Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Jan 12, 2019
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Yes, because you're trying to deny that the prodigal son returned with humility. You're trying to say he was still selfish and only cared about his belly. That is out of context.
:ROFL:. Now I can understand better why you had those objections to my own testimony about how I put my faith in Jesus.

To me, the "star" of the parable of the prodigal son is actually the Father, who had such a lavish love for his son, despite the son not having the "correct" reasons to return to him. Okay, thanks for clarifying.
 

Nat2019

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man's languages are becoming worse and worse to the point that they, including English, have become a tower of BABBLE, so they cannot be relied upon to explain God's Holy Spirit inspired Word and Truth which rises above man's languages, cultures, ... His Word is ALL for ALL for ALL time and God is not the author of confusion, so if we rely upon Him and not on fallible man the creation to explain His Word, we will do well .. if we rely on man to tell us what God says and means, we will utterly fail
You should not be using book of Isaiah to refer to Jesus sacrifice covering your sins because-

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The blood of bulls and goats only "cleanses the flesh"

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

1 John 1:7, NIV: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with oneanother, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Jesus blood purifies from all sin. The law with sacrifices year after your could not make the "comers" there unto perfect.
Hebrews 9:13-10:18King James Version (KJV)

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin
 

Nat2019

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You know, I really just simply don't even worry at all about losing my salvation. I'm in such a loving and tender relationship with The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.....there is no fear at all in love.

If I had to maintain this relationship by walking on pins and needles......afraid God is going to throw me back out if I stumble and sin........what kind of a relationship would that be? Horrible. It would be fear based instead of love based. I choose love. :love:(y)
Matthew 10:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 8:13

The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.

Job 28:28
And he said to man, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’”

Ecclesiastes 12:13
The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

Proverbs 3:7
Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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:ROFL:. Now I can understand better why you had those objections to my own testimony about how I put my faith in Jesus.

To me, the "star" of the parable of the prodigal son is actually the Father, who had such a lavish love for his son, despite the son not having the "correct" reasons to return to him. Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Guojing, you're twisting the scriptures again.......:rolleyes:
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Guojing, you're twisting the scriptures again.......:rolleyes:
He's not "twisting" anything. These are Guojings ideas. Please respect others. If you have a different view state it but dont accuse others of "twisting" the bible because they view it differently.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Guojing, you're twisting the scriptures again.......:rolleyes:
It is interesting that when people learn different things from the scripture than you, you think they are "twisting the scriptures".

That sounds so arrogant to me. Do you notice, for you, I just concluded that "you are set on that interpretation"?
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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People that have different ideas on the bible arent "twisting" it they see it di
It is interesting that when people learn different things from the scripture than you, you think they are "twisting the scriptures".

That sounds so arrogant to me. Do you notice, for you, I just concluded that "you are set on that interpretation"?
Your not deliberately twisting the bible. You are still learning about the bible, just like everyone else. That's why this discussion is here. So we can discuss what's in the bible;)
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Matthew 10:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 8:13

The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.

Job 28:28
And he said to man, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’”

Ecclesiastes 12:13
The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

Proverbs 3:7
Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.
I am VERY much at peace with God. I have absolutely NO FEAR of losing my salvation. I am free to enjoy a loving and abiding relationship with my Savior, Lord and King.....with my Heavenly Father......and sweet communion with the Holy Spirit........there is just no fear in me.........I sleep well at night and I do not freak out if I stumble over sin.

As a new believer, I stumbled a lot here and there but, as I matured and became rooted and grounded more and more in His Word and in His Love for me.......sin is less and less. I'm shining brighter and brighter. He's perfecting EVERYTHING that concerns me.

I get back up, He cleans me up and onward we go, He never leaves me.......He stays right with me, even catches me at times......His love is amazing!

There's no need to put people under the bondage of works for keeping and maintaining salvation. It leaves no room for a loving relationship to thrive.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Either one of the two, one accounts for the things necessary to be done to acquire salvation or they account them done by the Savior. What doe Savior mean again?
 

Nat2019

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People that have different ideas on the bible arent "twisting" it they see it di

Your not deliberately twisting the bible. You are still learning about the bible, just like everyone else. That's why this discussion is here. So we can
I am VERY much at peace with God. I have absolutely NO FEAR of losing my salvation. I am free to enjoy a loving and abiding relationship with my Savior, Lord and King.....with my Heavenly Father......and sweet communion with the Holy Spirit........there is just no fear in me.........I sleep well at night and I do not freak out if I stumble over sin.

