Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[posthuman]

Greetings Posthuman,

When you say Jesus does not equal the Law I think you are overlooking something. Besides the scripture declaring that Jesus is the “I Am”, the same “I Am” that gave Moses the Law, the same “I Am” which was The Word who became flesh, you have the principal which the scriptures exude from one cover to the other cover that God is His Words!

You can say that Gods words, every one of them are truth.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and The Life!

Gods words are His Will. God is pure light. Where we humans often lie or get confused or pursue sinful lusts and speak about nonsense, essentially whatever is in our heart. As Jesus said;

Luk 6:45 KJV A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When God speaks it is an expression of Himself. His laws were and are an expression of Himself. He cannot speak anything other that the light that is in Him.

Jas 1:17-18 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke those laws to Moses. There was/is nothing imperfect, inadequate, insufficient or incomplete about those laws. All of those attributes were aspects of our hearts, not Gods laws or Paul would have never said;

Rom 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I am not pushing over to the other side of the ditch, but I am saying that there is no way in my understanding to separate God and Jesus from His Laws.

Joh 6:63 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There have been times when wanting to somehow quantify the Holy Spirit that I have come across the thought that The Holy Spirit is Gods Laws/Will/Words. So any blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or Gods Laws is unforgivable.

When I read John 14:21 where Jesus says;

Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I take away from this that to know and obey Jesus words it the only way to know Him and Love Him. He confirms this in;

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where He declares if you are “anomia” without the law, you are without me, ( I never knew you) A stretch? I don’t think so. But, does this mean that the law is now our means of Justification/Redemption? NO! But does it mean that many who possible overlook the Laws of God are actually ignoring Him?

here's another question:

Adam and Eve were given every green seed-bearing plant for food. ((Genesis 1:29))
Noah was given every animal for food. ((Genesis 9:2))
later, the Hebrews were given many restrictions on diet. ((Leviticus 11, etc etc))
then Paul calls all food clean if it's received with thanks ((1 Timothy 4:4))

does this mean God changes?

 

[DeighAnn]

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. ((Hebrews 13:8))
if Christ = the Law, what's the deal with the change in the Law regarding circumcision?

All blood sacrifice and ordinances abolished by the Lamb of God, who doesn't want sacrifice, wants our love.

 

[Guojing]

here's another question:

Adam and Eve were given every green seed-bearing plant for food. ((Genesis 1:29))
Noah was given every animal for food. ((Genesis 9:2))
later, the Hebrews were given many restrictions on diet. ((Leviticus 11, etc etc))
then Paul calls all food clean if it's received with thanks ((1 Timothy 4:4))

does this mean God changes?

Ahh, its interesting to see you recognizing this and yet you appear to reject dispensationalism, the idea that the salvation plan, even if it has always been by grace thru faith, man needed to respond differently, at different times, in order to show faith.

 

[posthuman]

Greetings Posthuman,

When you say Jesus does not equal the Law I think you are overlooking something. Besides the scripture declaring that Jesus is the “I Am”, the same “I Am” that gave Moses the Law, the same “I Am” which was The Word who became flesh, you have the principal which the scriptures exude from one cover to the other cover that God is His Words!

You can say that Gods words, every one of them are truth.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and The Life!

Gods words are His Will. God is pure light. Where we humans often lie or get confused or pursue sinful lusts and speak about nonsense, essentially whatever is in our heart. As Jesus said;

Luk 6:45 KJV A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

When God speaks it is an expression of Himself. His laws were and are an expression of Himself. He cannot speak anything other that the light that is in Him.

Jas 1:17-18 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We know it was Jesus Himself that spoke those laws to Moses. There was/is nothing imperfect, inadequate, insufficient or incomplete about those laws. All of those attributes were aspects of our hearts, not Gods laws or Paul would have never said;

Rom 7:12 KJV Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I am not pushing over to the other side of the ditch, but I am saying that there is no way in my understanding to separate God and Jesus from His Laws.

