Would my servants fight?

Lanolin · Jul 15, 2019

I have been reading the four gospel accounts of Jesus arrest and betrayal.

Some people keep quoting Jesus said to go find swords as if this is justifcation for fighting and using weapons. But is it really?

Why did Jesus say this? Why did he tell them to go buy some swords (as they didnt have any) and then when Peter cut of malchus ear, did he tell Peter to put his sword away. Was it because he wanted to demonstrate Gods healing on Malchus ear?

When Jesus said I was there all day at the temple teaching and now you come at night with staves and swords to take me. Who was he talking about. Judas and chief priests? And when Jesus was arrested, he said this

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom was of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now my kingdom is not from hence. John 19:36

What servants is he talking of here, the disciples with their swords?
Am a bit puzzled about this, what was Jesus meaning. He tells his disciples to take swords but then tells them to put them away. Why did he say this? Was he endorsing violence or use of weapons or what. Or was he saying, you take these weapons and can have them but just dont use them to fight.

Remember Jesus had prayed nobody be lost and for the disciples not to enter into temptation. The temptation to what? Was Jesus armed with a a sword himself on the night of his arrest?

tourist · Jul 15, 2019

Lanolin said:

There is a vast difference between violence and the necessary use of force. I don't believe Jesus was endorsing the actual use of weapons and He certainly was not condoning violence. There is a lot in the Old Testament that puzzles me too especially violence and the use of force. The disciples being human it would not surprise me in the least if they were to actually use the swords that Jesus told them to carry if the situation arose that called for it. The truth is that we live in an often violent world and there are times that it takes the use of force to subdue or eliminate it.

dcontroversal · Jul 15, 2019

tourist said:

Amen.....She is doing what many do on this site....conflating two issues and in so doing missing the mark on both....!!!

The day she said she would lose respect for her husband if he used violence to defend her told me all I need to know about her stance!!

Hazelelponi · Jul 15, 2019

As Scripture says; "For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under Heaven." See Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 for the full scripture..

When we are led by the Spirit, I believe we will know what is right for us to do, in that moment.

MattforJesus · Jul 15, 2019

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Of course Jesus did not want His servants to fight for Him to deliver Him, for that goes against the purpose of Jesus coming to earth, and shedding His blood to wash away our sins.

Luk 22:50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
Luk 22:51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

The sword might of been so Jesus could show His power of healing as a testimony to what He claimed, the Son of God.

Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Like Jesus showed His power as a testimony when they fell backward.

For God likes to give witness to the truth, for when they go against it they have no excuse.

Some people think it is alright to defend oneself, and defend their loved ones, but this does not apply here for it was Jesus' purpose to go to the cross, so He would not want His disciples to try to deliver Him from it.

azamzimtoti · Jul 15, 2019

MattforJesus said:

Missed this Matt:

(John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” )

Lanolin · Jul 15, 2019

MattforJesus said:

Hmm ok was it so scripture could be fulfilled when he said he would be numbered among the transgressors. Also he said those that live by the sword will die by the sword.

The falling backward part, was this where many christians get that 'slain in the spirit' ? It was as he said it, theres no mention of Jesus himself carrying a physical weapon i.e sword on him. But it seems all his discples were armed that night.

In revelation the sword comes out of his mouth...

garee · Jul 15, 2019

I would offer...

Swords have to do with the mouth as speech . The power of life and death are in the tongue, By the tongue God, God heals and brings life . The same tongue works death to those who beleive not .

This can be seen when they came to arrest Jesus with Judas When Jesus said he was him the invisible force of impact drove them to fall backward to the ground a sign of be slain in the Spirit . Ultimately it would seem the two swords are His words as drawn swords ready to perform the will of God.
It would seem like his way of saying I already told you what to bring one, now trust me let my word defend your heart. .

Two swords or twoedged to cut both ways heal and kill . . . . drawn out words

Psalm 55:21The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.Revelation

tourist · Jul 15, 2019

Hazelelponi said:

Well spoken. Glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

Hazelelponi · Jul 15, 2019

garee said:

God doesn't have a tongue..

The double edged sword shown symbolically in Jesus's mouth Book of Revelation is the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12

"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Of course, this Word is not only written scripture, it's also that thing by which all men will be judged, Jesus Christ Himself:

Romans 10:9-10

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

He is the dividing line, as He says, He has not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Magenta · Jul 15, 2019

Hazelelponi said:

oyster67 · Jul 15, 2019

Lanolin said:

Jesus orchestrated this incident in order to show us that He disapproved of violence.