As a new believer, I stumbled a lot here and there but, as I matured and became rooted and grounded more and more in His Word and in His Love for me.......sin is less and less. I'm shining brighter and brighter. He's perfecting EVERYTHING that concerns me.

I get back up, He cleans me up on onward we go, He never leaves me.......He stays right with me, even catches me at times......His love is amazing!

There's no need to put people under the bondage of works for keeping and maintaining salvation. It leaves no room for a loving relationship to thrive.
-There's no need to put people under the bondage of works for keeping and maintaining salvation. It leaves no room for a loving relationship to thrive.
I AM NOT Putting people under bondage. Nor do I teach works alone for salvation. Only Faith-works=dead faith.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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[…]
^ Used also in Hebrews 3:12 : "Take heed, brothers, lest ever there will be in any [singular] of you [plural] an evil [G4190 - ponēra] heart of unbelief [G570], into falling away from the living God."
[…]
So then, verse 18 (of the Heb3 context) uses the word "[G544] Cognate: 544 apeithéō / apeithēsasin – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia)."... [ylt-->]"and to whom did He swear that they shall not enter into His rest, except to those who did not believe [G544 - apeithéō / apeithēsasin]?"
[…]
...and then verse 19 (of Heb3) uses "G570 - apistian / apistia,"... "And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief [G570]."
To go along with this ^ :

Acts 7 [blb] -

37 This is the Moses having said to the sons of Israel, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me out from your brothers.’ g 38 This is the one having been in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel speaking to him in Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers. He received living oracles to give to us, 39 to whom our fathers were not willing to be obedient, but thrust away, and turned back in their hearts to Egypt, 40 having said to Aaron, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this Moses who brought us out from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has happened to him.’ h

41 And in those days they made a calf and offered a sacrifice to the idol and were rejoicing in the works of their hands. 42 But God turned away and delivered them to worship the host of heaven, as it has been written in the book of the prophets:

‘Did you offer slain beasts and sacrifices to Me

forty years in the wilderness,

O house of Israel?

43 And you took up the tabernacle of Moloch

and the star of your god Rephan,

the images that you made to worship them;

and I will remove you

beyond Babylon.’ i
 

Nat2019

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-There's no need to put people under the bondage of works for keeping and maintaining salvation. It leaves no room for a loving relationship to thrive.
I AM NOT Putting people under bondage. Nor do I teach works alone for salvation. Only Faith-works=dead faith.
Did you know the God of the bible is also wrathful. He has two sides. I know alot of people would rather not notice it.
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Did you know the God of the bible is also wrathful. He has two sides. I know alot of people would rather not notice it.
Also the bible says if we dont fear the Lord we lack "wisdom and understanding"
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Did you know the God of the bible is also wrathful. He has two sides. I know alot of people would rather not notice it.
How could I ever fear His wrath when I have known and abide in His Love.........
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Also the bible says if we dont fear the Lord we lack "wisdom and understanding"
Might I recommend you spend more time studying and asking the Holy Spirit about His Love for you personally than being focused so much on fearing God.....
 

Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Either one of the two, one accounts for the things necessary to be done to acquire salvation or they account them done by the Savior. What doe Savior mean again?
How could I ever fear His wrath when I have known and abide in His Love.........
Abiding in his love means Obeying him. He says if we love him we will keep his commandments, that is "abiding" in his love. Yes we are only secure if we " abide" in his love. Which means doing what he commands us to do;)
 

Nat2019

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Abiding in his love means Obeying him. He says if we love him we will keep his commandments, that is "abiding" in his love. Yes we are only secure if we " abide" in his love. Which means doing what he commands us to do;)
Fearing God is turning away from evil. Because we fear him we turn away from evil.

The opposite of obeying God commands is disobeying Gods commands.

If we Disobey Gods commands are we abiding in his love? Or showing him love.

Do we need to LOVE God for eternal life, or is it ONLY God loving us?.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Abiding in his love means Obeying him. He says if we love him we will keep his commandments, that is "abiding" in love. Yes we are only secure if we " abide" in his love. Which means doing what he commands us to do;)

Well no, there's a lot of people who say Jesus is their Savior and that he saved them on the Cross, but then even though they said that set out to do stuff they think they need to do to be saved(one act denies the other).
 

Nat2019

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Well no, there's a lot of people who say Jesus is their Savior and that he saved them on the Cross, but then even though they said that set out to do stuff they think they need to do to be saved(one act denies the other).
What people are you talking about?
 

Nat2019

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Might I recommend you spend more time studying and asking the Holy Spirit about His Love for you personally than being focused so much on fearing God.....
I already know Gods love for me, he sent his only son to die for me. That's the love spoken about in the bible.