Joh 6:63 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There have been times when wanting to somehow quantify the Holy Spirit that I have come across the thought that The Holy Spirit is Gods Laws/Will/Words. So any blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or Gods Laws is unforgivable.

When I read John 14:21 where Jesus says;

Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I take away from this that to know and obey Jesus words it the only way to know Him and Love Him. He confirms this in;

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Where He declares if you are “anomia” without the law, you are without me, ( I never knew you) A stretch? I don’t think so. But, does this mean that the law is now our means of Justification/Redemption? NO! But does it mean that many who possible overlook the Laws of God are actually ignoring Him?

i think a thing is better learned if a person reaches the conclusion for themselves, than it is if someone just declares it to them and expects them to memorize it. when we reason things out for ourselves, we internalize it. when we're just told 'this is the rationale' we might accept it, but it doesn't carry the same weight in our mind as things we have come to through our own thoughts.

so i hope you don't mind me answering your question with more questions. the reason i do it is to prod you to think about these things for yourself, and come to a conclusion on your own -- questions like the ones i replied to are very closely related to what you were asking me about, and whatever the answer to your question is, the *right* answer has to fall in line with the answers to the questions i asked -- you know? if we conclude that the Sinai covenant Law is the unchanging word of Christ, we have to explain why circumcision is changed. we have to explain why food laws are changed. sacrifices. temple ordinances. jubilee. new moon festivals. breaking the neck of firstborn animals if they aren't redeemed in temple currency. tzitzit.

why did the church refuse to impose the Law on the gentile believers in Acts 15?
whatever view we take of the relationship between Christ, the Sinai covenant Law, and the church, it is not the right one if it leads us to any other conclusion but the same one reached in Acts 15. it's not the right understanding if it doesn't logically result in the same conclusion as Galatians 5. it has to bring us to say, if someone regards a day, he does it to the Lord, and if someone does not, he does not to the Lord - let each be convinced in his own mind.
it may not be the thing that seems immediately most reasonable to us, but whatever the correct view of this is, it has to jive with these other things. so we have to ask these other questions.

 

[posthuman]

All blood sacrifice and ordinances abolished by the Lamb of God, who doesn't want sacrifice, wants our love.

I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God — this is your true and proper worship.
(Romans 12:1) ​

​

 

[posthuman]

All blood sacrifice and ordinances abolished by the Lamb of God, who doesn't want sacrifice, wants our love.

did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer have to keep the sacrifices of the law of Moses?

 

[SimpleGardner]

here's another question:

Adam and Eve were given every green seed-bearing plant for food. ((Genesis 1:29))
Noah was given every animal for food. ((Genesis 9:2))
later, the Hebrews were given many restrictions on diet. ((Leviticus 11, etc etc))
then Paul calls all food clean if it's received with thanks ((1 Timothy 4:4))

does this mean God changes?

No, God does not change.

When a mans position changes relative to God there may appear to be a change, but that change can be characterized as God's influence over a man as a man enters into fellowship with God.

A Man who walks outside the influence of Gods Order might:

Smoke
Drink
Do Drugs
Eat Pork
Any Factory meat
the list is endless

But if that man enters Gods sphere of influence he may abandon all of those things for many reasons

I was in the medical field long enough and at a level where I could see the influences of many of the things listed above.

So, another Law, or "Point of Order" engages me. That being that I am part of the Temple.
Do I then consider antibiotics, hormones, stockyard practices, GMO grains etc, etc when I consider what I may or may not eat?
I know I am speaking to a man who thinks, so you can answer that. So then perhaps I will eat deer, that should be fine, or should it? I live in Rural America and I know the grasses in our pastures are poisonous. Petroleum based fertilizers, systemic herbicides like 2 4 D are in all the pasture grasses, not to mention the runoff into streams, creeks, rivers.

