Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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I think a balance here is very necessary:
even who say that we need works, they don't think that works are giving us salvation. Everyone knows it is not that way; no matter how many good works we do, we are not buying salvation;
in the other side, people who think that is only grace must understand that everybody knows that, even if we talk about works ... but Bible talk about works, about LOVE for instance. Can anyone say that if somebody has all the faith of the world and have not love is already saved?
1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
I can see some people in here full of hate to others persons in CC ... but they call themself saved. LOVE is a must; it is mandatory ... and it is a WORK you must do to be saved.
even who say that we need works, they don't think that works are giving us salvation. Everyone knows it is not that way; no matter how many good works we do, we are not buying salvation;
in the other side, people who think that is only grace must understand that everybody knows that, even if we talk about works ... but Bible talk about works, about LOVE for instance. Can anyone say that if somebody has all the faith of the world and have not love is already saved?
1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
I can see some people in here full of hate to others persons in CC ... but they call themself saved. LOVE is a must; it is mandatory ... and it is a WORK you must do to be saved.
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Hi Nat, which is which do you really believe? Your post above seems to show an inconsistency to which EG is telling you that faith produces good works. Good works of men are good but that is not the basis of possessing salvation. Salvation is done by Christ, now receive through faith alone in Christ. The good works will follow after in such case, the righteous shall live by faith that produces good works.
Romans 1:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 1:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
E
No one talks against works my friend
What people are against is those who claims works are required to
1. Get saved
2. Keep saved
3. Prevent us from losing salvation.
You want to talk about works. Count me in, Works produce fruit, and draw people to christ. I am all vfor works.
But self righteousness, I am against as are many people here
What people are against is those who claims works are required to
1. Get saved
2. Keep saved
3. Prevent us from losing salvation.
You want to talk about works. Count me in, Works produce fruit, and draw people to christ. I am all vfor works.
But self righteousness, I am against as are many people here
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Hi Eli I dont believe in works alone for salvation. But faith that produces good works.
*Good works are things God commands us to do in the bible e.g love others, you are correct.
Ephesians 6:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise
Luke 6:27-36 New International Version (NIV)
Love for Enemies
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Mark 16:15
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Colossians 3:12
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Galatians 6:10
So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.
1 John 3:18
Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
Philippians 2:1-30
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, ...
Ephesians 4:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
THESE ARE GOOD WORKS for the GLORY of God. Faith without these works for God "is dead"
*Good works are things God commands us to do in the bible e.g love others, you are correct.
Ephesians 6:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise
Luke 6:27-36 New International Version (NIV)
Love for Enemies
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
Mark 16:15
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Colossians 3:12
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Galatians 6:10
So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.
1 John 3:18
Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
Philippians 2:1-30
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, ...
Ephesians 4:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
THESE ARE GOOD WORKS for the GLORY of God. Faith without these works for God "is dead"
Passive faith is dead faith, faith with no consequences of salvation
Active faith, faith with works, is faith in Christ Jesus and His way.
The problem with the language spoken by gnostics is they define everything
differently and speak to their view of the heart and spirit not to Gods creation and
His intent.
What becomes confusing is they change their meanings as it is not found in truth
or scripture it becomes quite fluid, and can appear even to be christian.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, joy, patience, peace, self control.
Out of this place comes the energy to help others, to heal and build things up
for the glory of Christ.
What you will read is the constant battle against the self righteous and their evil,
but they attack Gods work in peoples heart and walking in Jesus's ways and preaching
repentance from evil and walking in righteousness and good works.
Make no mistake it is not my battle, it is theirs which they openly declare and stand on.
But our defence is simply prayer, praise and worship, which they do not know, because
the Holy Spirit is not part of this battle they wage.
God bless you all.
Active faith, faith with works, is faith in Christ Jesus and His way.
The problem with the language spoken by gnostics is they define everything
differently and speak to their view of the heart and spirit not to Gods creation and
His intent.
What becomes confusing is they change their meanings as it is not found in truth
or scripture it becomes quite fluid, and can appear even to be christian.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, joy, patience, peace, self control.
