Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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N

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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M
Nat2019 said:
-If you think it is your righteousness that will help you get to heaven...
You are sorely mistaken

*Do you people ever stop judging and attacking another's beliefs?
Click to expand...
No where have I said my own righteousness will get me to heaven. You just seem to be so adamant to destroy another person's beliefs and make false judgments based, with no evidence as to what they believe. You dont even know my beliefs in full.

By the way I am saved by Faith as well. So what can you say now.

Oh because I deny John Calvin's theology I am going to hell.

Jesus saves, not John Calvin's 5 points.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Nat2019 said:
IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS inst in the bible.
Click to expand...
To the contrary: Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God IMPUTES righteousness apart from works.
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
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Mar 24, 2019
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Nat2019 said:
-If you think it is your righteousness that will help you get to heaven...
You are sorely mistaken

*Do you people ever stop judging and attacking another's beliefs?
Click to expand...
Nat2019 said:
M

No where have I said my own righteousness will get me to heaven. You just seem to be so adamant to destroy another person's beliefs and make false judgments based, with no evidence as to what they believe. You dont even know my beliefs in full.

By the way I am saved by Faith as well. So what can you say now.

Oh because I deny John Calvin's theology I am going to hell.

Jesus saves, not John Calvin's 5 points.
Click to expand...

You addressed nothing and play victim while tossing false accusations...
🤔

Strange.


Well when you said there is no imputed righteousness in the bible, after replying to a post that wasn't directed at you (the first of which you just informed me I'm entitled to opinions...which is weird again)

I made an assumption at what you meant by your vague post.

It is the righteousness of Jesus which gets us in to heaven. (this righteousness is indeed given to the body of Christ by grace through faith)


but I used the word "if" and never implied i knew what you meant


now you post and post in your emotions again with nothing of value seemingly trying to be a victim
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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Nat2019 said:
A was at the bus stop a few years ago and a women told me "God loves you", then she looked down on a man with missing fingers, who had a drinking problem and gave him evil eyes. Why not tell the drunk man that God Loves him. But no she looked down at him with disgust. Such fake love, only choosing who you will love.

Alot of you people are exacly like this women from OSAS. You look down on others with disgust and I read your comments:(
Click to expand...
Way to lump everybody into one neat tidy box!

What we LOATHE is those who think that Jesus, after giving you new life, can FAIL to keep you HIS:

So let's run this down. You know all the Scriptures I'm referencing so I won't at this time list them and instead formulate them into reasoning this out.

You are dead in your sin. You are presented with, and hear THE Gospel unto Salvation. Your faith THAT GOD GAVE YOU is activated and you confess with your mouth AND believe in your heart. You are born again from above at that moment, sealed with the Holy Spirit, and become a born again Child of God.

Jesus tells us He will NEVER leave nor forsake you. That He is the founder and perfecter of your faith. That you are in His Hands AND His father's hands, and NO ONE (including you) can pluck you out of Them. He says that NO CREATED THING (YOU are a created thing) can separate you from Him. He says this gift of faith and Salvation is irrevocable. He says that EVEN if YOU stumble and lose faith and deny Him HE can't deny himself, because HE is in you. There is MUCH more but just this is MORE than enough.

Now you come along and say that it is YOU that has to maintain your Salvation by keeping your faith, by forgiving others, by not living a life of sin etc.... You make Him not only a liar, but an impotent failure! That somehow He will revoke the faith He gave you and you will no longer be His Child, and YOU have separated yourself from His Love, that you have bit His Hand forcing Him to let you jump out, that He is NOT going to perfect your faith. That He IS going to leave and forsake you.

Many of the passages you cite you confuse a DESCRIPTION of what a Christian IS, with a PRESCRIPTION of things that a Christian must do or not do to attain or retain Salvation.

Also, many of the passages are there for us to examine ourselves to see if we are indeed a born again Child of God. For instance, if we don't forgive and hold a grudge, if we are caught up in a sin and aren't even bothered by it, if we don't love people, etc... THEN we better examine ourselves to make our election sure, and that we HAVE been born again.

So I would sincerely ask you, WHO are you trusting in to perfect your faith, and keep you saved? You or Christ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#665
Nat2019 said:
But your truth is your own opinion. It's not Truth but a personal view you have of the bible.
Click to expand...
Eternal life is eternal not conditional, as you imply

Its not my opinion its the word of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#666
#666
PennEd said:
Way to lump everybody into one neat tidy box!