Water is another consideration. Did you know almost all municipal water systems have unhealthy levels of estrogen? Women take birth control, piss out the excess estrogen, it goes into the waste system and in municipalities that reclaim and reuse their water the estrogen remains after the purification process. Now young men, especially in larger municipalities are essentially being given doses of hormones that combat the male hormone testosterone. You can think through the "pathogenesis" of the sudden uptick of sins of transgender and homosexuality! If you think you have gone back to the original catalyst, go further! I'm not giving transgenders and homosexuals a pass at all, but there is culpability everywhere!

I could go on regarding the essential commandment to guard the temple and whether it is written or not that certain meats are "kosher" or acceptable "scripturally" must be considered but in light of all the above and more!

Here are a few questions for you:

I have listed just a few of the influences on food and water today which I think you will agree are significant, so:

What were the influences on animal flesh prior to the flood?

What were the influences on animal flesh after the flood?

Men are intelligent, I know what the influences of pork flesh are on the Human vascular system over other meats. It is staggering! Don't you think many men, thinking men, observant men, have over time put two and two together and recognized the harm certain foods had on peoples lives?

Similar to my observation above, do you think men who entered into God's sphere of influence would receive wisdom and instruction from being within that sphere? If so, might that wisdom be recorded according to men's proximity to God?

When Paul says as you cite it; "all food is clean if received with thanks" doesn't he also say;

1Co 6:12 KJV All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Technically speaking we could say that most meat, fish included, and even water today, and hey, lets put it all in there even fruits and vegetables are poisonous. Is poisonous food and drink expedient?

I think we both know the honest answer, so what do we do with all of the commercial food and water of today? If we eat it are we sinning against the temple? If so, then what? Now we are getting into territory where we might even say a person who choses safe alternatives is fleeing "coming out of Babylon", or the Babylonian system of commercial control to avoid her plagues and so on ans so forth!

I have answered your core question which you already knew and your peripheral questions are volleyed back to you. No, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer as EG says. My formal education is moderate, but my Creator has opened my eyes to "see" some of the things here.

 

[SimpleGardner]

simple question:

why is physical circumcision not only no longer commanded, but, per Galatians, may be in some contexts tantamount spitting on the cross of Christ, making it of no effect? ((Galatians 5:2))

didn't God command circumcision? to Abraham - hundreds of years before the Law? ((Genesis 17)) and also in the Law also? ((Leviticus 12))

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. ((Hebrews 13:8))
if Christ = the Law, what's the deal with the change in the Law regarding circumcision?

for bonus points, figure out how this meshes with the reason the believers in the Galatian churches were told not to accept circumcision: because if they did, they would be "obligated to keep the whole Law" ((Galatians 5:3)) -- Paul seems to think this is not a good outcome -- why?

I cannot answer all your questions and some of them I will not answer.

If an 8' tall man dressed in animal skins wielding an axe with dried blood in his beard, with an obvious chip on his shoulder comes up to you, bends over, looking you right in the eyes and asks; "do you find big cannibalistic men with axes attractive?" How do you answer?

My point is that many ask questions not looking for answers, but for confirmation, or to back someone into a perceived doctrinal corner. Like I said I have no firm answers for everything yet, and some things I do. In many cases the discovery of these answers came as a price. A price each man must pay to receive the answer. Without paying the price the answer is hidden from a mans mind, reason, intellect. Many commandments are not necessarily given to judge a man by, many are given as gateways to deeper knowledge, wisdom, understanding of God. So, many men who shun the commandments and ways of God, while not necessarily sinning, forfeit paths that lead closer to God.

Psa_119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Pro_4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

I'm not inferring that you shun these, I perceive more understanding in you than perhaps I have, and if we were neighbors who met and discussed Gods word in a one on one manner perhaps the Holy Spirit would open up our sharing options, but on this forum no.

