Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#481
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#481
Answering Nat2019's Post #478: I underlined it to draw attention to the fact that the definite article ('the') is present in the Greek text. Does that help?

TDW's Post #476: ["the faith" = "that body of truth" as found in the NT following His death/burial/resurrection/exaltation]
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#484
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#484
Nat2019 said:
Did you the word "believeth" is a continuous tense. Means continuing to believe:)
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No, as apploed to salvation, justification it is written in both perfect tense Greek verb and also Aorist tense Greek verb.....it is an ongoing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION......was saved, am saved and continuing to be saved based upon my past completed action of SAVING FAITH......the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD are IRREVOCABLE.....and exactly why it states that if we BECOME FAITHLESS (after being saved by faith) HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....His gift is IRREVOCABLE and it is HIS FAITH that saves us......HIS righteousness and BLOOD have been eternally applied by faith.......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#485
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#485
Nat2019 said:
Sure:)
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You may think this is a joke or funny.....and make no mistake, it is deadly serious with eternal results.....there is one gospel not two, three or fifty.....

Faith plus = no power to save and lost
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#486
Jul 14, 2019
890
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#486
dcontroversal said:
You cannot alleviate context and then make it up as you go.....end of story......
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And by saying "end of story" your saying end of story to another person's beliefs. Not allowing them to Express them. I never said End of Story to your statements. You have a right to have your own beliefs.
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#487
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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#487
dcontroversal said:
No, as apploed to salvation, justification it is written in both perfect tense Greek verb and also Aorist tense Greek verb.....it is an ongoing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION......was saved, am saved and continuing to be saved based upon my past completed action of SAVING FAITH......the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD are IRREVOCABLE.....and exactly why it states that if we BECOME FAITHLESS (after being saved by faith) HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....His gift is IRREVOCABLE and it is HIS FAITH that saves us......HIS righteousness and BLOOD have been eternally applied by faith.......
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Sure, that's your view of the bible. Have your view:)
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#488
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#488
dcontroversal said:
You may think this is a joke or funny.....and make no mistake, it is deadly serious with eternal results.....there is one gospel not two, three or fifty.....

Faith plus = no power to save and lost
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You dont need to be unkind:(.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#489
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#489
Nat2019 said:
And by saying "end of story" your saying end of story to another person's beliefs. Not allowing them to Express them. I never said End of Story to your statements. You have a right to have your own beliefs.
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If you want to believe you can ignore context, make it up as you go and deny biblical truth it is the end of the story with a bad ending coming for you......just saying.....I could care less what you believe, but make no mistake....I will, tooth and nail oppose false gospels and scripture just ripped from the bible and hung on false belief systems that lead to the flaming pit!
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#490
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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#490
dcontroversal said:
You may think this is a joke or funny.....and make no mistake, it is deadly serious with eternal results.....there is one gospel not two, three or fifty.....

Faith plus = no power to save and lost
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Your view of the gospel is YOUR view remember that:). It might not be someone else's and also no one is talking about Faith + works separately. But Faith that produces good works.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#491
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#491
Nat2019 said:
Sure, that's your view of the bible. Have your view:)
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Not harldy....that is the definition amd accurate understanding of the words and exactly what they meant to a 1st century believer....see how your version works out for you
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#492
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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#492
dcontroversal said:
If you want to believe you can ignore context, make it up as you go and deny biblical truth it is the end of the story with a bad ending coming for you......just saying.....I could care less what you believe, but make no mistake....I will, tooth and nail oppose false gospels and scripture just ripped from the bible and hung on false belief systems that lead to the flaming pit!
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Sure you want to view me as your enemy. But God tells me to love my enemies and pray for those who persecute me. I can understand your point of view, because I used to believe the same things as you:)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#493
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#493
And
Nat2019 said:
Your view of the gospel is YOUR view remember that:). It might not be someone else's and also no one is talking about Faith + works separately. But Faith that produces good works.
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I already quoted scripture that proves your view is false.....

What does the following mean.....see if you can honestly lay it out....we will wait

However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness,
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#494
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#494
Nat2019 said:
Sure you want to view me as your enemy. But God tells me to love my enemies and pray for those who persecute me. I can understand your point of view, because I used to believe the same things as you:)
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Hardly......and you are still sounding like Fran.......she said the same thing
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#495
Jul 14, 2019
890
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#495
dcontroversal said:
Not harldy....that is the definition amd accurate understanding of the words and exactly what they meant to a 1st century believer....see how your version works out for you
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Its doesn't matter how many times I say I am not justified by works alone, you still won't believe me. So nothing I say will change your mind.
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#497
Jul 14, 2019
890
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#497
Wh
dcontroversal said:
And

I already quoted scripture that proves your view is false.....

What does the following mean.....see if you can honestly lay it out....we will wait

However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness,
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Why do you only quote that scripture?. I told you I agree. But our definition of "Faith" is different.
 
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Nat2019

Active member
#500
Jul 14, 2019
890
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#500
Nat2019 said:
Not sure who Fran is?
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I read the bible for myself.
dcontroversal said:
Sorry....not being unkind...I just hate false gospels
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Just because someone states other scriptures in the bible, it doesn't mean they are following a false Gospel. I just view all scriptures instead as you can see. Because viewing a couple of scriptures won't help you truly understand Gods word. It's like studying part of something, in study and then applying it to work placement. You won't have the skills needed to COMPLETE the job.
 
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