Out of this place comes the energy to help others, to heal and build things up
for the glory of Christ.
What you will read is the constant battle against the self righteous and their evil,
but they attack Gods work in peoples heart and walking in Jesus's ways and preaching
repentance from evil and walking in righteousness and good works.
Make no mistake it is not my battle, it is theirs which they openly declare and stand on.
But our defence is simply prayer, praise and worship, which they do not know, because
the Holy Spirit is not part of this battle they wage.
God bless you all.
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What I find interesting is that assume or say we can lose our salvation can get it back.
How to get it back.
The prodical son.
Luke 15:18-19
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.” ’
He repented and was therefore saved again.
Yet this is how we lose it.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Yet Hebrews says if they fall away it's impossible to renew them again to repentance.
A few on here have quoted Luke & Hebrews to make their point.
The fact is that you cannot use the prodical son and the passage in Hebrews to make a point.
If we can lose our salvation by falling away we cannot be restored to salvation according to Hebrews. Therefore the prodical parable is irrelevant.
How to get it back.
The prodical son.
Luke 15:18-19
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.” ’
He repented and was therefore saved again.
Yet this is how we lose it.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Yet Hebrews says if they fall away it's impossible to renew them again to repentance.
A few on here have quoted Luke & Hebrews to make their point.
The fact is that you cannot use the prodical son and the passage in Hebrews to make a point.
If we can lose our salvation by falling away we cannot be restored to salvation according to Hebrews. Therefore the prodical parable is irrelevant.
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Hi Bill,
At least you are taking this subject seriously. This is a difficult point.
The prodigal son is based around israel and being born into the people of God.
Hebrews is talking about someone mature in Christ, knowing the fullness of the Holy Spirit and then
walking away.
My experience of people who fall away, is they are immature and barely know the realities of Christ.
Falling away often is a reality check about what is important to them and realising they are playing
at being a believer. Often when they return, it is because they want to, and the truths have become
profound and deeper in their hearts.
So I think on this basis both passages fit.
And those who truly walk away are rarer than we might imagine.
Our bigger issue is people who dabble in faith and compromise with sin and sinful lifestyles.
At least you are taking this subject seriously. This is a difficult point.
The prodigal son is based around israel and being born into the people of God.
Hebrews is talking about someone mature in Christ, knowing the fullness of the Holy Spirit and then
walking away.
My experience of people who fall away, is they are immature and barely know the realities of Christ.
Falling away often is a reality check about what is important to them and realising they are playing
at being a believer. Often when they return, it is because they want to, and the truths have become
profound and deeper in their hearts.
So I think on this basis both passages fit.
And those who truly walk away are rarer than we might imagine.
Our bigger issue is people who dabble in faith and compromise with sin and sinful lifestyles.
E
James 2:14-26 New
Faith without works is dead.
King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
What are works talking about?
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
In order to have faith with works, we need help our brother or sister, who is hungry..
By doing this (WORK) we are OBEYING this commandment.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
So feeding your brother and sisters in Christ shows our faith is real. And our love for God is real.
Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”
John 14:21
Whoever has (my commandments) and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
This is one of Gods commandant's.
John 13:34-35
A (new commandment) I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
Faith without works is dead.
King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
What are works talking about?
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
In order to have faith with works, we need help our brother or sister, who is hungry..
By doing this (WORK) we are OBEYING this commandment.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
So feeding your brother and sisters in Christ shows our faith is real. And our love for God is real.
Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”
John 14:21
Whoever has (my commandments) and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
This is one of Gods commandant's.
John 13:34-35
A (new commandment) I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
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E
The context of james is those who CLAI to have faith, they are in james words. Hearers of the word only and not doers. People who do the things you showed are hearers only and not doers. They go to church, but they have NO WORKS.
Once again.
Can you tell us the NUMBER of works james meant when he said HAS NO WORKS?
Also. Can you tell me whay James said CLAIMS to have faith. And did not say they EVER HAD faith?
Once again.
Can you tell us the NUMBER of works james meant when he said HAS NO WORKS?
Also. Can you tell me whay James said CLAIMS to have faith. And did not say they EVER HAD faith?