 

[SimpleGardner]

i think a thing is better learned if a person reaches the conclusion for themselves, than it is if someone just declares it to them and expects them to memorize it. when we reason things out for ourselves, we internalize it. when we're just told 'this is the rationale' we might accept it, but it doesn't carry the same weight in our mind as things we have come to through our own thoughts.

so i hope you don't mind me answering your question with more questions. the reason i do it is to prod you to think about these things for yourself, and come to a conclusion on your own -- questions like the ones i replied to are very closely related to what you were asking me about, and whatever the answer to your question is, the *right* answer has to fall in line with the answers to the questions i asked -- you know? if we conclude that the Sinai covenant Law is the unchanging word of Christ, we have to explain why circumcision is changed. we have to explain why food laws are changed. sacrifices. temple ordinances. jubilee. new moon festivals. breaking the neck of firstborn animals if they aren't redeemed in temple currency. tzitzit.

why did the church refuse to impose the Law on the gentile believers in Acts 15?
whatever view we take of the relationship between Christ, the Sinai covenant Law, and the church, it is not the right one if it leads us to any other conclusion but the same one reached in Acts 15. it's not the right understanding if it doesn't logically result in the same conclusion as Galatians 5. it has to bring us to say, if someone regards a day, he does it to the Lord, and if someone does not, he does not to the Lord - let each be convinced in his own mind.
it may not be the thing that seems immediately most reasonable to us, but whatever the correct view of this is, it has to jive with these other things. so we have to ask these other questions.

Thank You PH,

I appreciate your thoughtful answers, and wisdom!

As you stated, we have to find our own conclusions!

Accurate answers to anything we read or hear or see require EVERY SINGLE DETAIL involved in that question or the answer is speculation.

Let's speculate for a minute; Which of the thirteen tribes of Jacob were still under covenant with God when Jesus walked the earth?

Be specific:

I will wait for your reply before proceeding.

 

[lightbearer]

The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is, (In other words) what was just stated Christ, the word in the heart and mouth is the word of faith in which we preach.

What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth.

What is even more interesting is Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made another connection as they compared the two.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

They would have noticed the word, the commandment and statutes written in the book of the Law are the same word mentioned in Romans in which and through Christ has been placed in the heart and mouth.

What is even more Interesting is the prophecy in Deut 30:10-14 is being spoken in the presence tense. So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before.

Since Israel refused the gift. God through Jeremiah repeated it in other words as the New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart. True Faith, Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is the word of Faith in which we preach. And this faith, this word of Faith has been available since the time of Moses and befo


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed From (out of) faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (out of) faith.


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest (shining) in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made this connection as they compared the two.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Through Christ which his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

Then if not before they would of made a connection between the prophecy in Deut, to the one in Jeremiah, the New Covenant. For they are synonymous.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (the word, through Christ) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

A New Ministration ....written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)

The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

here you say the word = Christ

You left out an extremely important part of that paragraph. The explanation.

The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

 

[DeighAnn]

DeighAnn said:
All blood sacrifice and ordinances abolished by the Lamb of God, who doesn't want sacrifice, wants our love.

I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God — this is your true and proper worship. ​

(Romans 12:1) ​

​

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

 

[lightbearer]

Licentiousness is not a christian who sins, If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves

Licentiousness is not a person who struggles with a particular sin habit. Everyone has a besetting sin, some may never find total victory over it

Licentiousness is not a baby in Christ who is still learning and growing, and still does some of his worldly things because he has yet to be trained by it

Licentious is a person who has, well here, Lets let Jude show us who they are. Since he is the one who used the term.

Actually Jesus used the Greek word for Licentiousness and so did Paul. Let's take a look at one of the instances Paul used it.

This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ;

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
(Eph 4:17-20; 5:1-6 KJV)

Let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

How often is once?

Because someone professes Christ are they of Christ? Who is the Judge? Who is a struggling Christian and who is one that is of this world professing to be one and is not?