What we LOATHE is those who think that Jesus, after giving you new life, can FAIL to keep you HIS:

So let's run this down. You know all the Scriptures I'm referencing so I won't at this time list them and instead formulate them into reasoning this out.

You are dead in your sin. You are presented with, and hear THE Gospel unto Salvation. Your faith THAT GOD GAVE YOU is activated and you confess with your mouth AND believe in your heart. You are born again from above at that moment, sealed with the Holy Spirit, and become a born again Child of God.

Jesus tells us He will NEVER leave nor forsake you. That He is the founder and perfecter of your faith. That you are in His Hands AND His father's hands, and NO ONE (including you) can pluck you out of Them. He says that NO CREATED THING (YOU are a created thing) can separate you from Him. He says this gift of faith and Salvation is irrevocable. He says that EVEN if YOU stumble and lose faith and deny Him HE can't deny himself, because HE is in you. There is MUCH more but just this is MORE than enough.

Now you come along and say that it is YOU that has to maintain your Salvation by keeping your faith, by forgiving others, by not living a life of sin etc.... You make Him not only a liar, but an impotent failure! That somehow He will revoke the faith He gave you and you will no longer be His Child, and YOU have separated yourself from His Love, that you have bit His Hand forcing Him to let you jump out, that He is NOT going to perfect your faith. That He IS going to leave and forsake you.

Many of the passages you cite you confuse a DESCRIPTION of what a Christian IS, with a PRESCRIPTION of things that a Christian must do or not do to attain or retain Salvation.

Also, many of the passages are there for us to examine ourselves to see if we are indeed a born again Child of God. For instance, if we don't forgive and hold a grudge, if we are caught up in a sin and aren't even bothered by it, if we don't love people, etc... THEN we better examine ourselves to make our election sure, and that we HAVE been born again.

So I would sincerely ask you, WHO are you trusting in to perfect your faith, and keep you saved? You or Christ?
Click to expand...
Well said brother
 
preston39

preston39

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dcontroversal said:
You cannot alleviate context and then make it up as you go.....end of story......
Click to expand...
You seem to do that quite often...ineffective, I might add. How come the change...or are you saying......make up the meaning as you go?
 
preston39

preston39

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Nat2019 said:
-If you think it is your righteousness that will help you get to heaven...You are sorely mistaken.......
Click to expand...
Really...then what will...pray tell?
Do you now what righteous ....is?
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
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Jul 14, 2019
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OneOfHis said:
You addressed nothing and play victim while tossing false accusations...
🤔

Strange.


Well when you said there is no imputed righteousness in the bible, after replying to a post that wasn't directed at you (the first of which you just informed me I'm entitled to opinions...which is weird again)

I made an assumption at what you meant by your vague post.

It is the righteousness of Jesus which gets us in to heaven. (this righteousness is indeed given to the body of Christ by grace through faith)


but I used the word "if" and never implied i knew what you meant


now you post and post in your emotions again with nothing of value seemingly trying to be a victim
Click to expand...
Sorry I cant really be bothering replying anymore. I think I have ran out of energy dealing with you people. Dealing with pr
PennEd said:
Way to lump everybody into one neat tidy box!

What we LOATHE is those who think that Jesus, after giving you new life, can FAIL to keep you HIS:

So let's run this down. You know all the Scriptures I'm referencing so I won't at this time list them and instead formulate them into reasoning this out.

You are dead in your sin. You are presented with, and hear THE Gospel unto Salvation. Your faith THAT GOD GAVE YOU is activated and you confess with your mouth AND believe in your heart. You are born again from above at that moment, sealed with the Holy Spirit, and become a born again Child of God.

Jesus tells us He will NEVER leave nor forsake you. That He is the founder and perfecter of your faith. That you are in His Hands AND His father's hands, and NO ONE (including you) can pluck you out of Them. He says that NO CREATED THING (YOU are a created thing) can separate you from Him. He says this gift of faith and Salvation is irrevocable. He says that EVEN if YOU stumble and lose faith and deny Him HE can't deny himself, because HE is in you. There is MUCH more but just this is MORE than enough.

Now you come along and say that it is YOU that has to maintain your Salvation by keeping your faith, by forgiving others, by not living a life of sin etc.... You make Him not only a liar, but an impotent failure! That somehow He will revoke the faith He gave you and you will no longer be His Child, and YOU have separated yourself from His Love, that you have bit His Hand forcing Him to let you jump out, that He is NOT going to perfect your faith. That He IS going to leave and forsake you.

Many of the passages you cite you confuse a DESCRIPTION of what a Christian IS, with a PRESCRIPTION of things that a Christian must do or not do to attain or retain Salvation.

