Can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior before we have the Spirit of Christ in us.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#1
#1
Rom. 8:9 tells us if we aren't in Him and His Spirit is not in us, we are none of His.

So how can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior first, before we receive His Spirit?

And when we are in the state of not have been given the Spirit of Christ yet, Christ is not ours, this means His word and the promises in His word are not ours yet either.

So how do we receive the Spirit of Christ " first," without making illegitimate claims on Christ, His word, and promises?
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#2
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#2
"But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God--to those believing in His name" John 1:12



... and that ^ was before the point in time that John 7:39 was talking about: "Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to [or, were certain to] receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#3
#3
TheDivineWatermark said:
"But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God--to those believing in His name" John 1:12



... and that ^ was before the point in time that John 7:39 was talking about: "Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to [or, were certain to] receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
Click to expand...
The words believe, believer, and believing are mistranslations.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#4
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#4
Pisteuo said:
Rom. 8:9 tells us if we aren't in Him and His Spirit is not in us, we are none of His.

So how can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior first, before we receive His Spirit?

And when we are in the state of not have been given the Spirit of Christ yet, Christ is not ours, this means His word and the promises in His word are not ours yet either.

So how do we receive the Spirit of Christ " first," without making illegitimate claims on Christ, His word, and promises?
Click to expand...
The Spirit first convicts us of our sins and the need for a Savior, and then reveals that the One Jesus hanging on the cross, and then risen, is the remedy for our sins. When we cry out for the forgiveness of our sins He is just and faithful to forgive us and set His Spirit in us further quickening us to new life.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Gal 3:2)
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#5
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#5
Pisteuo said:
Rom. 8:9 tells us if we aren't in Him and His Spirit is not in us, we are none of His.

So how can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior first, before we receive His Spirit?

And when we are in the state of not have been given the Spirit of Christ yet, Christ is not ours, this means His word and the promises in His word are not ours yet either.

So how do we receive the Spirit of Christ " first," without making illegitimate claims on Christ, His word, and promises?
Click to expand...
This video explains the salvation process clearly. Of course, if you lean more towards Calvinism and total depravity concept, you will likely reject it.

 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#6
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#7
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#7
Yes, we can. When we repent, and ask Christ to come into our lives as Lord and Savior, He WILL! And that is when the "one baptism," baptism of the Holy Spirit by cleansing us of our sin with the precious blood of Christ, is applied.

Now, Sanctification is when we receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit! That can, and sometimes does occur at the same time as Salvation, but not always. We receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit when Sanctified believer(s) lay hands on us and pray over us as Paul taught in Scripture.

In my church, when a person goes to the alter to ask Christ to come into their lives, Elders will go down to the alter with them and as they are kneeling there, will lay hands on them and pray over them, so the receiving of the Holy Spirit is one with their Salvation.

Not all people repent, and ask Christ to come into their lives as Lord and Savior in such a setting however. There are many other places, times this can occur. And, sometimes, when the person is alone. They STILL receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, however, until Sanctified Believers lay hands on them and pray over them, they will not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

These people, and ALL new believers should also be water baptized as soon as possible, IF POSSIBLE. Because Christ told us to be! For those receiving salvation apart from other believers, this time of baptism would be the perfect time for the laying on of hands and praying over.

The Apostle Paul spells all this out in his teachings.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#8
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#8
TDW:
"But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God--to those believing in His name" John 1:12

... and that ^ was before the point in time that John 7:39 was talking about: "Now He said this concerning the Spirit, whom those having believed in Him were about to [or, were certain to] receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
Click to expand...
Pisteuo said:
The words believe, believer, and believing are mistranslations.
Click to expand...

Here's how I see it:

John 1:12 - "believing [G4100]"

G4100 - "I believe, have faith in, trust in"

"1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in"




John 7:39 - "having believed [G4100]"

G4100 - "I believe, have faith in, trust in"

"1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in"


[bold and underline mine]
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#9
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#9
… ^ same for the below:

1 John 5:9-12 -

God's Testimony about His Son

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing [G4100] in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing [G4100] God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed [G4100] in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
 
I-Am-Murica

I-Am-Murica

Banned
#11
Jul 21, 2019
58
14
8
35
Murica
#11
Oh yea for sure you can. Jesus even said that many will say to him "Lord, Lord" and he will tell them to go to hell. Paraphrasing of course. Praise Jesus, no one can fool the Holy Spirit of the Living God.
 
I-Am-Murica

I-Am-Murica

Banned
#13
Jul 21, 2019
58
14
8
35
Murica
#13
calibob said:
Alcoholics Anonymous calls it the spiritual experience of the educational variety.
Click to expand...
Man that's a fantastic meme/picture thingy. I like that, thanks for sharing that. Praise God all the earth he will deal justly giving everyone what they deserve.

killingthebeast.jpg
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#14
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#14
Guojing said:
I didn't know he is in the list, is there even such a list of who are these preachers in this forum?
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a list. I am going by their teaching, how they buddy up to each other and the same crowd who follows and defends them. Sort of like the old adage, "Birds of a feather flock together".
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#17
#17
I-Am-Murica said:
God will give all believers what they deserve I hope, praise Jesus!
Click to expand...
Hi Murica, the word " believer" is a mistranslation of the Greek word pisteuo. If our Faith is only " believing" in what Jesus did and said, that is the like warm status Christ warns us of.

The mistranslation caused the correct object of Faith,( Christ Himself a real living person) to His word and the promises in His word.

Pisteuo is a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidence.

The Vine Greek dictionary defines pisteuo as " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

The only act of faithing that saves is a Continually surrendered life.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#18
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#18
The word "lukewarm" is not referring to those who are vitally connected to Christ (the Source), but of those who "come in His name" but who do not possess HIS LIFE.

Recall, "the churchES" [Rev2-3; made up of both believers/saints and those not saved] is not identical to saying "the Church which is His body" [made up of ONLY believers/saints/the saved (of "this present age [singular]," I might add ;) )]
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#19
#19
TheDivineWatermark said:
The word "lukewarm" is not referring to those who are vitally connected to Christ (the Source), but of those who "come in His name" but who do not possess HIS LIFE.

Recall, "the churchES" [Rev2-3; made up of both believers/saints and those not saved] is not identical to saying "the Church which is His body" [made up of ONLY believers/saints/the saved (of "this present age [singular]," I might add ;) )]
Click to expand...
Correct!
If the called don't fulfill pisteuo correctly, their never connected to the source. They just think they are.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#20
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#20
I-Am-Murica said:
God will give all believers what they deserve I hope, praise Jesus!
Click to expand...
But what does the Scripture say?...

Luke 17:7-10 (NASB) "Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'? "But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'? "He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Our deserts will come by His grace, not by our worthiness. We really don't want what we really deserve do we?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.