It seems that you preach if we sin it is ok because we will always sin. I prefer what the Spirit sayeth.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Helper toward the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(1Jn 2:1)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What exactly do you mean by 'law of the spirit'?

Sounds like legalism to me.

What can wash you white as snow? (spotless) Your work at what you imagine to be the law?

What can cause you to be forgiven? (blameless) Your work at what you imagine to be the law?

What can cause you to be at peace with the Perfect, Sinless Christ when you are not perfect or sinless?


Something to really think about, right?

Paul puts it like this
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Corinthians 9

So if you call this legalism, then I suggest you review what is actually legalism.

 

[gb9]

No, God does not change.

When a mans position changes relative to God there may appear to be a change, but that change can be characterized as God's influence over a man as a man enters into fellowship with God.

A Man who walks outside the influence of Gods Order might:

Smoke
Drink
Do Drugs
Eat Pork
Any Factory meat
the list is endless

But if that man enters Gods sphere of influence he may abandon all of those things for many reasons

I was in the medical field long enough and at a level where I could see the influences of many of the things listed above.

So, another Law, or "Point of Order" engages me. That being that I am part of the Temple.
Do I then consider antibiotics, hormones, stockyard practices, GMO grains etc, etc when I consider what I may or may not eat?
I know I am speaking to a man who thinks, so you can answer that. So then perhaps I will eat deer, that should be fine, or should it? I live in Rural America and I know the grasses in our pastures are poisonous. Petroleum based fertilizers, systemic herbicides like 2 4 D are in all the pasture grasses, not to mention the runoff into streams, creeks, rivers.

Water is another consideration. Did you know almost all municipal water systems have unhealthy levels of estrogen? Women take birth control, piss out the excess estrogen, it goes into the waste system and in municipalities that reclaim and reuse their water the estrogen remains after the purification process. Now young men, especially in larger municipalities are essentially being given doses of hormones that combat the male hormone testosterone. You can think through the "pathogenesis" of the sudden uptick of sins of transgender and homosexuality! If you think you have gone back to the original catalyst, go further! I'm not giving transgenders and homosexuals a pass at all, but there is culpability everywhere!

I could go on regarding the essential commandment to guard the temple and whether it is written or not that certain meats are "kosher" or acceptable "scripturally" must be considered but in light of all the above and more!

Here are a few questions for you:

I have listed just a few of the influences on food and water today which I think you will agree are significant, so:

What were the influences on animal flesh prior to the flood?

What were the influences on animal flesh after the flood?

Men are intelligent, I know what the influences of pork flesh are on the Human vascular system over other meats. It is staggering! Don't you think many men, thinking men, observant men, have over time put two and two together and recognized the harm certain foods had on peoples lives?

Similar to my observation above, do you think men who entered into God's sphere of influence would receive wisdom and instruction from being within that sphere? If so, might that wisdom be recorded according to men's proximity to God?

When Paul says as you cite it; "all food is clean if received with thanks" doesn't he also say;

1Co 6:12 KJV All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Technically speaking we could say that most meat, fish included, and even water today, and hey, lets put it all in there even fruits and vegetables are poisonous. Is poisonous food and drink expedient?

I think we both know the honest answer, so what do we do with all of the commercial food and water of today? If we eat it are we sinning against the temple? If so, then what? Now we are getting into territory where we might even say a person who choses safe alternatives is fleeing "coming out of Babylon", or the Babylonian system of commercial control to avoid her plagues and so on ans so forth!

I have answered your core question which you already knew and your peripheral questions are volleyed back to you. No, I'm not a doctor, or lawyer as EG says. My formal education is moderate, but my Creator has opened my eyes to "see" some of the things here.

and this is what I was saying- backdoor Law keeping .

thanks for conforming what I pretty much knew- we maintain righteousness by keeping the Law.

nothing new, just another judeaizer.