Also, many of the passages are there for us to examine ourselves to see if we are indeed a born again Child of God. For instance, if we don't forgive and hold a grudge, if we are caught up in a sin and aren't even bothered by it, if we don't love people, etc... THEN we better examine ourselves to make our election sure, and that we HAVE been born again.

So I would sincerely ask you, WHO are you trusting in to perfect your faith, and keep you saved? You or Christ?
Click to expand...
PennEd said:
Way to lump everybody into one neat tidy box!

What we LOATHE is those who think that Jesus, after giving you new life, can FAIL to keep you HIS:

So let's run this down. You know all the Scriptures I'm referencing so I won't at this time list them and instead formulate them into reasoning this out.

You are dead in your sin. You are presented with, and hear THE Gospel unto Salvation. Your faith THAT GOD GAVE YOU is activated and you confess with your mouth AND believe in your heart. You are born again from above at that moment, sealed with the Holy Spirit, and become a born again Child of God.

Jesus tells us He will NEVER leave nor forsake you. That He is the founder and perfecter of your faith. That you are in His Hands AND His father's hands, and NO ONE (including you) can pluck you out of Them. He says that NO CREATED THING (YOU are a created thing) can separate you from Him. He says this gift of faith and Salvation is irrevocable. He says that EVEN if YOU stumble and lose faith and deny Him HE can't deny himself, because HE is in you. There is MUCH more but just this is MORE than enough.

Now you come along and say that it is YOU that has to maintain your Salvation by keeping your faith, by forgiving others, by not living a life of sin etc.... You make Him not only a liar, but an impotent failure! That somehow He will revoke the faith He gave you and you will no longer be His Child, and YOU have separated yourself from His Love, that you have bit His Hand forcing Him to let you jump out, that He is NOT going to perfect your faith. That He IS going to leave and forsake you.

Many of the passages you cite you confuse a DESCRIPTION of what a Christian IS, with a PRESCRIPTION of things that a Christian must do or not do to attain or retain Salvation.

Also, many of the passages are there for us to examine ourselves to see if we are indeed a born again Child of God. For instance, if we don't forgive and hold a grudge, if we are caught up in a sin and aren't even bothered by it, if we don't love people, etc... THEN we better examine ourselves to make our election sure, and that we HAVE been born again.

So I would sincerely ask you, WHO are you trusting in to perfect your faith, and keep you saved? You or Christ?
Click to expand...
2 Timothy 4:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Osas is a pleasing Gospel to hear, but isn't biblical

1 Timothy 4 1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Refutes OSAS lie- a believer cant fall away.

Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Refutes OSAS lie- a person can get to heaven without holiness.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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Nat2019 said:
Sorry I cant really be bothering replying anymore. I think I have ran out of energy dealing with you people. Dealing with pr



2 Timothy 4:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Osas is a pleasing Gospel to hear, but isn't biblical

1 Timothy 4 1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Refutes OSAS lie- a believer cant fall away.

Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Refutes OSAS lie- a person can get to heaven without holiness.
Click to expand...
Nice. Don't address a SINGLE point made and throw out a couple of verses that have no bearing on what's being discussed.

But you are right about 1 thing. OSAS, or eternal security is definitely a lie for those who have deceived themselves into thinking they are children of the One True King!

So the real question isn't is OSAS true. It's have YOU truly been born again?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#671
PennEd said:
Nice. Don't address a SINGLE point made and throw out a couple of verses that have no bearing on what's being discussed.

But you are right about 1 thing. OSAS, or eternal security is definitely a lie for those who have deceived themselves into thinking they are children of the One True King!

So the real question isn't is OSAS true. It's have YOU truly been born again?
Click to expand...
Sadly I have come to think people who hate osas are against Calvinism and that’s their beef. They think it is a Calvinist teaching. So they must stand against it

Sad that they are so busy trying to defeat a doctrine they hate they can’t see the truth of security in Christ
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#672
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#672
Nat2019 said:
Sorry I cant really be bothering replying anymore. I think I have ran out of energy dealing with you people. Dealing with pr



2 Timothy 4:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Osas is a pleasing Gospel to hear, but isn't biblical

1 Timothy 4 1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Refutes OSAS lie- a believer cant fall away.

Hebrews 12:14 New International Version (NIV)
Warning and Encouragement
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Refutes OSAS lie- a person can get to heaven without holiness.
Click to expand...
You say I dead in my sin, I say you are dead by a false gospel. That is
mailmandan said:
To the contrary: Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God IMPUTES righteousness apart from works.
Click to expand...
Do you read any other verses? No good works of Course;). You seem to want to avoid any scriptures with "good works"

1 John 3:24 ESV / 179 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

- oh did a legalist write this verse?