John
18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Jesus is our example. We must accept the cup that is set before without resisting with violence.

Lanolin · Jul 16, 2019

oyster67 said:

Isnt resisting, by its nature, non- violent? . Othewise it wouldnt be resisting. It would be fighting!

When you stand your ground, you dont give an inch right, you just stand.

They say Joan of Arc, even though she was on a horse and armed for battle, didnt need to use any weapon. She just told the English to retreat. And they did.

Adstar · Jul 16, 2019

The prophecy had to be fulfilled that Jesus would be counted amongst the lawless..

Lanolin said:

The reason Jesus told them to get swords was because He needed them as part of the fulfillment of a Prophecy about the Messiah ( that He would be reckoned among the transgressors).. Once the disciple had cut the ear off the servant of the high priests then swords no longer served a purpose in our Christian Way..

Luke 22: KJV
36 "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. {37} For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. {38} And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."

Why did Jesus say two swords where enough??? Actually one sword was enough.. The sword used to cut off the ear of the servant of the High priest::

Matthew 26: KJV
51 "And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. {52} Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. {53} Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? {54} But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

So they had swords for a few hours only to fulfill prophecy that the Messiah would be reckoned among the transgressors.. Immediately after the sword had served it's purpose Jesus told them not to use swords in no uncertain terms.. Because our war is not carnal combat against the flesh,, Our war is a war against evil spirits and their strongholds in the minds of people..

2 Corinthians 10: KJV
3 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: {4} (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

"

Ephesians 6: KJV
12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Victor1999 · Jul 16, 2019

He is ה' צבאות - The Commander of Heaven's Armies! "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?" (Matthew 26:53). The servants of John 19:36 are both the disciples and the angels as I see it. Jesus is saying that he could use this or that to fight back but He doesn't because His kingdom is not of this world. I do not know why He told them to get swords, and commentators don't seem to know either, we can only guess. Maybe it meant that hard times are coming. I'm sure that if Jesus wanted to fight back two swords would be enough for Him, even one. Sometimes we can't understand the thoughts of our great God. The disciples are recorded in the gospels misunderstanding His words a lot, and do we claim to have more understanding of God than the chosen ones who lived with Him and suffered with Him and saw Him face to face?

Sipsey · Jul 16, 2019

I suppose if one could dismiss most of the OT accounts of God’s commands to vanquish several races of people by sword, bow and spear, and discount Abraham and his small army actually going to battle and then have the nerve to give the “spoils” of his battle to a priest named Melchizedek, I suppose one could through much effort say God wants us Christians to always turn our cheeks.

But we would also have to do away with much of the NT prophecy about the battles to come.

When one realizes that Jesus and all the Apostles taught the Love and grace of God entirely from the OT, but then dismiss the rest, they throw reason out the window. God gave laws as to when killing was justified and when it was not. We would all do well to heed “the whole council” of God’s word, and not simply the doctrines that appeal to some.

7seasrekeyed · Jul 16, 2019

IMO what this is really about:

starting a thread to 'passively' swing at people who don't buy your particular brand of nonsense (insert word of choice for nonsense)

passive aggressively ignoring all who have common sense and dare to use it

voila la résistance

notuptome · Jul 16, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

Waves of agnostic attacks against the truth of Gods word. Feigned questions to create doubt and distrust in Gods word. It's popping it's head into many threads.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

7seasrekeyed · Jul 16, 2019

notuptome said:

oh my lands we agree on something

let's not discuss it though cause that would be pressing it

7seasrekeyed · Jul 16, 2019

Sipsey said:

I suppose if one could dismiss most of the OT accounts of God’s commands to vanquish several races of people by sword, bow and spear, and discount Abraham and his small army actually going to battle and then have the nerve to give the “spoils” of his battle to a priest named Melchizedek, I suppose one could through much effort say God wants us Christians to always turn our cheeks.

But we would also have to do away with much of the NT prophecy about the battles to come.

When one realizes that Jesus and all the Apostles taught the Love and grace of God entirely from the OT, but then dismiss the rest, they throw reason out the window. God gave laws as to when killing was justified and when it was not. We would all do well to heed “the whole council” of God’s word, and not simply the doctrines that appeal to some.

passivity is the devil's playground

Would my servants fight?

Well-known member

Senior Member

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Active member

Well-known member

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Senior Member

7seasrekeyed

Guest

7seasrekeyed

Guest