, but let's leave a trail of witnesses for us. Sure, anger is inevitable, but let it be tempered with love.

Jesus was clear as to just how important this matter is when he made it clear that interaction we desire with God is secondary to finding rest with our brothers, so he commanded or admonished:

Mat 5:23-24 KJV Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; (24) Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

And I hope more of us will realize that while these forums are at times uplifting, never let any tension or wrath between one another go overnight. Settle the issue if only to say; "brother, I look forward to the day when we will all see things clearly, so maybe we could find the rest and unity and then just go fishing together! Thank you for working at it with me."

The admonition below is important even in these forums:

Eph 4:26 KJV Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

I know this may all sound cheesy or over the top, but I know I need to keep these things in mind and that if we commit to civility the Holy Spirit will have more opportunity to work among us.

Sorry for another long post. I will work of more meaning in fewer words. :)

Bless YHWH! Know and Keep!
Just remember when you say things like this This could be you. It could be your upbringing which causes you to believe as you do. It could be many factors. You as all of us must always be open to the truth we may not have all the facts and may not always be right.

Failure to do so may leave us stranded by putting our faith in doctrines which are just not true.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Greetings eb9,

Be careful not to engage in "doctrinal bullying"


Rom 14:4-6 KJV Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


There are so many differences between men and sects of religion. Is it necessary to pin someone against the wall and demand a "Doctrinal pass" or else? No, I don't think so. Look for common ground to build one another up. I guarantee you there is enough doctrine that you and "DeighAnn" agree on to talk about for months even years. Why seek out contention?

Be Well
Do you feel it is your job to try to expose people who you think do not respond in a way you seem appropriate?

Can you not answer the mans question?

And while your at it. When people like Deighann and others respond in that way, (what you call bullying) Why do you not respond in kind to them also?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Greetings eb9,

Be careful not to engage in "doctrinal bullying"


Rom 14:4-6 KJV Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


There are so many differences between men and sects of religion. Is it necessary to pin someone against the wall and demand a "Doctrinal pass" or else? No, I don't think so. Look for common ground to build one another up. I guarantee you there is enough doctrine that you and "DeighAnn" agree on to talk about for months even years. Why seek out contention?

Be Well
I am not trying to be contentious. I am simply trying to root out what others believe about important things.

I am simply asking a very important question.

gentiles were never under the Law, and hence never commanded to keep the jewish Sabbath. anyone who says one has to keep it is wrong.

now, as far as what Paul said here, he was speaking on a individual basis. and I 100% agree with Him.

if one wants or feels led to keep the twilight fri-sat Sabbath, then God bless, I support and honor that.

but, when this is pushed as a " you have to do so as part of salvation". then that is wrong, and I will always stand against this judeaizer lie.
 
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Just remember when you say things like this This could be you. It could be your upbringing which causes you to believe as you do. It could be many factors. You as all of us must always be open to the truth we may not have all the facts and may not always be right.

Failure to do so may leave us stranded by putting our faith in doctrines which are just not true.

Well Said EG,

Thank you
 
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Do you feel it is your job to try to expose people who you think do not respond in a way you seem appropriate?

Can you not answer the mans question?

And while your at it. When people like Deighann and others respond in that way, (what you call bullying) Why do you not respond in kind to them also?

You are right...

There are offensive and defensive errors. I tend to look at the offensive, but the defensive are no less difficult to hear and reconcile. I did make a blanket statement or two just today concerning this.

I am not singling you out...if you took it that way I hope you will forgive me.

There is a way to ease all this tension. We ALL need to be more patient and considerate. It aint easy, but it can be done.

ME included obviously.
 
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Oh, there's a short-list of word types that turn away WRATH. I'm trying to keep it in mind.

There's a verse pertaining to this...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am not trying to be contentious. I am simply trying to root out what others believe about important things.

I am simply asking a very important question.

gentiles were never under the Law, and hence never commanded to keep the jewish Sabbath. anyone who says one has to keep it is wrong.

now, as far as what Paul said here, he was speaking on a individual basis. and I 100% agree with Him.

if one wants or feels led to keep the twilight fri-sat Sabbath, then God bless, I support and honor that.

but, when this is pushed as a " you have to do so as part of salvation". then that is wrong, and I will always stand against this judeaizer lie.
Amen, Many lawyers will claim if we do not follow the sabbath we are not obedient to God. And as such, how can we be saved.

So once again, We ask questions to determine what individuals believe.

We could do like many do and just assume they believe this. But that would make us just as guilty as those who assume things about us.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are right...

There are offensive and defensive errors. I tend to look at the offensive, but the defensive are no less difficult to hear and reconcile. I did make a blanket statement or two just today concerning this.

I am not singling you out...if you took it that way I hope you will forgive me.

There is a way to ease all this tension. We ALL need to be more patient and considerate. It aint easy, but it can be done.

ME included obviously.
Well I was not talking about me personally. You were saying something to GB9, but it was just something I saw which Worried me
 
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Well I was not talking about me personally. You were saying something to GB9, but it was just something I saw which Worried me

Yeah, I know, we all need to keep each other in check. I appreciate your kindness in the matter.

This would be a nice day to go fishing! Or for those fortunate enough to live on the coast, clamming or scalloping, maybe crabbing! I love crabbing! Anybody know what "chicken-necking" is? I personally am a "Fish-Header"!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yeah, I know, we all need to keep each other in check. I appreciate your kindness in the matter.

This would be a nice day to go fishing! Or for those fortunate enough to live on the coast, clamming or scalloping, maybe crabbing! I love crabbing! Anybody know what "chicken-necking" is? I personally am a "Fish-Header"!
I am heading to northern Michigan tomorrow for a week on the lakes.. So lookin forward to rest, relaxing, fishing, scuba diving, and just being out on the water.
 
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I am heading to northern Michigan tomorrow for a week on the lakes.. So lookin forward to rest, relaxing, fishing, scuba diving, and just being out on the water.

Oh ho ho! Yeah, take a few deep breaths for me out there!

I can picture that now. Be safe. Sun is intense on the lakes this time of year!

Well let me say it's been my pleasure threading with you brother.

Hopefully I will be here when you return.

Oh, what a great time to meditate on the Word!

SG

p.s. Never been on the lakes personally. I always wondered what they smell like. Are they salty, brackish? Just wondering.
 
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I am heading to northern Michigan tomorrow for a week on the lakes.. So lookin forward to rest, relaxing, fishing, scuba diving, and just being out on the water.

Hey, I decided earlier to memorize a few verses to help me. Care to join me? I would be honored.
Nice words to take on vacation. I'm going to work on them over the weekend. I know I need them. :)

Pro 11:17 KJV The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.

Pro 15:1 KJV A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

Pro 16:24 KJV Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.

p.s. I won't use them against anyone. A brother had a tagline earlier this week that went something like: "The Bible is a mirror to look at yourself with not a magnifying glass to look at others." I know I didn't get that exactly right but the gist of it stuck with me.