Titus 3:1 ESV / 112 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

- Did a legalist write this verse?

James 1:22 ESV /
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Did a legalist write this?
eternally-gratefull said:
Sadly I have come to think people who hate osas are against Calvinism and that’s their beef. They think it is a Calvinist teaching. So they must stand against it

Sad that they are so busy trying to defeat a doctrine they hate they can’t see the truth of security in Christ
Click to expand...
I have seen it differently today. You look through the posts and see all the OSAS believers defending their beliefs. So you cant just be one sided.
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
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Jul 14, 2019
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#673
Nat2019 said:
You say I dead in my sin, I say you are dead by a false gospel. That is

Do you read any other verses? No good works of Course;). You seem to want to avoid any scriptures with "good works"

1 John 3:24 ESV / 179 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

- oh did a legalist write this verse?

Titus 3:1 ESV / 112 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

- Did a legalist write this verse?

James 1:22 ESV /
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Did a legalist write this?

I have seen it differently today. You look through the posts and see all the OSAS believers defending their beliefs. So you cant just be one sided.
Click to expand...
But the
PennEd said:
Nice. Don't address a SINGLE point made and throw out a couple of verses that have no bearing on what's being discussed.

But you are right about 1 thing. OSAS, or eternal security is definitely a lie for those who have deceived themselves into thinking they are children of the One True King!

So the real question isn't is OSAS true. It's have YOU truly been born again?
Click to expand...
Sorry I am not sure why some writing is at the top of my verses. I didnt want to send that part:(
 
N

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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#674
Nat2019 said:
But the


Sorry I am not sure why some writing is at the top of my verses. I didnt want to send that part:(
Click to expand...
Sorry, Yes a person is eternally secure if they are with Christ, but that doesn't mean they cant fall away.
 
N

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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#675
Nat2019 said:
But the


Sorry I am not sure why some writing is at the top of my verses. I didnt want to send that part:(
Click to expand...
How do I delete some of my messages?. Please some of them aren't what I wanted posted. I dont know how to fix them I am new to the site.
 
N

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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#676
eternally-gratefull said:
Sadly I have come to think people who hate osas are against Calvinism and that’s their beef. They think it is a Calvinist teaching. So they must stand against it

Sad that they are so busy trying to defeat a doctrine they hate they can’t see the truth of security in Christ
Click to expand...
Sorry I cant find your message.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#677
#677
Nat2019 said:
Sorry, Yes a person is eternally secure if they are with Christ, but that doesn't mean they cant fall away.
Click to expand...
We do not fall away, we are born again once (regenerated from above) and no one can unbirth themselves.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
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Apr 7, 2014
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#678
Nat2019 said:
You say I dead in my sin, I say you are dead by a false gospel. That is

Do you read any other verses? No good works of Course;). You seem to want to avoid any scriptures with "good works"

1 John 3:24 ESV / 179 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

- oh did a legalist write this verse?

Titus 3:1 ESV / 112 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

- Did a legalist write this verse?

James 1:22 ESV /
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Did a legalist write this?

I have seen it differently today. You look through the posts and see all the OSAS believers defending their beliefs. So you cant just be one sided.
Click to expand...
Don’t confuse “descriptive” passages of scripture with “prescriptive” passages of scripture.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#679
#679
Nat2019 said:
How do I delete some of my messages?. Please some of them aren't what I wanted posted. I dont know how to fix them I am new to the site.
Click to expand...
You need to contact a moderator... OnceFallen perhaps.
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#680
Jul 14, 2019
890
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#680
eternally-gratefull said:
Sadly I have come to think people who hate osas are against Calvinism and that’s their beef. They think it is a Calvinist teaching. So they must stand against it

Sad that they are so busy trying to defeat a doctrine they hate they can’t see the truth of security in Christ
Click to expand...
OSAS think Non-OSAS believers are working for their salvation (self righteous people), so they try and come against us too. But their ideas of conditional security are actually false. Because we believe we are saved by faith. So stop accusing us for working for our salvation. Because we dont believe believe that. At least I have done my studies of Calvinism. But have you studied conditional security?. Your faith is faith alone- not mentioned in the bible. Faith with works is only mentioned. So who's correct according to the bible. You are secure with real faith, not demon faith. All in the bible;)
 
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