 

[Grandpa]

Paul puts it like this
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Corinthians 9

So if you call this legalism, then I suggest you review what is actually legalism.

I know what legalism is. I also know the twisting of scripture that legalists do in order to justify their law keeping.

To disregard the law of the Spirit, love, and its morality, is to become lawless, licentious, and to fall from grace.

So you actually meant the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus but you just shortened it to law of the spirit?

Now it seems like you are doing the same as the other ones who say that Christ = Law.

Is that what you are proposing as well?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I know what legalism is. I also know the twisting of scripture that legalists do in order to justify their law keeping.
So you actually meant the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus but you just shortened it to law of the spirit?
Now it seems like you are doing the same as the other ones who say that Christ = Law.
Is that what you are proposing as well?

This language saddens me. Jesus is love expressed in human form, a heart that does out and meets
our weakness and heals us, so we can walk in His ways.

Christ = love = law of love = reality of loving from the heart, with forgiveness, holiness and purity.

You said I shortened the law of the Spirit of Life to the law of the Spirit.
You shorten the law of love, of victory, of power through walking in the Spirit to one word, law.

1 no condemnation who in Christ Jesus.. 4 live according to the Spirit.
Rom 8

The tree of actions can spring from the heart of love that Jesus has planted or from the mind
of rules and success and failure, hitting the mark.

Do you know the difference I am trying to point out?
I know how my heart responds and my life if I obey rules intellectually, I fail, but in Christ
who speaks from my heart, I find victory.

Now legalists say, is this 100% victory 100% of the time. No. But God asks us to walk, and
when we fail, to repent, confess and walk on. It is why the temple with sacrifices was made,
God knew this was the path of sanctification.

So many say if the path of sanctification is not perfect it is worthless, which is actually just
rebellion against transformation and letting God make us into His perfect workmanship.

 

[SimpleGardner]

and this is what I was saying- backdoor Law keeping .

thanks for conforming what I pretty much knew- we maintain righteousness by keeping the Law.

nothing new, just another judeaizer.

So the slightest hint at wanting to do what is right is wrong?

I actually get a chuckle at the absurdity of your comments!

You remind me of Donald Sutherland in - Invasion of the Righteous Hunters

 

[Dan_473]

Poorly written on my part. Jesus brings the two extremes and meets them in the middle.

Here is my problem with the "Spirit Led Life"

1. If Gods people could exist without Gods Law, He wouldn't have it. He didn't have it, then He did. Now that Satan and his evil spirits are on their way and God is going to say this is a great time to just let my people be just spirit led If that worked no one would need to read the Word.

2 How do you know Whos Spirit you are being led by.

3 If you really love God, you love His laws because they are good and God is good and you love God and you love God as not only your Creator, and Savior, and Father but your government, your society rules,

You know, I erase a lot more than I ever send. I really can be funny, but I thank God I can see that others wouldn't think so

Lots of great ideas in your post, there!

Let's take them one at a time so we don't get confused.
So starting with the first one, that at first there was no law.

Genesis 1: 28. God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Is this a law? A rule that God gave to humans to instruct them how to live?

So there was never a time when there was no law.

What do you mean by saying
Now that Satan and his evil spirits are on their way?

 

[DeighAnn]

So the slightest hint at wanting to do what is right is wrong?

I actually get a chuckle at the absurdity of your comments!

You remind me of Donald Sutherland in - Invasion of the Righteous Hunters

Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith with works

 

[DeighAnn]

So there was never a time when there was no law.

What do you mean by saying
Now that Satan and his evil spirits are on their way?

I don't know what you mean. I am referring to the hour of temptation when Satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven. When he deadly wound is healed when Satan will stand where he ought not proclaiming himself to be god, who Jesus when he returns will destroy him with the brightness of His coming when Satan is bound for the 1000 years in the pit the day the 2 witnesses rise, we are all changed. Only have 3 min before I can't change so in a hurry if I made mistake